SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2013, 04:02 AM   #1
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Question 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Brakes work fine but ABS stays on and I checked 10 amp fuse under the hood.

What else should I check?
is this a common problem for this year and model?

which part is most common to fail? for ABS light to stay on?

Can I continue to drive it with ABS light on or its risky?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 12-29-2013, 03:14 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,317
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

1-Its not a "common" problem for any car to have ABS failure. If your brakes work then its safe to continue driving. If you are concerned, remove the ABS fuse; the light should turn OFF - you already lost ABS function and the fuse simply removes power to the ABS electronics that turned on the indicator. You have time to determine how to handle this problem. Removing the ABS fuse does not disable brakes, period.

2-When the ABS light turns on and stays ON it means ABS has detected a fault and automatically disables ABS. This does not mean brake failure. Since you haven't crashed or noticed anything unusual with braking other than the idiot light staying ON, you verified your brakes are operating as designed as they always did before ABS was invented and became a standard with most cars. ABS remains invisible to everyday braking. You'll never need ABS except in emergency stopping from speeding well above the conditions necessary for safe stopping. And even when ABS is activated, it may not prevent the avoidable crash.

3-The usual issues with ABS failure are about external wiring to each wheel, damaged wheel reluctors (toothed rings), damaged sensors and broken/bent brackets. The DIY approach to troubleshooting would be crawling under the car to physically examine components. The ABS motor/electronics is well mounted in the engine area and last on the list to check. An ABS reader can tell which wheel is affected and point in the direction of failure.

Almost every driving situation will never require ABS activation. Speeding that results in sliding, lost traction, skidding with or without brakes or locking up brakes are situations when ABS intervenes and takes over braking duties to prevent a wheel from locking up also results in longer stopping distances unknown to those assuming their ABS enhanced brakes will stop in a shorter distance than regular brakes. All these yahoos find out is the expensive crash damage resulting in ignorance from unfamiliarity with situations when ABS is enabled. Speeding and closing in on another car is reducing the distance between cars when ABS is activated. This doesn't mean ABS will stop any better than regular braking, it just avoids the skidding that would occur. While ABS prevents wheel lock up, it can't do anything about closing speeds between the car out in front and the driver foolishly assuming ABS will stop before crashing into it. The videos demonstrating how much less distance ABS braking uses compared to non ABS brakes are all done in 1)dry conditions and 2)without another moving vehicle in front of the car with ABS that braked before the car with ABS reacted to braking. This little unknown fact was never fully revealed unless it was buried in all the discussions/forums and not brought up from the insurance industry. A presentation from an impartial news organization or science channel exploring the real world of driving would easily demonstrate the benefit/drawback of ABS and when its effective. It does not excuse anyone from learning how to drive safely and determine what speed is safe for the conditions to stop safely and never use the excuse that ABS will remove the responsibility of safely braking at speed.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 07:21 PM   #3
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Thanks a lot for detailed response.

I will temporarily remove abs 10 amp red fuse.

I will check all the points you suggested and will get back with you soon.
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 02:14 PM   #4
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Hi...I cheked both 10 amp fuse...(there are two abs fuse under hood box)

they both are ok...

interestingly even if I remove red fuses (10 amp) ...ABS light still remains on...what does it mean? does it give you a hint on where I should check?

and I forgot which one.....but when I remove one of the 10 amp abs fuse service soon light comes on(not check engine light) ....I don't remember whether it was top one of bottom 10 amp red fuse....
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 03:03 PM   #5
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,022
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Without a Tech II scan tool to read the ABS code(s) it's just guess work.

Could be as simple as a wheel sensor gummed up (probably front as the rears are integrated into the hub/bearing) or axle reluctor ring broken (even just 1 tooth, requiring a new axle) or wheel bearing (had a front one go that didn't make the normal noise but allowed enough movement to fubar ABS) or unplugged/broken wires.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 03:34 PM   #6
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Without a Tech II scan tool to read the ABS code(s) it's just guess work.

Could be as simple as a wheel sensor gummed up (probably front as the rears are integrated into the hub/bearing) or axle reluctor ring broken (even just 1 tooth, requiring a new axle) or wheel bearing (had a front one go that didn't make the normal noise but allowed enough movement to fubar ABS) or unplugged/broken wires.
If speed sensors are gummed up...will it give wrong speed on instrument cluster? speed guage on dash is working fine...does it mean that speed sensors are ok?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 03:50 PM   #7
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikasevan View Post
If speed sensors are gummed up...will it give wrong speed on instrument cluster? speed guage on dash is working fine...does it mean that speed sensors are ok?
No. Speedometer is based on the vehicle speed sensor on the tranny.

Does the ABS light go of while you're sitting parked with the engine running? And then go on when you start moving? That would def. point the finger at a wheel sensor and/or the wiring to one of the wheel sensors.
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 03:53 PM   #8
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
No. Speedometer is based on the vehicle speed sensor on the tranny.

Does the ABS light go of while you're sitting parked with the engine running? And then go on when you start moving? That would def. point the finger at a wheel sensor and/or the wiring to one of the wheel sensors.
No ABS light does not go off irrelevant either parked or driving ....even after removal of fuses it does not go off..
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 04:23 PM   #9
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,022
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

So it stays on, after starting the engine and you haven't moved yet? To me, that eliminates the wheel sensors (they're only for ABS and TC, the speed sensor is in/on the transmission) as a possibility.

Removing the fuse's would only result in the ABS light coming on because it's not working.
Leaves the ABS control module under the dash and the module that's attached to the master cylinder. If nothing's unplugged/loose going into the one on the MC then I'd take the dash cover off and wiggle the control module & related wiring.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 04:47 PM   #10
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
So it stays on, after starting the engine and you haven't moved yet? To me, that eliminates the wheel sensors (they're only for ABS and TC, the speed sensor is in/on the transmission) as a possibility.

