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Old 08-07-2012, 11:56 PM   #41
Chub
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

I will use some stills that I took from the richpin video to make it more clear. The first image that has numbers 1 and 2 on it is the one I want you to look at first. 1 is part of the low pressure line of the AC where the low pressure switch came from. On your car this may be close to the inside of the fender. 2 is the switch that was pulled out of the low pressure line, the metal thing with the socket labelled #1. You first need to pull out the switch, and then, do what is in the second picture (#3) to jump the switch. Just take a paper clip or small piece of metal like he did and wedge it into both terminals of the switch (#2) when the car is off. You do not need to have any other components disconnected from the AC system, like in the video, he showed what he was going to do without doing it, so it is only so helpful in regards to jumping the low pressure switch. Once you connect both terminals using the paper clip, turn the car on with the AC on the dashboard. If the compressor is still working fine, it will come on now and you will see the discs spinning. If the compressor still does not come on, even when the low pressure switch is jumped, there is another problem.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman1992 View Post
Alright, from 6:00 from that video where did he get that cord/switch from?

I have jumper cables and will do this, so turn the car on and the AC full with the ac button clicked down in dashboard. Find that cord, jump it with my hands see if the ac balls turn?

Should I stick the jumper cables in there before I turn the car on? Or what. I am still lost where the hell he pulled that cable from, lol.

Edit: Wait it's the pressure switch?

Edit again, wait he has the blue clutch unplugged from the a/c do I need to have that unplugged before I jump it?
You want to follow the entire A/C troubleshooting video, that is a way better text than many isolated pieces of suggestions. I could not find it but surprisingly it is still online.

To learn what is system fan, watch 2:25 of this video, richpin lifted out that fan, but you won't need to do so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-FQjlPrqrc

When you jump the low pressure switch, if the system fan kick on but the compressor remains off, then your compressor is very likely bad... Even a steel tweezer will jump that switch. Just follow richpins A/C troubleshooting video, and it is not rocket science.

BTW, do not let your compressor spin for more than a few seconds under jump, b/c compressor will be burnt dead when forced to work in an undercharged system.

Or if you do not want to jump that switch, simply grab some PLAIN r134a and a rig to charge the system. When the system is at proper charge, the low pressure switch is naturally "jumped". By PLAIN I mean the r134a should be pure r134a, WITHOUT ANY leak sealer in it. Any bottle saying "seals the leak" or similar is a monster

Shop for r134a at Walmart, Advance Auto, AutoZone or Pepboys. Avoid brands like InterDynamics (InterDynamics rigs are fine but all of their r134a contains some leak sealer).

Have your car ever suffered from any front impact? especially the driver side? Collision is the most common reason causing AC system to fail b/c physical damage to the AC pipes will discharge the system.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:23 AM   #43
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Alright, I am back! it's almost 10:00 PM here, I went out with a flash light!

I actually jumped them and the AC Balls spinned like mad! they might a quiet ZZZZ sound, so I automatically ran back into car and turned the ignition key off.

This is awesome! That felt so good, lol! I am so happy the voltage is going through! Damn that thing spins hella fast LOL better not touch it!!!


Okay enough happiness, now it's time to get to business.

@ AndreasChen, nope It's used though But we bought it used with like 20k miles, it only has 100k so far not that bad


Now, it says it takes 1.5 lbs of r134a... I shined a flash light on the ac, saw no leak. My mom said AC was never working since 40k miles. How much $ do you think it is to totally refill it up? I mean it has to be empty right? Because I don't want to over-charge it :O

I just want my damn mom to get some cool air when she driving to work, to damn hot in the states. I feel so bad for her >_<

Last edited by Newman1992; 08-08-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:09 AM   #44
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman1992 View Post
Alright, I am back! it's almost 10:00 PM here, I went out with a flash light!

I actually jumped them and the AC Balls spinned like mad! they might a quiet ZZZZ sound, so I automatically ran back into car and turned the ignition key off.

