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Old 12-09-2010, 06:46 PM   #1
AlexofNazareth
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Default DOHC Turbo Build

Well Id like do start doing research and getting information together about putting together a turbo DOHC for my SL1 since ill finally be getting a credit card so i can start buying things to do this.

I have a good friend that owns his own auto shop, he has his former boss who owns a performance shop and tunes tons of cars. So i dont have to worry about a place to do all of this stuff.

I dont know too much about FI cars. I know that you cant just put a turbo on and go. Id like to hear what you guys know about FI on the DOHC engine, and any crazy stories about engines turning into grenades, haha.

Keep in mind, im not looking for a crazy fast car. I want to make it reliable, practical(30+mpgs on the highway), and i dont want to overbore or get forged internals if i could safely run close to 10psi on the stock motor with stronger head and rod bolts.

Id like to keep the car for another 4 years so i need a setup that will allow that
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Go read all the stickies in the turbo section on sixthsphere. And know that it's much better to set a hp goal than a psi goal. Healthy stock engine can handle over 200hp without modifying internals, IF you tune it well.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

yeah, ive been reading a lot of the old threads on here too and they say go to 6s.

You think that alphatuning will drop a grand off of the price of their turbo kit any time soon? haha

Yeah, 200 is what im aiming for.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

at what rpm does the garrett T3/TO4E .50 Trim turbo start to spool at?
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

at what rpm does the garrett T3/TO4E .50 Trim turbo start to spool at?

And is 330 for a fidanza flywheel a good deal?
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by somerandomforumguy
I have a t3/04e 50 trim on my KA and its spools like perfect, the RPM depends on the gear and load but I have positive boost around 3k and 20psi before 4k, but not sure about an SR
Hard to find when they spool up, easy to find such&such spools up faster then this&that... lol
You'd probably do well seaching youtube for turbo S-Series vid's and watching those & listening to the comentary, you can guess pretty good by which gear & speed they say they start in what RPM it's at.
$330 is better then the $390 Summit wants. Don't remember what I paid for mine ~2yrs ago but it was whatever summit wanted back then.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

does the lightened flywheel really make much of a difference?
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurdueGuy View Post
Go read all the stickies in the turbo section on sixthsphere.
I second this. Read over there. Don't post any questions until you've read and searched first, though--if you ask something that's already been discussed, they won't respond well.

No offense, but it sounds like you need to do a lot more reading before you start doing anything. You definitely need some sort of aftermarket fuel control before you can run any boost--an SAFCII is bare minimum. If you want to safely reach 200hp, you'll need full fuel and ignition control (megasquirt or something similar). You also need to know how to tune it (and need a WBO2 sensor/gauge to be able to tune it). (If you don't know what those are... find out...)
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

dude. I literally read 50 or so threads on 6s....the only reason im still asking questions about the turbo build is because i havent been authorized to post on the site yet. Idk why the moderators havent "approved" me yet

and i have a good idea of all of the things ill need for this build. The first thing ill need is some plastic *cha-ching!* Can someone say discover card? haha
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
The first thing ill need is some plastic *cha-ching!* Can someone say discover card? haha
That's gonna depend on:

1. how big your credit limit is (keep in mind that the alpha tuning turbo kit is $4k ALONE, lord only knows how much the labor is going to be and if you have to restrengthen any part of your engine; as a bare minimum I'd personally recommend a re-ring of the pistons, the drain holes drilled in the pistons, new bolts all around, and maybe a new, quality performance-grade head gasket. To be fair I'd estimate around $5000 for the labor and new parts as mentioned here)
EDIT: forgot to take into consideration the gear PlasticCarsRock mentioned.
2. if the shops, let alone Alpha Tuning, can take Discover cards
3. your ability to perservere and not give up
and 4. your ability to pay down the credit card

Keep in mind that many people set out on a turboing project and it usually never gets finished (though to be fair you ARE getting a shop to do it, so...). Not to mention you're probably going to be head over heels in debt when this is all over. Ask yourself: is it REALLY worth it to turbo an econocar, or would it be better to take this money and find a Mustang GT or something on craigslist to have fun with?
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Last edited by adventureoflink; 12-11-2010 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
dude. I literally read 50 or so threads on 6s...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but based on the very basic questions you asked (and the assumption that you need "head and rod bolts" before forged internals), indicates that you don't know near enough to do a successful turbo build.

You need to be very familiar with how the fuel injection system of cars work before you could even think about attempting to do a turbo build. Sure... anyone can bolt on a pre-made turbo kit, but do you have the electrical skills to assemble a megasquirt from scratch? Are you going to pay much more for a partially assembled one? Do you know of a source for a used one? Do you know how to set up the fuel, timing, etc with one. Do you know how to do this to essentially replace the PCM, but maintain the functions of the BCM so the other electronics of the car still work? Do you know how to set up the fuel maps? What about the ignition timing?

The answers to all these questions (and all the ones I didn't ask) are on 6s.

Even if you bolt everything together right (a very small part of the build), all it takes is one mistake with the tuning to run lean under boost and destroy your engine (that's it... one single mistake and in a split second you've ruined the engine).

10psi is a lot on a stock engine. Sure, you can probably run 10 psi without forged internals, but only if you tune right (which means a full stand alone... no SAFCII or equivalent piggy-back controller).

Furthermore, if you don't have the cash in hand to buy everything you need (and then some left over, because it will cost more than you think...) you are in no position to do such a project. You're just going to end up in debt, and then if/when you blow up your engine, you'll only have your other car... (I assume you do have a second car to drive while this is in the garage, which it will be, frequently?).

Don't take this the wrong way--I'm not trying to be rude--I'm trying to prevent you from starting a project until you are able to complete the project without throwing away loads of money and time and ending up with nothing.

