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Old 05-25-2022, 01:57 PM   #1
Roerocks
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Default 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Gotta 03 vue awd v6 can anyone tell me if it is possible to bypass this pain in my tush thedt deterrent remote start keyless entry nightmare? Or is it known if i can just install a new system all together? My remote works but not on my vehicle cant find anywhere on dball or 4x05 websites how to program installed one correctly scared to try. Help any advise is good advise ~Rhonda
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Old 05-29-2022, 11:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

To program the remote you need a scantool. Not sure if aftermarket scan tools will work, which means a trip to the dealer.
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Old 05-30-2022, 01:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Roerocks, are you describing an aftermarket DBALL remote start system that piggybacks onto Saturns factory Passlock anti theft system? DBALL has its own remote apart from your Vue having its remote.

I have an older aftermarket DEI remote start on my L300. The installer programmed the DEI to use the factory Saturn remotes for remote starting so I don't carry two remotes (one for Saturn, the other for remote starting).
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Old 08-11-2022, 04:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

I dont think i explained myself very well i wad trying to make a very long story short and didnt succeed. Heres my issue its not the remote. My car died due to bad alternator put new one in wouldnt crank or start got new battery would crank but not start changed ignition assembly and all its glory started oh wait after battery i changed crank shaft position sensor started but would randomly die after security light would flash 4 times learned about a keyless entry i didnt know i had so did relearn it worked for about a day. Now heres where it gets tricky i made the mistake of assuming someone had the knowledge without verifying it to be so and allowed them to help figure this car out. They unplugged all my boxes which one of them i think its the directed 4x05 remote start unit and they did not to it in the proper order which didnt know there was one on unplugging it until my car went back to crank no start status. I didnt know what else to do so i came across a video on youtube that explained sort of what to do to remove the system. So thats what i did i removed all three boxes ( will get back to the third one in a sec) and rewired the ignition back to factory and held my breathe and ill be a monkeys uncle it started first try but now i have a super unsafe car and its scary i can be driving anywhere on the road highway back roads up hill down hill it doesnt matter it will cut off and stall while im driving. If im going fast enough when the security light on dash stops blinking after it stalls i can push the gas and it will keep going but if not i pop it in neutral and it starts right back up. Almost got smashed by a semi truck yesterday because i pulled onto the road woth plenty of room so i thought but my car stalled in the middle of the busy road. So i think i forgot to wire something or i dont eeally know honestly im a honda girl this is very foreign to me literally as well lol. Now to the third device. I was looking at the pile of wires and boxes last night thinking about putting the system back in and pumched in the fcc id # to find out what it's functions are and it is a tracking gps device and it hooks to the stsrter immobilizer. Ran my vin on this great ap called scan this car and come to find out my car is classified as a fleet car but cant find any info on this device. Any help with my huge debacle would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

If I'm not mistaken, your aftermarket immobilizer is a GPS tracking device designed to immobilize the vehicle. Furthermore, is this device used by new/used car dealers as a way to fight deadbeat owners not keeping up with monthly payments on a vehicle loan?

Whatever was done to remove this immobilizer and allow everyday starting/driving seems to work and now points to other issues with random engine die off. Is that correct? If yes then there are some questions that may help narrow this problem down to a few areas.

Mileage, maintenance done, parts replaced? Be as descriptive as you want whether long or short descriptions. A basic description of GMs Passlock anti theft system follows.

The factory remotes are dual purpose devices; Lock and enable Passlock security wth a blinking yellow indicator (vehicle symbol with a large padlock), Unlock and disable Passlock with security turned off. If a theft attempt is made or inadvertently manually opening a door with security enabled, a few seconds will pass to allow entry and inserting the ignition key and turning it to the ON/RUN position to disable security and allow starting/driving. If not done in time, security initiates horns, flashing lights and activates Passlock with a flashing security indicator. Turning the ignition key to ON/RUN position usually disables security for normal starting. Flashing security means the injectors are disabled to prevent engine running. Using the remote to Unlock disables the factory alarm and Passlock system to allow starting/driving. If something in the security system fails internal self checks each time security is enabled/disabled, Passlock will disable itself and turn on security (no blinking or flashing) to alert you of a failure of Passlock. This will not interfere with everyday starting/driving.

