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Old 12-26-2012, 02:41 PM   #1
Thor4SL2
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Default Phenolic Heat Shields

Some time ago the guys at SDA (now out of business) had phenolic spacers made to fit between the intake manifold and the cylinder head for Saturn twin cam engines. The purpose of the heat shield is to insulate the intake manifold from the high temperature of the cylinder head resulting in a cooler temperature of the incoming air. This is beneficial to all applications but particularly to turbo charged engines. If you are running a cold air intake you need this, a hot manifold simpaly re-heats the air without a heat shield.

Unfortunately these have not been available for quite a while and it seems unlikely they will be making them any time soon. With this in mind I decided to try fabricating some. . I used G-10 fiberglass reinforce epoxy, 3/8Ē for the cylinder head spacer and ľĒ for the throttle body spacer. These will work on any 91-98 S-series DOHC head with an aluminum intake manifold. They install just like replacing your gaskets.

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=33559

http://sharkracing.com/acecart/bin/s...cate=011003000

http://www.outlawengineering.com/hondajframe.html

Unlike many buy-ins, these are done and ready to ship. The price is $75.00 shipped in the US and $80.00 for Canadian shipping.

Send questions to me at rraffurty@zoomtown.com Also my Pay-Pal address.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Copy of Saturn heat shield 001.jpg (61.5 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg Copy of Motor Mounts & Brackets 025.jpg (129.3 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg Copy of Installing Heat Shield 003.jpg (111.0 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Copy of Installing Heat Shield 005.jpg (71.6 KB, 34 views)
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

very neat idea been thinking of this for quite some time myself already have the material just need to trace the gasket and cut it out with a dremel. Price for me is a bit to high considering the cost of the material isnt bad and how easy it is to do. But for those tht dont want to wait this is a great idea. The Tb is basically a waste if your already doing the intake though, but if not then the Tb would help by itself. I myself am using G-10 black Garolite for mine also 3/8s thick but with tht will need to have longer studs for the intake manny not much left on it with this added.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2-0220 View Post
very neat idea been thinking of this for quite some time myself already have the material just need to trace the gasket and cut it out with a dremel. Price for me is a bit to high considering the cost of the material isnt bad and how easy it is to do. But for those tht dont want to wait this is a great idea. The Tb is basically a waste if your already doing the intake though, but if not then the Tb would help by itself. I myself am using G-10 black Garolite for mine also 3/8s thick but with tht will need to have longer studs for the intake manny not much left on it with this added.
You must have a pretty good source for phenolic a piece of 3/8Ē 12x24 black costs me $154.00 + shipping.

The throttle body spacer is not as important as the manifold spacer but there is a heat source just next to the throttle body so every little bit helps.

You donít necessarily need longer studs. I recommend replacing the studs with M8-1.25 x 40 hex bolts or cap screws w/ washer.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:23 AM   #4
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

I've seen some in depth data from some of the stock car engine builder types on phenolic spacers, and the general consensus seems to be that the changer in intake manifold runner length have just as much, if not more, effect on the power band and power production. Likewise has been proven true with some of the "tornado" type gadgets, where the actual reduction in flow favors power at a certain (lower in this case) rev range.

I'll see if I can dig up the data on the phenolics though, probably still have a link somewhere. But with the velocity of air traveling through the intake, the temp drop in NA cars was very minimal. One guy did some data points and determined that just ducting a small amount of air to the exterior of the intake lowered temps just as much. In combo you could get larger temp drops, especially if you did something to keep it from heat soaking from the radiant heat. If you look at some of the earlier Celica's they had a scoop which actually cooled the exhaust, due to the exhaust exiting at the rear of the engine.

As for price, they have never been cheap. I think you'll need some good bulk in your purchases to get the prices down. Back in my sign making days some of the local specialty plastics/acrylics suppliers sold several types, and the prices would almost make you pass out.