This is awesome! That felt so good, lol! I am so happy the voltage is going through! Damn that thing spins hella fast LOL better not touch it!!!


Okay enough happiness, now it's time to get to business.

@ AndreasChen, nope It's used though But we bought it used with like 20k miles, it only has 100k so far not that bad


Now, it says it takes 1.5 lbs of r134a... I shined a flash light on the ac, saw no leak. My mom said AC was never working since 40k miles. How much $ do you think it is to totally refill it up? I mean it has to be empty right? Because I don't want to over-charge it :O

I just want my damn mom to get some cool air when she driving to work, to damn hot in the states. I feel so bad for her >_<
Did you watch my video like I told you to do on the phone?
Saturn S-Series Air Conditioning Charging

It will tell you how much freon & where to get gauges from.
Give me a phone call today if you run into problems.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #45
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
Originally Posted by campus189 View Post
Did you watch my video like I told you to do on the phone?
Saturn S-Series Air Conditioning Charging

It will tell you how much freon & where to get gauges from.
Give me a phone call today if you run into problems.
Hey, yeah I bookmarked it! I will be watching it tomorrow, I think i'll go ahead and buy the 134a stuff. Do I have to use the sealer stuff like u showed in the first part? Does that seal stuff have 134A in it too? Just wondering because it says I need 1.5lb's of it and those cans are 12oz's each?

So was thinking... since my A/C is pretty much empty, Can I fill it up with 1 full 12OZ and like a half of the other can? Or do you think only 1 12oz would be good enough for the summer?

I know only buy the ones with the uv-dye too

Just wondering man, I will be doing this l8er tomorrow


I'll buy the o-rings too, it looks like on your video you took out the whole compressor? Do i need to remove the whole compressor to install the o-rings?

Why does everyone keep saying sealer stuff is bad? If I fix the leak with the new o-ring it shouldn't be a problem? The hell


http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...6CA_0006532958

How about this one?

Or this?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...508_0361100774

How would I use that one? It doesn't have a gauge meter, only reason why I am asking, it seems the ones with the gauge meters are very expensive >_< But I mean ... if I have to it's alot better then going to the dealer!

Last edited by Newman1992; 08-08-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:35 AM   #46
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

(Sorry it said I couldn't edit my post, sorry for double posting :P)

Edit, this one is perfect! only 15$ for 12oz?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...UVC_0006542066

How do I use it though? I mean I will fill the whole thing up with this can maybe, but do I just stick the top part of the can in the pressure (lower) hose, this one is dye too
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #47
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

$15/can is about the price. You may need one can or slightly more than that. For the first can you want UV dye, but for the second can you want plain R134a.

Once again: read every word on the can before you buy, so that you will not introduce any bit of leak sealer into your system. Leak sealer will kill every part of the system, and the cost of a DIY rebuild is around $1500, shop rebuild is around $4000. You watch out for your budget

You also need a good charging rig. http://idqusa.com/product/gbm-3cs/ looks like a good one to me for top-off purpose. However, before you hook up the rig to your low port, always purge the rig first. There is air in the rig, and will enter the AC line when you connect. AC do not like air. Before hooking your rig to the low port, turn on the rig valve a little bit, and let the tiny r134a flow push out as much air out of the rig, then you can hook up.

Last thing is about safety, r134a is liquid in the can, and will evaporate in less than a second when released. This will cause "cold burn" so never let the r134a blow onto your skin...
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Going to wal mart, buy plain 134a with gauge or hose.

12 OZ probably. (NO SEALANT AT ALL)

Go home, start up car, turn ac button on, turn to low fan, wait 1minutes, get my gloves on, put on safety glasses, unscrew the lower pressure hose, put the refrigerant hose on, release nozzle a bit, shake can, fill it up with all 12oz, then hopefully while doing this the ac/compressor will kick in?
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

You DO NOT need to remove the entire ac compressor!!
I did that in the video, cause i have about 10-15 on the shelf,lol
No need to buy seals if you don't know for sure if it needs them.
Oldnuc had a post somewhere about the o rings having to be special or something like that.
I just use o rings made JUST fir air conditioning.
Hopefully he will chime in here.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:28 AM   #50
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Okay guys!!! Campus has helped me over the phone, awesome dude. Give 70% props to him, and 20% to AndreasChen for helping and 10% to this thread!