You may have one or two problems related to either factory security or engine running issues that randomly kills the engine, having nothing to do with factory security or the GPS immobilizer. The descriptions of GMs Passlock security is from GMs service manuals, not hearsay, rumors or word of mouth. Take your time reviewing info and reply any way you feel comfortable. Saturnfans has a wealth of free information second to none insofar as public message boards. The only other source of accurate info would be a trusted repair shop, mobile tech or online access to either alldata.diy or Mitchell for a reasonable fee. Many diyers with skills, tools and time use these two sources of service manual info to save money on repairs.
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

I cant believe i have to start all over again i pushed the nack button and just deleted my entire post okay so hopefully i dont leave anything out im gonna try and get through this again excuse any spelling errors. So mileage is at 174976 the oil change is way past due but have been dealing with this problem since last November so the oil change is last on the list.

The parts that i have replaced are as follows:
Alternator
Battery & terminal connectors
Crank shaft position sensor
Both turn signal and wiper levers (dont ask about that one)
Ignition assembly which includes lock cylinder and switch (relearn done successfully)
Throttle pedal position sensor

When my car stalls the security light flashes and if im going fast enough when its done flashing i can push the gas and off she goes if not then i have to put in park or neutral and it starts right up unless when o go to restart it the light is still flashing it will only crank no start if its solid like with regular starting it starts first crank everytime i have noticed a sort of pattern that goes like this

First stall after light stops flashing goes again right away second stall stops flashing and tries to go but stalls again that is when it dies and i have to restart it but if light is flashing when i try to restart it wont and i turm the key off turn it to on of flashing i turn key to off and back to on and it os solid then will start. I think either my ignition is somehow still messed up cause my key falls out all the time but doesnt stall right when it does or the bcm isnt getting the signal ot needs from the security system that is no longer there while driving and turning the fuel off. There is a sort of big clunk from the engine when it stalls which is very worrisome to me. Another thing is i added oil the other day and now my oil pressure light is on and is only off when the car is cold. My obd2 is also throwing a P1780 code which is some safety check not complete when in the run position for an 2003 saturn vue have no idea what that means but no other codes are present.

Hope i remembered everything ~Rhonda
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Old 09-15-2022, 02:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Re-read post #5's last two paragraphs about Passlock security. For whatever reason, Passlock security flashing at the moment the engine dies while driving appears to indicate Passlock disabling injectors (flashing security indicator). There's no explanation why this occurs in service manuals. In real world conditions, some problems may need careful thought to diagnose and troubleshoot unusual problems.

There are two parts to the ignition hardware on the steering column; the electrical ignition switch to power up everything (with an embedded resistor for the factory security system) and the mechanical lock cylinder for the ignition key to fit into. A worn out lock cylinder with the key falling out isn't creating this intermittent problem but..... if the lock cylinder (keyed to mate with the ign switch) turns enough from wear and tear, it may turn the ignition switch off momentarily then switch back on with security confused. Confused, Passlock may react by determining a theft attempt being made so the body control module containing the Passlock program sends a signal to the ecm to disable injector operation, killing the engine and flash the security indicator, all while you're driving. A very loose lock cylinder may rotate just enough with the ign switch to momentarily turn off ignition then turn it back on, creating your problem. The repair may be simply replacing the ignition lock cylinder or replacing the worn out key (use the spare one that doesn't fall out). Also, a key ring with many keys and other things creating a heavy weight can result in premature wear on the lock cylinder. Having separate key rings to reduce/eliminate ignition key weight can help eliminate problems.

The ignition switch and lock cylinder mate together so they turn together. Passlock security detects the lock cylinder rotation with several magnets and sensors while simultaneously measuring the embedded resistor in the ign switch to fulfill security checks before allowing startup.
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Old 09-16-2022, 09:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

So if the cylinder is the origonal with original key and the switch is new will that cause a miscommunication intimately thinking and putting car in limp mode as it were being stolen? Will relearn solve that problem? Or do i need to get a new cylinder new key install do relearn and go from there? Thank you for being so patient with me and all your help what i wouldnt do for your knowledge right now im at the end of my rope and am exhausted thanks again looking forward to your answer
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Old 09-16-2022, 09:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Now as i read over post #5 last two paragraphs it has occured to me that i seem to be handling this like i still have the horrible dbalk2 4x05 and the tracking device starter immobilizer still connected to the car and hope that i did make it clear to whomever reads amd helps me with my post understands that but looking back i can see i wasn't real clear. I removed all units rewired ignition back tp factory operation. Sorry for any misunderstanding if there were any~Rhonda
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Old 09-16-2022, 09:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