Do your homework as well. Some phenolics have specific heat ranges at which they are more efficient, and some have broader heat ranges at which they work well. Also keep in mind that the heat still exists, and if it's not heat soaking the manifold it's remaining in the head.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

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Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
I've seen some in depth data from some of the stock car engine builder types on phenolic spacers, and the general consensus seems to be that the changer in intake manifold runner length have just as much, if not more, effect on the power band and power production.
Good point. Lengthening the intake runner does have a beneficial effect in our Saturns. This shifts the peak torque & horsepower down the RPM range. This is a good thing since the Sx-2 engine peaks very high up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
...with the velocity of air traveling through the intake, the temp drop in NA cars was very minimal..
The links I provided show a substantial drop in manifold temperature, how much cooler the incoming air is I do not know but their dino results showed a marked improvement in HP & torque. Some years ago a carburetor manufacturer actually made a carburetor out of phenolic to take advantage of this. I believe it was called the Thermo-Quad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
One guy did some data points and determined that just ducting a small amount of air to the exterior of the intake lowered temps just as much. In combo you could get larger temp drops, especially if you did something to keep it from heat soaking from the radiant heat.
I made the heat shield as large as possible for just that reason, to block some of the radiant heat from the head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
...keep in mind that the heat still exists, and if it's not heat soaking the manifold it's remaining in the head..
Not exactly. The heat still exists but it is quickly disbursed by the carís cooling system. What I have found, after almost a year of driving my SC-2 with the shield installed, is that the car actually reaches operating temperature (thermostat opening) a bit quicker. Once the thermostat is open the temp stabilizes at its normal range. This includes many hot summer, stuck in construction, 5-MPH traffic on I-75 days without any overheating. If properly maintained the Saturnís cooling system is more than adequate, since the intake manifold is not a major heat disperser compared to the radiator and the exhaust manifold.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

I used to machine carb spacers out of Benelex, now gone but replaced. http://www.complast.com/benelex.htm They work as advertised.

This may actually be beneficial for the daily driver as moving the peak torque/power to a lower RPM would help overall real world efficiency.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:13 AM   #7
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Wrench Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

I made a TBI spacer from laminated Masonite and it worked like a charm. The trick is to coat the throat with polyester resin to seal it. Do not use this technique for any passage that will see actual liquid though.

It should work fine for the throttle body to the manifold.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

You had to cut/machine Benelex with metal working tools. I would think the modern replacement is at least as dense. It was not real easy to work with, but it worked. Masonite and any good urethane based sealer would work well today for a quick DIY experiment.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

Quote:
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I made a TBI spacer from laminated Masonite and it worked like a charm. The trick is to coat the throat with polyester resin to seal it. Do not use this technique for any passage that will see actual liquid though.

It should work fine for the throttle body to the manifold.
I've seen people use masonite and other woods as well with good results.



Just some food for thought with spacers in general as well............

During open loop operation they may slightly change your A/F mixtures, as they alter velocities within the engine intake. This may happen only in certain RPM ranges or on a broader range depending on the intake, injector locations, etc, etc.

During closed loop it's also possible they affect mixture somewhat, as they can affect manifold vacuum which in turn is affecting the PCM functions. Most seem to think this is a very minor concern unless you make really big changes.

In some cases gains may be from leaning the mixture (also true with a great number of flow related mods) and to be safe a person should check the mixture during open loop operation. Many cars run richer than needed, but after a number of mods the leaning might lean towards being unsafe.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

The objective of these spacers is to increase the amount of oxygen in a given cylinder intake stroke, the PCM will note this change and compensate accordingly. The end result if it all works out correctly is increased power.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
I've seen people use masonite and other woods as well with good results.



Just some food for thought with spacers in general as well............

During open loop operation they may slightly change your A/F mixtures, as they alter velocities within the engine intake. This may happen only in certain RPM ranges or on a broader range depending on the intake, injector locations, etc, etc.

During closed loop it's also possible they affect mixture somewhat, as they can affect manifold vacuum which in turn is affecting the PCM functions. Most seem to think this is a very minor concern unless you make really big changes.

In some cases gains may be from leaning the mixture (also true with a great number of flow related mods) and to be safe a person should check the mixture during open loop operation. Many cars run richer than needed, but after a number of mods the leaning might lean towards being unsafe.
Such modifications will not significantly impact air fuel ratios in open loop or closed loop. In fact, they will not have any effect except at wide open throttle (open loop). Even then, the car will run too rich to make maximum power. My SL2 is modded more than most (high compression "deebs build" with cams), yet it still runs richer than necessary at WOT. The leanest it gets is about 12.4:1, and that's because the stock injectors are maxed out (PCM commanding 105% duty cycle with the stock tune, where 100% is obviously the mechanical limit). Ideal full throttle air/fuel ratio seems to be between 12.5:1 and 13:1 (there is no significant difference on a dyno, so I choose to tune on the rich side, to be safe).