I recharged it with some 134A (I actually tried to charge at without the car on for about 20minutes and i kept holding the gauage down a little bit to hear a little "Hissing" noise, I thought that meant that the fluid was going in! LOL Well guess not, i was out for 20minutes like the hell??? So I called up campus and he told holy cow bro turn on the car and the a/c! so I was like oh okay man, musta forgot. LOL

So I was charging it for about 10 minutes, I hit 45 PSI and campus told me that was a safe one to measure at and stay, It actually wouldn't go anyhigher, (Heavin forbid I didn't over-charge it) I prob would have it I kept going at it, but my extinct told me to stop at 45 PSI because Campus's video said that, well nothing else was coming out of the can anyway, there is still less than 1 quarter of a 12oz of the can left? Prob 3oz's? I can still save this can for the future right? Where is a good place to store the refrigant? Outside in the shed?

Anyways, I first thought it wasn't blowing cold air cuz I was just idling and warm air was coming out. So I was like wt the hell? So I go drive around the block hit 3k RPM's and BAM my face is completely slammed with cold air. THis is awesome, my mom will be so happy. I made sure the dust lid is tight and everything on the lower pressure, I am very happy.

Reusable Gauge @ Wal mart, 17.99$
12oz 134A (NO SEALANT) @ Wal mart 9.99

Total: Around 27 bucks, prob 10$ a year if I have a small leak right? WAY better than paying 3 digit numbers at the dealer AND NO I did not use "Seal" crap or anything, just straight 134a like I was told. (Could of used Dye if I want to fix leak) But no need right now, maybe in the future.

Just wanted to say thanks everything in this thread, IM about to make mom around the block and show her, she is going to be so happy. This is awesome, Kudos to everyone, Especially Campus for live tech support, this is awesome!

Added reputation to everyones posts who helped.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:11 AM   #51
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

First: congratulations!

Second: it sounds to me in your PM that you have an overcharged system. Try whatever way to get a manifold gauge, and go through this testing process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9yv0euT7xA
Overcharged AC system could be safety hazard.

Third: Your AC blows cold only when driving. It sounds to me like your system fan (not cabin fan / blow motor) is not working right. Have that tested and taken care of asap. System fan does not only affect your AC but it is about your entire cooling system and engine.
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Last edited by AndreasChen; 08-09-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:13 PM   #52
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
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Third: Your AC blows cold only when driving. It sounds to me like your system fan (not cabin fan / blow motor) is not working right. Have that tested and taken care of asap. System fan does not only affect your AC but it is about your entire cooling system and engine.
Its also a very common sign for an undercharged system. An undercharged system will blow cold at higher RPMs. Without knowing the top side numbers it difficult to determine.

I may have missed it but did you determine the source of the leak? Your repair may be short lived if the leak is still present.

BTW: My S series A/C is in proper order. When I go out to the car in the heat and turn the A/C on during idle I get cool air. There is no need to start driving the car. It takes about 15 seconds for the air to cool. Using a basic pencil thermometer you can see the temp drop almost immediately; again with only idling the engine.

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Old 08-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #53
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

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Its also a very common sign for an undercharged system. An undercharged system will blow cold at higher RPMs. Without knowing the top side numbers it difficult to determine.

I may have missed it but did you determine the source of the leak? Your repair may be short lived if the leak is still present.

BTW: My S series A/C is in proper order. When I go out to the car in the heat and turn the A/C on during idle I get cool air. There is no need to start driving the car. It takes about 15 seconds for the air to cool. Using a basic pencil thermometer you can see the temp drop almost immediately; again with only idling the engine.

