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Old 11-17-2020, 10:36 AM   #1
trottida
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Default Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Just throwing this out there for discussion.

When swapping auto to manual in a GEN2 DOHC and using the DOHC AT PCM, do you lose cruise control? I've read that the AT ECU works however you get some gauge lights but there is no definitive mention of CC.

Based on the 5th gear swap thread (putting an MP2 5th gear into an MP3), in similar fashion I would expect the AT PCM to be looking for certain matching inputs. I'd expect this to be the same for a GEN3 as well. Am I right in this line of thought? Asking for a friend...

And go....
...
1999 SL2 MT (298,000 km @ 06/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
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Old 11-17-2020, 06:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Quote:
Originally Posted by trottida View Post
Just throwing this out there for discussion.

When swapping auto to manual in a GEN2 DOHC and using the DOHC AT PCM, do you lose cruise control? I've read that the AT ECU works however you get some gauge lights but there is no definitive mention of CC....
Oooh! Oooh! I know this one!

Confirmation CC works.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=162611
...
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

LOL /\ /\ /\ How hard is it to swap out a auto to manual ?
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Old 11-17-2020, 08:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinPotter View Post
LOL /\ /\ /\ How hard is it to swap out a auto to manual ?
Unbolt the useless crap, bolt on the fun. Takes 2-3 days the first time, a full day after that. Probably faster with power tools, a lift and not fighting the engine hoist in the dirt.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Oooh! Oooh! I know this one!

Confirmation CC works.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=162611
Thanks. So that thread ends with your though that it works only in 5th gear due to the similar gear ratios. Modpogue thinks that it works because the electronic clutch position switch in not built into the AT PCM. I suspect that the switch looks at speed and RPM inputs and anything outside a range disables CC. Does anyone know if gear ratios come into play at all in the AT PCM like it does in the MT PCM?

The situation is that there is a 99 SL2 AT DOHC PCM installed in a 98 SL2 MT DOHC. The MP3 transmission is from a 95 model. The cruise in the 98 worked before the transmission swap and does not work after the swap. The 99 PCM came from a donor that was equipped with CC. We're trying to figure out why it does not work.

Another question, on the 96-99 models was cruise enabled by default in the PCM?
...
1999 SL2 MT (298,000 km @ 06/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Old 11-18-2020, 09:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

I may have solved this. Awaiting confirmation from the owner once he re-installs the Service Engine light bulb (wrench) which was removed prior to the 99 PCM being swapped in. The previous PCM was from a 95 model year donor and the presence of a bulb didn't matter.

This is the relevant information I found; a TSB from 1996 >> http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=19

I was lead there by this thread >> http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=135034
...
1999 SL2 MT (298,000 km @ 06/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
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1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Old 11-18-2020, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

The autos have a "slipping" clutch 100% of the time the TC isn't locked up. This means there's a range of VSS vs Tach readings for each gear that are acceptable. If you can get a 5spd Tach & VSS reading to match what's expected it should be fine.
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Old 11-18-2020, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Quote:
Originally Posted by trottida View Post
The situation is that there is a 99 SL2 AT DOHC PCM installed in a 98 SL2 MT DOHC. The MP3 transmission is from a 95 model. The cruise in the 98 worked before the transmission swap and does not work after the swap. The 99 PCM came from a donor that was equipped with CC. We're trying to figure out why it does not work.
Can you clarify the order in which parts were swapped?

98 SL2 started with a MT or AT?

Then it had the trans replaced with a 95 MP3? And cruise still worked?

And next, the 98's PCM was replaced with a 99 SL2 AT PCM? And this is when cruise stopped working?

And cruise was known to work on the 99 donor car? I ask because there were a few folks shortly after Saturn folded that installed cruise parts but were unable to find a dealer or TechII equipped shop to turn it on . . . they may have given up and later junked the cars for other reasons. Car would look as if it were cruise-equipped but the pcm never had cruise enabled.

Quote:
Another question, on the 96-99 models was cruise enabled by default in the PCM?
No, it was not - I had to pay to have cruise enabled in my '98's PCM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Can you clarify the order in which parts were swapped?
It was originally a 98 SL1 AT and the engine, transmission and PCM was swapped in from a 96 SL2 MT**. CC worked but due to other issues he swapped in my 99 SL2 AT PCM (left over from my MT swap). My 99 SL2 was equipped with CC (and AT, leather, PW/PL, sunroof). I checked the factory build sheet and CC is there. He took the bulb for the check engine light out and this is probably the reason the CC stopped working. He's going to replace it and report back.

**This is SLFun's car BTW, looking back in his history he noted it as a 96 originally but years later started referencing 95. We clarified that it is indeed a 96 based on body.
...
1999 SL2 MT (298,000 km @ 06/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Last edited by trottida; 11-18-2020 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

So I re installed the CEL bulbs, but still no CC. I'm going to disconnect the battery, re connect it and try again.

Since I am running an automatic ECM with a manual trans, I will always have both the CEL's on all the time. Will the CC work if one or both of the CEL's are on??
...
My 96 SL2 and 98 SL1 have joined together to become one. So I guess I now have a 1996/8
SL1-2.
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Old 11-23-2020, 08:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Auto to manual swap & cruise control

So does anybody have any other points of failure that can be checked out?
...
1999 SL2 MT (298,000 km @ 06/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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