During normal closed loop driving, the O2 sensor will sense a rich or lean condition, and the PCM will correct for it, overruling all other sensors (for normal small variances, this takes (literally) a fraction of a second, for larger changes, it may 1-2 seconds). It still uses the other sensors, but learns a correction factor (essentially, it calculates the amount of fuel, based on the sensors, then adds or removes a percentage based on the correction factor (long term fuel trim). There are different fuel trims for many different conditions. These are saved in volatile memory, only erased if the battery is disconnected.

Even during open loop operation (just a few seconds on cold starts), this fuel trim is taken into consideration (although a bit "extra" fuel is added to ensure that it runs a bit rich).
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

The problem here is that mixture control in open loop is not well understood. As long as you have adequate fuel pressure at WOT it is near impossible to go lean.

How did your resurrected O2 sensor work on the trip back?
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

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As long as you have adequate fuel pressure at WOT it is near impossible to go lean.
Exactly. The only exception would be forced induction.

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How did your resurrected O2 sensor work on the trip back?
It failed on the trip home, so there hasn't been a return trip. I've been too busy shoveling snow and stuff, so I haven't swapped the failed one back in, yet. I'll update the thread when I do. So far, the re-wired one seems to work fine (just a few short trips), but I wouldn't trust it long term.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

I suspect it will snow a lot this winter.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

It seems these heat shields are grouped with TB spacers and airfoils. They work on paper and some say they felt gains, but in reality there isn't much, if any, gain.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:59 AM   #16
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

The heat shields work fine if you have the conditions that require them.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

OK so we have kicked this around for a while. The links I provided show actual results, not on a Saturn, but valid just the same. The point of starting this is that I made up 4 extra ones. The cost of the materials (buying a full sheet) and the time designing, setting up & machining them didnít justify making just 1 or 2. So, who wantís one? Remember I will not be making any more, itís too difficult to work with this stuff and yes they are made in the USA.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:04 PM   #18
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Happy Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

The TB spacers seem to work best on TBI or carburetor setups with low-rise manifolds so that the air and fuel will get a little more time and space to mix. They don't seem to have as much effect on MFI setups where all that is present prior to the intake valves is air, which sort of makes sense.

The old foot-high tunnel ram setups did very well on race cars, but that was a totally different situation. Velocity stacks fall into the same category.

I definitely did notice a difference with the one I made, but that was on a 350ci dual throat TBI setup in a heavy truck. I really doubt that any significant differences would be had with the more modern MFI (port injection) setups. But people like AirRaid will very gladly sell you an expensive chunk of pretty aluminum if you really want one.

I gave the home made spacer to someone at work when I sold the truck. Last I heard they are still using it all these years later. So it held up quite well, all in all.

If you just want to play around with TB spacers, Masonite is dirt cheap and extremely easy to work with. And as Signmaster said, pretty much any hard wood would work as well. Just be sure to seal the bores so the material does not swell.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

My thought is that the spacer at the head will lengthen the intake runner and tend to lower the peak power/torque point. Slightly increasing the length and volume of the plenum should have a similar effect. looking at the peak in torque at 2000RPM, lowering and broadening that out would be just fine.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:45 PM   #20
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Happy Re: Phenolic Heat Shields

Yes, I totally agree. My wife's truck has a variable length runner intake manifold that is controlled by the PCM. There is an electric valve on the top of it that basically cuts the runner length in half at high rpm. You absolutely can feel it cut in and it does indeed make a difference in torque. But that's a relatively large difference in length and/or volume.

Adding 1/2" or 1" to the runner length or to the manifold plenum doesn't change the manifold's internal volume all that much. Probably 2-5% as a rough guess.

If you are a drag racer fighting for milliseconds it may indeed matter. If not, it may not help enough to justify its cost.

You pay your money and hope for the best......
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