Removing the fuse's would only result in the ABS light coming on because it's not working.
Leaves the ABS control module under the dash and the module that's attached to the master cylinder. If nothing's unplugged/loose going into the one on the MC then I'd take the dash cover off and wiggle the control module & related wiring.
Yes it stays on either without moving a single inch(parked) or while moving so you said it eliminates wheel sensors .....but what about speed sensor which is on transmission...any problem with speed sensor (vss) can cause this abs light staying on(I dont think so but making sure).

I will check those two modules and let you know...is it common for these modules to go bad or just wiring related to it?

also what about rear wheel sensors(they are not easy to see or clean) but can those sensors could cause this light to stay on?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 05:34 PM   #11
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,022
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

According to the '98 FSM I have there are nearly 96 codes from the ABS light. You really need to bring it to a GM dealer or some kind of service center with a Tech II or equivalent to have the codes read. After looking at a couple, it's not out of the question for the ABS ECM to have an internal fault or for the ABS modulator under the hood to have a fault.

You can use this guide: http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...99cluster.html
To get the cover off, then pull the foam noise barrier out and now you can see the PCM and ABS ECM. The PCM is on the left, the ABS ECM is on the right (both directly in front of the gauge cluster).
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 05:49 PM   #12
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
According to the '98 FSM I have there are nearly 96 codes from the ABS light. You really need to bring it to a GM dealer or some kind of service center with a Tech II or equivalent to have the codes read. After looking at a couple, it's not out of the question for the ABS ECM to have an internal fault or for the ABS modulator under the hood to have a fault.

You can use this guide:
To get the cover off, then pull the foam noise barrier out and now you can see the PCM and ABS ECM. The PCM is on the left, the ABS ECM is on the right (both directly in front of the gauge cluster).
Thanks for continuous help...
ABS control module under dash and PCM both are integrated in one unit...i.e. if we replace abs controller pcm is also replaced correct?
Blue connector is for ABS and other is for PCM correct?
do you think I should replace abs+pcm controller? under dash?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 06:35 PM   #13
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

The ABS controller is separate; it is obviously not an ECM.
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 06:53 PM   #14
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,022
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
The ABS controller is separate; it is obviously not an ECM.
ECM=Electronic Control Module, not Engine Control Module. The problem is, the FSM says the control module is on the brake master cylinder when in reality it's here on my desk.

Mine says part number 21023621; service number 21023371. 5x6" box.

It's not integrated into the PCM, it's the box to the right of the PCM.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ABS System Locations.jpg (121.7 KB, 18 views)
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

Last edited by fetchitfido; 01-05-2014 at 06:59 PM.
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 07:00 PM   #15
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

ECM = Engine Control Module. That it's electronic is implied. E is to distinguish it from TCM - tranny control module or PCM - powertrain control module.
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 07:01 PM   #16
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
ECM=Electronic Control Module, not Engine Control Module.
Mine says ABS Controller on it, part number 21023621; service number 21023371. 5x6" box.

It's not integrated into the PCM, it's the box to the right of the PCM.
Ok so my question is..one has to replace whole 5"x6" golden metal box correct?
you can not just replace only abs control module on it correct?
that metal box include ABS control module and power train control module both in it correct?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 07:18 PM   #17
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Without removing any thing i.e. dash etc...I could read number on that metal box which is 21023715 and I found this part no. of sites like eBay.

Before I order this part or pull from local wrecking yard. Is there anything else I should check?
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2014, 07:26 PM   #18
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,022
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Going by the eBay images, that is the ABS controller. Has nothing to do with the PCM (the larger box to the left of the ABS controller).

Without having the code checked I wouldn't blame any single piece. Any GM Dealer should be able to do it as well as a variability of mechanic shops & College's. It's only the sub $400 code readers/scanners that can't read it.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 12:51 AM   #19
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Going by the eBay images, that is the ABS controller. Has nothing to do with the PCM (the larger box to the left of the ABS controller).

Without having the code checked I wouldn't blame any single piece. Any GM Dealer should be able to do it as well as a variability of mechanic shops & College's. It's only the sub $400 code readers/scanners that can't read it.

I have ELM327 ..cheap bluetooth code reader and it does not give abs codes...can you suggest any other code reader which is cheap?

Also...in that metal box there are two wire connectors going in one with blue cap on it and other has is gray ....do you know what are those connectors for? I am thinking one connector is for ABS module and other connector is for?????

Because it has two separate connectors, I don't think that metal box has only abs module in it...I could be of course wrong ..
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 08:07 PM   #20
vikasevan
Member
vikasevan has a spectacular aura aboutvikasevan has a spectacular aura about
 
vikasevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lakewood WA
Posts: 397

2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 1998 saturn sc2 ...ABS light stays on

Well I could fix it...when I checked the rear wheels those wires were broken/scratched and I used a connectors to connect wires and crimp them and voila...abs light is gone...and traction system is stays active ...that is how normally it should. Thanks every one who tried to help.
vikasevan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
abs, abs light


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I have a 1997 Saturn SC2 - the ABS light stays on kim_lombard S-Series General 6 12-12-2019 07:01 PM
ABS Light / Battery Light Stays ON + starter issues 97 SL1 IanDorety S-Series General 3 08-25-2009 11:08 PM
SES light stays lit anchortanker S-Series General 2 04-07-2009 07:14 PM
Oil Light Stays On rockermikey S-Series Tech 4 06-21-2008 09:20 PM
1998 Saturn SL1 Service Engine Soon Light vimal_o_0 S-Series Tech 7 11-13-2007 03:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.