-Robert
OP mentioned something about the charging gauge reading, sounds quite outlandish to me
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Well, my mom is driving it to work, so I hope it doesn't hurt her. We drove around the block with it a couple times. I exaggerated when I said 3,000 RPM's it's more like 2k. Also it blows cold idle, but it blows ICE cold when you start pulling out of the driveway. Is that normal?

I know the risks, I am willing to take them. If the ac only needs to be refilled around each summer, I am only looking at 10-20$ a summer which is very satisfying in my opinion. But I think like let's say the car runs out of A/C in a couple weeks or days, I'll do the black light diagnosis and check for leaks and complete and install the new o-ring/etc. I don't know if I over-charged, I just tried to charge it when the car was off and it was stuck at 150 PSI in the red. It wouldn't take any r134a, that's when I freaked out and was like am I doing this wrong? So I called up campus, he told me to start the car and AC It was only 3quarters of a 12 OZ Can, it took like 15minutes of me shaking that damn can to get charged. There is still like 3oz's left in that can, it was like 25minutes and it wouldn't take any more refrigerant, it was at 45 PSI though, (in the green) so I think it's good?

Hell when I think about it, it takes 1.5 lb's and I didn't even put 1 can of a 12oz in there. Hell I should have bought another can, but I am not sure how much was in there already, since I didn't do the gauge richpin video, because I don't got those gauges. But the AC turned right on when I injected the AC, so It had to be empty?


PS: I forgot that these saturns get up real quick at a stop

Last edited by Newman1992; 08-09-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
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I don't know if I over-charged, I just tried to charge it when the car was off and it was stuck at 150 PSI in the red. It wouldn't take any r134a, that's when I freaked out and was like am I doing this wrong? So I called up campus, he told me to start the car and AC It was only 3quarters of a 12 OZ Can, it took like 15minutes of me shaking that damn can to get charged. There is still like 3oz's left in that can, it was like 25minutes and it wouldn't take any more refrigerant, it was at 45 PSI though, (in the green) so I think it's good?
45psi is the low side pressure. Do you have access to the high side value? Typically you determine full charge of a partially charged system by reference to the top side pressure. The actual target pressure is calculated based on outside air temp and humidity. If you post the temp that day and the humidity I can look up the correct high side pressure range.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #56
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

OP does not have any high side reading...
If low side is 45 instead of 145 when compressor is on, and the AC is blowing cold, then, let it be
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:30 PM   #57
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Once again, misleading statements in regards to a/c servicing can lead to further misinterpretation and more misinformation when nothing from the service manual has been mentioned.

Specifically, the S-series a/c systems require running the engine at 2k rpm for all pressure gauge measurements, not at idle rpm. The difference in misinformation or using service manual recommendations can be large with mostly incorrect amounts of R134a. Furthering this misinformation is the difficulty in injecting R134a at idle rpm as posted by the OP. This simple little mistake is easily corrected the moment 2k rpm is used as the compressor will suck R134a in less than a few minutes with most recharging cans suddenly frosting.

Not only is idle rpm wrong for injecting R134a but a waste of time is guaranteed attempting to charge a system. In addition, the wrong low side (and high side) pressures are noted because of incorrect set-up procedures. The lack of understanding refrigeration fundamentals is clearly evident here with incorrect pressure readings from the wrong engine rpm. Anyone assuming idle rpm is used for Saturn S-series recharging procedures is simply in the dark about a/c servicing. Anyone can easily see for themselves a large pressure change when the incorrectly assumed idle rpm pressure reading drastically changes when raising rpm up to 2k. This simple rpm change to 2k will show how pressures are affected and demonstrate how little many think they feel comfortable recharging a system with incorrect information.