Of all the people on this forum, only a handful have ever installed a turbo on a Saturn, and those who have usually don't run near 10psi (6s is another story). And, of the few people who have, I've only seen 1 or 2 on here, recently. You're asking people about something they've never done... For specific, pre-researched questions, you need to ask on 6s. (Did you get banned or something? I don't recall needing anyone approval to join...) Keep in mind, if you ask this question there, you won't get a polite answer like mine--the nicest thing you'll hear is "search." Even in the "newbie safe forum," most of it will not be so polite.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Yeah, im not going to buy the alpha tuning kit(although i did send an email asking if they were gonna drop the prices anytime soon, just to be an ass ) Im gonna look for good deals on parts that i need for the build and take my time. this is not the sort of thing i want to rush into. It is a major plan, that costs a lot of money, and i want to do it right.

and what am I getting a shop to do? I have a friend who owns a shop. Hes going to let me do the things i want to my car with his tools. If i have questions i can ask him for advice, but im doing the majority of the work.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
and what am I getting a shop to do? I have a friend who owns a shop. Hes going to let me do the things i want to my car with his tools. If i have questions i can ask him for advice, but im doing the majority of the work.
Yeah, I confused that with your buddy owning an auto shop, I apologize. Also, from what I hear, the Alpha Tuning turbo is actually pretty good. Most of the junk you find on ebay and other places is just that -- junk.

In any case, I do side with PlasticCarsRock, and in case you missed my edits, ask yourself: is it REALLY worth it to turbo an econocar that wasn't meant to be turboed in the first place, or would it just be better to plunk this money (which right now I estimate at over $9,000 -- pardon the pun, not intended) on a decent Mustang GT or something on craigslist and have fun with that? At least there you'll still be in bad debt, but you'll have something that's fun to drive, and requires ZERO tune by default to get tons of power out of it.

EDIT: If you still want to keep the sedan practicality (which I take it you're going to DOHC swap your SL1), why not get a crown victoria, grand marquis, lincoln continental, or (if you can find a kick-ass deal for ~$10k, good luck) a HEMI dodge charger? At least with the first two you still have the V8 Mustang GT powerhouse and as a result, there's a TON of mods already for them. Should you go HEMI, I do believe there's mods for that..
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

I understand what im setting myself up for. My goals of building a 200whp DD that gets decent mileage can be considered to be slightly idiotic.

This really is the first car i will be heavily modifying. I will need the help from my friend who has the shop and his tuning buddies so i dont muff **** up.

I have never undertaken anything like this. This is "my first rodeo". I dont care about the discouraging remarks that its not worth it, or im too inept to attempt this. Thats why im going to take the time to do this right, like I said.

To build a a fast reliable DOHC turbo saturn, i will need forged internals(because i probably will get the boost bug), a standalone ECU, lots and lots of tuning, and many other parts that i must learn about. Where is the fun in buying another car when you can make something fairly ordinary into something special?

This is a learning experience for me. Im a mechanical engineering student at the university of iowa. I dont think the 5k i may spend on this car really scares me to tell you the truth. I want to be able to say that i can do this. Anyone can give their car to some ******* at a performance shop and pay them to build them a race car. Anyone can buy a fast car. Thats just not me. The only thing i want is something original.

I dont expect you guys to understand what id like to do. Im an ambitious person. Yes, i first got on here thinking that i could tune my SL1, put nitrous on it, and make it into an amazing sporty car. I recently learned that i was pretty wrong. I am spontaneous. I like to bounce around to different ideas to see how they may work out. But for this, i want commit to this plan and see it come to life. If it doesnt work, fine, i will have been proven wrong, but that doesnt mean it was a complete failure. I love cars and i want to at least attempt to build my saturn, which i love, into the car i know it could be.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:12 AM   #15
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Read the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell? Used to be THE book recommended for people wanting to boost, dunno if there's a better one out now or not...have it as a PDF if you want it.

Personally, if I was going to turbo, I'd get a '90's Daytona IROC/Shelby. My mom had a Daytona ES when I was 16 (most comfortable car I've been in to date. PITA to get in/out of but once your in your KING).......haven't found another one for sale to this day but those motors are non-interference so even though they have a timing belt if it breaks or slips it's just an oop's and not an "Oh SH_T" lol
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Sure, thanks fetchitfido. Anything that'll give me more knowledge is a good thing
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

you have pm.
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Old 12-11-2010, 11:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Read the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell? Used to be THE book recommended for people wanting to boost, dunno if there's a better one out now or not...have it as a PDF if you want it.

Personally, if I was going to turbo, I'd get a '90's Daytona IROC/Shelby. My mom had a Daytona ES when I was 16 (most comfortable car I've been in to date. PITA to get in/out of but once your in your KING).......haven't found another one for sale to this day but those motors are non-interference so even though they have a timing belt if it breaks or slips it's just an oop's and not an "Oh SH_T" lol
For someone that wants to learn the ropes of tuning a turbocharged engine, I'd strongly suggest starting with a car that CAME with a turbo engine and start from there. You can get an old 1.8T VW or Eclipse/Talon for quite a bit less than you'd pay for just the nekkid turbo kit for your Saturn. Either one of those options would turn out north of 200WHP with just a chip and some basic tuning and if you put some money/time into it you can get them up into the 300+WHP range without a lot of drama.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Well i dont like volkswagens and i hate mitsubishis. Im not getting another car, im going to keep my saturn, buy a dohc engine, and get working on this project
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: DOHC Turbo Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
Well i dont like volkswagens and i hate mitsubishis. Im not getting another car, im going to keep my saturn, buy a dohc engine, and get working on this project
Good luck with that.

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