Yet another no crank no start topic

[Skullcandy365]

Good evening all...I searched and read through post after post to soak up as much info as I can and still can't get my Saturn up and running again so I'm hoping for a little assistance. She's a 1999 sw with an automatic transmission right around 150,000 miles that I bought not too long ago. Has given me no trouble at all until I came out from work this past Wednesday when she wouldn't start up. Turn the key and nothing, no cranking no attempt to start up at all. Everything else works from headlights to radio to door chine. I can hear the fuel pump when I twist the key but not even a click from the starter. Battery is new and I checked the battery connections multiple times to be sure nothing was loose. Tried to jump start her and nothing. Battery is fully charged, had it tested to be certain. Starter will crank if I run a wire from the positive battery terminal to the purple wire on the starter solenoid. I swapped out the ignition switch with a new one after trying everything else thinking that had to be the issue and still nothing. Can't find any loose wiring either. I also tried bypassing the rke just to rule it out. Still nothing. I even checked the interior fuse box and there is no burning or melting around the f5 or any of the others for that matter. What I noticed that was different from many posts was that after trying to diagnose the issue now the battery light and the oil lamp light have come on. They just came on after 3 days of trying to determine the problem. Neither was on before the no crank no start. Where should I start looking next? In the past every no crank situation I've had with other cars its been battery, starter or ignition switch. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[fdryer]

Does your remote work? My guess is either the RKE module or the STARTER RELAY is faulty, preventing the starter from operating when turning the igniting switch. Under the steering column area is a harness with a taped up relay. This starter relay is your anti theft system to prevent starter operation, requiring remote use to unlock doors and enable this relay. When this relay is enabled (powered up), the starting circuit is allowed to send 12v to the starter. Regardless of remote operation with the rke module, you can remove this relay and bypass it with one small jumper across the relay socket terminals 30 and 87 (use the relay pinouts as labeled on the relay). When bypassed, the ignition switch will send 12v to the starter when its turned to the start position. This bypass can be permanent by taping the jumper wire in place.

[Silverblu02SL2]

"What I noticed that was different from many posts was that after trying to diagnose the issue now the battery light and the oil lamp light have come on."

This happened with the key off? For the battery light, this usually indicates a shorted diode in the alternator. No idea why your oil lamp also came on with key off.

[alordofchaos]

Not familiar with auto trans cars, but I think there is also a gear selector switch that can go bad and cause a no start condition. Car will only start if selector is in Park or Neutral, bad switch means car does not think it is in P or N.

Take this with a grain of salt and do more research, as I know beans about auto trans Saturns. Good luck.

[Skullcandy365]

I never got the remote when I bought the car so I can't verify if it works or ever worked. I did try jumping pins 30 and 87 but still the same result. I used 3 different wires just to make sure size wasn't an issue.

The battery light and oil lamp light come on now when the ignition is turned to "on".

I forgot to mention that in the initial post too, I tried in park and in neutral ad well. Still nothing.

[fdryer]

You're left with two possibilities - a worn out starter or the purple START wire isn't getting 12v when the ignition switch is turned to the START position.

[alordofchaos]

^ ^ ^ OP can get the starter going with a direct jump to the starter, so probably second issue, power, mentioned

Originally Posted by Skullcandy365

I forgot to mention that in the initial post too, I tried in park and in neutral ad well. Still nothing.

Right, but with a bad switch, the car does not know it is in N or P.

Do you have a code reader? a couple of threads that explain more

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132613

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=174303

[Silverblu02SL2]

Originally Posted by Skullcandy365

.................................................. ......................

The battery light and oil lamp light come on now when the ignition is turned to "on".

...........................

Normal behavior, probably unrelated to your starting problem. It is part of the bulb test when the key is turned to the 'on" position before starting.

[Skullcandy365]

Is there a way to bypass the neutral safety switch? From what I’ve been reading jumping the 2 pins of the nss should bypass but I’m not 100% on that yet. It says to use a 10 amp fuse between the two pins.

I was hoping the lights coming on was just routine but I hadn’t noticed it happening any other times prior trying to get it started. Had me worried I had more then one issue going on.

[fdryer]

To isolate this problem, there are several ways to find the fault. One way is to measure the purple Start wire (disconnected from starter for safety) for 12v when the ignition switch is turned to the START position - 12v should be on this wire only when starting. If you can read wiring diagrams, you can see the electrical path from ign switch crank position to STARTER RELAY to clutch start switch (only for manual xmission) to the underhood fuse box (UHFB) to the PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION (PNP) switch (automatics only) to the starter terminal. As long as the ign switch is held in start position, 12v should be on the purple wire. No voltage suggests a wiring issue in the starting circuit. If 12v is on this wire every time the ign switch is held in start position, the starter is faulty.

Other methods to isolate a starting problem is either bypassing the STARTER RELAY or pnp switch. If no start occurs or intermittent starting occurs, the switches aren't at fault and the starter is worn out.

All testing presumes battery is fully charged, both battery cables are clean and free of corrosion, chassis and engine grounds are clean, free of corrosion and all connections are secured.

[Silverblu02SL2]

I had a no crank no click episode with symptoms very similar to yours http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=236469 , that happened on a very cold day. It's been fine ever since cleaning and tightening the 8 mm and 13 mm nuts/ terminals on the starter motor. I also inspected and cleaned all the engine/ chassis grounds.

If you are going to tighten those nuts, remove battery negative terminal first ,which will erase all codes and make all emissions readiness Incomplete. Do not over tighten those nuts or you risk breaking the plastic on the solenoid. They just need to be snug enough for a good electrical connection and not loosen from vibration. Mine were very loose, just a little beyond finger tight.

[billr]

Yes, jumpering the 2-pin harness connector to the trans range switch will bypass the NSS.

[supersampson12]

does anyone know the location of the starter relay? i have the same issue. no crank, no start.

[Waiex191]

It's on the starter.

[Skullcandy365]

I didn't check the purple wire who'll disconnected from the started solenoid so I'll give that a shot as well as bypassing the nss to see if I get anywhere with it. Thanks for all the help so far. I'll update once I've checked.

[Silverblu02SL2]

Originally Posted by Waiex191

It's on the starter.

The starter solenoid is on the starter. Starter relay is in the under hood fuse panel near the battery on my 02 SL2.

[Silverblu02SL2]

Originally Posted by Skullcandy365

I didn't check the purple wire who'll disconnected from the started solenoid so I'll give that a shot as well as bypassing the nss to see if I get anywhere with it. Thanks for all the help so far. I'll update once I've checked.

If you are going to check for voltage on the purple wire with a digital volt meter, I would suggest leaving it connected to the solenoid. If the purple wire is disconnected while measuring, you may get a good V reading even though there may be issues with the circuit because of the high impedance input of the DVM.

You should get close to 12 V with purple wire connected to the solenoid (with ground lead of your DVM connected to the starter case as a ground).

[fdryer]

^ ^ ^ SPOILER ALERT!? ^ ^ ^

Anyone measuring the 'S' start wire on the starter may inadvertently find themselves under the engine when it suddenly starts up.......

The safest way to measure voltage on the start wire connected to the starter; remove the start wire from the starter solenoid or ensure the ignition switch is OFF.

[billr]

Even safer is taking it to a shop and leaving whatever money is required.

As pointed out before, reading voltage on the PPL wire is inconclusive if it isn't connected to the load (solenoid).

But why are we even wondering if the voltage there is correct? The OP has already found that jumpering that terminal to the battery term forces cranking; we already know the PPL wire circuit is inop and the starter is OK.