Fortunately, this instance has shown that this system is undercharged. The hint is from freezing cabin temps at speed and the incorrect 45psi reading at idle rpm. The more experienced members with refrigeration knowledge already know the discrepancy here.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

If there is no cold air at all, then the compressor almost certainly wont be turning. There has to be enough refrigerant in the system to satisfy the pressure switch for it to turn on. If there is that much, it will almost definitly make some cold air.
Another check is to see if the radiator fan is running. It will come on if there is pressure and the compressor is running.
There is no way to know if the system is leaking by inspection. It's a colorless, odorless gas coming out. There might me a slight oil stain unless someone has already put dye in the system.
If it's not running, there is almost certainly a leak - that's the most common failure. If there is, putting more R134a in it is a waste of time and $.
You could check to see if any connections are loose, but your best bet is to hook up with a Saturnfan!
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:10 PM   #59
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

......read post #54 to get up to speed.............
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: No air Conditioning, on a budget..

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Once again, misleading statements in regards to a/c servicing can lead to further misinterpretation and more misinformation when nothing from the service manual has been mentioned.

Specifically, the S-series a/c systems require running the engine at 2k rpm for all pressure gauge measurements, not at idle rpm. The difference in misinformation or using service manual recommendations can be large with mostly incorrect amounts of R134a. Furthering this misinformation is the difficulty in injecting R134a at idle rpm as posted by the OP. This simple little mistake is easily corrected the moment 2k rpm is used as the compressor will suck R134a in less than a few minutes with most recharging cans suddenly frosting.

Not only is idle rpm wrong for injecting R134a but a waste of time is guaranteed attempting to charge a system. In addition, the wrong low side (and high side) pressures are noted because of incorrect set-up procedures. The lack of understanding refrigeration fundamentals is clearly evident here with incorrect pressure readings from the wrong engine rpm. Anyone assuming idle rpm is used for Saturn S-series recharging procedures is simply in the dark about a/c servicing. Anyone can easily see for themselves a large pressure change when the incorrectly assumed idle rpm pressure reading drastically changes when raising rpm up to 2k. This simple rpm change to 2k will show how pressures are affected and demonstrate how little many think they feel comfortable recharging a system with incorrect information.

Fortunately, this instance has shown that this system is undercharged. The hint is from freezing cabin temps at speed and the incorrect 45psi reading at idle rpm. The more experienced members with refrigeration knowledge already know the discrepancy here.

You're probably 100% right. I did take all the advice I can from saturn forums. Never buy the sealant crap, which wal mart sells all their crap with sealant except for 1 can, which I bought. The degree outside was around 65-70 DEG Fahrenheit. (I did it at 10:00PM AT night)

The only reason I did this risk man was sometimes I just needed to risk something to help out my mom. We are a low budget family, she would most likely of taken it into the shop for and get ripped 3 digit figures easily. I did the most pre-caution I could have ever done. I never did not one thing w/o asking or getting a confirmation from a Saturn member here

AndreasChen specifically told me to not start the car first and inject 80% of the can into the system then let it sit for 1 hour to re-balance and then turn on the ac to let the system propogate. The problem was, the car did not seem to consume any type of refrigant unless the car was on? That is probably my biggest mistake, and I apologize, I know AndreasChen might have been talking about something else, or maybe I misinterpreted him. But I did wear safety gloves and my mom's sunglasses while doing this procedure, I took all nessacariy pre-caution, I watched richpin's trouble shooting video, I jumped the power and everything to confirm the AC was actually working, I spent about 152 hours fore-shadowing what to do the minute I left the house to work on the car and the minute I came back to post the results on the saturn forum. I even called up campus's phone number to get some help as well.

The risk I took was not specifically measuring it with the guages that richpin showed. I just figured that if the AC doesn't turn on that there is no 134a in the system, and it has a small leak somewhere. And when there is no 134a in the system, 1 bottle of 12oz of 134A will do no harm. (I know you prob think I have no idea what I am talking about) I just do not have the time and money for that kind of thing, my mom needs AC and I needed a budget plan, I am sorry I did not do it professional, but sometimes we just have to make ends-meat man I am just grateful I got help and support from friendly saturn members.
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