One more thing i forgot to mention not sure if it is related but my cruise control has stopped working. Weird
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Old 09-17-2022, 01:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roerocks View Post
So if the cylinder is the origonal with original key and the switch is new will that cause a miscommunication intimately thinking and putting car in limp mode as it were being stolen? Will relearn solve that problem? Or do i need to get a new cylinder new key install do relearn and go from there? Thank you for being so patient with me and all your help what i wouldnt do for your knowledge right now im at the end of my rope and am exhausted thanks again looking forward to your answer
You're not alone with mystery problems that may or may not be related to factory security. As it is, a new lock cylinder and ignition switch requires the three, 10 minute ignition ON cycles to 'marry' the embedded resistor voltage value in the ignition switch to GMs Passlock program in the body control module (BCM). This procedure is described in service manuals as a relearn procedure; dealers using their GM scantool only need a ten minute procedure. Diyers without GMs scantool need to perform three, 10 minute cycles of leaving the ignition switch on (engine off) then cycling ign off and repeating two more times. On the fourth cycle of turning on ignition, the bcm learns the resistor voltage value into memory. The security indicator should be off during starting.

To help you understand some things about GM security, the lock cylinder holding the ignition key is detected when rotation occurs by several magnetic sensors. At the same time, a voltage is measured from the resistor in the ignition switch. The two signals are sent to the bcm as part of factory security. The bcm examines both signals and if they're valid, it sends a signal to the engine computer to allow injector operation for normal engine operation. If one of the signals isn't correct, the bcm sends a signal to the ecm to disable injector operation preventing engine running and turn on the security light by flashing it to inform the driver of a theft attempt. Try performing a relearn procedure as described.

Limp mode only occurs with electronic drive by wire systems; electronic pedal and electric throttle. Your Vue uses this dbw system. You're not in limp mode because you haven't mentioned seeing the reduced power indicator, either as 'REDUCED POWER' or a yellow engine symbol with a large down arrow. Reduced power/limp mode, occurs if one of four sensors (two in throttle, two in pedal) fails or sends incorrect signals to the ecm. This is a safety issue to prevent any chances of a runaway engine by limiting engine power to around 15%, enough to move off highway or street to a safe spot to make the emergency call.

Electronic fuel injection systems, factory immobilizer/security and more electronics in vehicles are not diy friendly when diagnosing and troubleshooting them. It's no different from older vehicles without electronics as older non EFI engines still requires knowledge of carburetors and distributor ignition. Virtually every vehicle using EFI, factory security and other electronics requires knowlege of how engines run, advanced electronics, knowledge of computer programs, EFI systems, factory security and how control modules operate (mini computers like the pecm/ecm, bcm, tcm, airbag and abs).

Cruise control is a sub program in the ecm. If a problem occurs with engine running, the ecm disables cc until normal engine running returns.
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Old 09-18-2022, 07:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Thank you for your response it is much appreciated. I am very familiar with the relearn process i will do another after i put the new cylinder in of course. Please excuse my blunder of using the wrong terminology for my car being in limp mode instead of theft mode i do know the difference when it threw the throttle pedal position sensor code is when it went into limp mode. And yes you are correct basic knowledge is a plus and for the most part i think i get the jist of it me being a DIY'er and all. Im not one by choice believe me I am a 52 year old single woman that is on disability because at the young age of 42 had a heart attack and again at 47 because i was born with an autoimmune disease that attacks my vital organs has put me in chronic renal failure as well so i cant do much in the way of "traditional" employment so you see at 806.00 a month i cant afford not to be a DIY'er. What i cant figure out on my own i go looking for answers in places like this forum. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond but i guess its just time to move on and try to find someone that really has the answers and willing to help. Blessed be ~Rhonda
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Old 09-18-2022, 04:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: 03 vue dball2 w/ 4x05

Rhonda, I think you're more than a casual diyer, being forced out of necessity with a major health issue and fixed(?) income. I try not to be condescending (I rarely use the word in conversation or writings and its not in my single cell between my ears) as strangers seem to presume when I present info as succinct as possible, free of any bias towards anyone in these forums to provide as much technical info possible to help in decision making.

If the first replacement lock cylinder is new and ignition key fits perfectly, doesn't fall out when driving and you don't have more keys and other things hanging from the ignition key ring weighing it down to create premature wear on the lock cylinder, I wouldn't replace it.

Hopefully this mystery problem is resolved. I think Saturnfans is second to none against other Saturn forums, sharing info to owners without having to go to a dealer or repair shop if problems are within each one's ability to maintain their vehicle at the lowest possible cost. Friends and acquaintances are other sources of help for brainstorming and help.
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