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Old 10-14-2011, 07:20 PM   #1
ropor
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2001 SC1
Default Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

If your AC Clutch coil fails, you may be able to repair it.

First you will want to check your coil resistance by using a multimeter. With one lead on the connector pin and the other placed anywhere on the metal body, you should read 3-6 ohms on a good coil, less than 2 ohms on a shorted coil and a very high or open resistance if the Thermal Fuse is Blown or there is a broken wire in the coil.

There is a 1 amp/ 185 degree C, thermal fuse installed underneath a small rectangular cover on the clutch coil. This fuse will fail if the coil gets hot, draws excessive current or just gets old. You can find these fuses at electronic shops for less than $5. Or you can remove it completely and replace it with a piece of small gauge wire, preferably solid not stranded. I used a lead wire cut from an LED. See the pics for more details.

First you will have to remove the pump, keeping the A/C lines attached. Then remove the Clutch plate and Pulley. (I had to use a puller to remove the Pulley.)Then remove the 3 screws holding the coil so you can take it to your bench.

East Hants-20111014-00069.jpg

I didn't get a pic of the cover for the thermal fuse but you just pry it off with a flat screwdriver. It will most likely snap into pieces like mine did. Now, using a multimeter you can check the thermal fuse for continuity by putting the leads on the two silver clips holding the thermal resister. If it is good it will read a Very low resistance (less than 1 ohm) and you have a bad connection somewhere else on the coil or it is broken internally. If it is bad it will read as open or a very high resistance.

East Hants-20111014-00071.jpg
100_1730.jpg

Now you can carefully pry out the metal clips and remove the Thermal Fuse.

100_1736.jpg
100_1737.jpg

Cut a small piece of wire or get a new thermal fuse and place it back in the coil. Place the wires into position and push/tap the clips back down over them. Make sure you push the clips all the way in.

Now retest the coil: With one lead on the connector pin and the other placed anywhere on the metal body, you should read 3-6 ohms.

100_1739.jpg

Now you can seal the connection with Hi Temp RTV, re-assemble the clutch and reinstall the compressor.

Should work like a champ!

This may work for other makes and models as well.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Saved me some money today!
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

The answer to mechanical breakdown isn't to bypass the safety measures that prevent electrical fires. The answer is to go to a JY and find a known good part, and replace it properly. If you cut out this fuse and don't replace it with another good working fuse, you're an idiot.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Excellent pictures for anyone that has managed to determine a blown clutch coil and removed it from their compressor.

Please don't post misinformation about thermal fuse specs unless you're willing to accept the wrath from anyone being misled and finding out later. From the service manual for your '01 SC1; A thermal link fuse is incorporated into the coil. If the temperature of the coil exceeds 214C +/- 3C (417F +/- 37F), the link will melt creating an open coil circuit. When the coil is de-energized the drive plate releases the pulley and the compressor stops pumping. A typical coil resistance will measure 3.22 +/- 0.08 ohms at 22C (72F).

Simple Ohms Law for anyone; E (volts) = I (amperage) X R (resistance)

Using given values then amperage (I) would be; E divided by R

12.5 volts divided by 3.22 ohms = 3.88 amps

14.3 volts divided by 3.22 ohms = 4.44 amps

Suggesting a 1 amp fuse would most likely blow it immediately upon power up.............
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

HI all,


I've lurked this forum for quite a while--lots of helpful insight that's helped me immensely over the last several months.

The A/C clutch in my wife's 2000 SL went out a couple of years ago, and since we've had record-breaking heat here in Indiana, I decided to take out the clutch and try the fix--

Not only was the thermal fuse bad, one of the coil windings was grounding-out...due to heat most likely.

I took a Dremal and cut a slit in the protective plastic, and bit by bit, removed it to expose the coil. I cut the small winding attached to rear of the coil housing, removed the connector (two tangs holding it on--with the other end of the winding press-fitted to end of the connector, similar to how the fuse is held in). I removed the coil from the housing and sealed the whole inside of the housing bell with TFE paste...Then, I slathered it all over the coil and refitted it back into the bell. I topped it off with epoxy to make sure everything stays in place, followed by a quick soldering job to the ground connection that I had previously cut... a nice 3.5 ohms when I put it on the meter

Let it dry for a few hours....

I originally removed the pulley using a two-jaw hub puller without any problem..I didn't have to remove the compressor and then remount the bottom of it to the top of the bracket like the service manual suggests for that end of it. I had enough room between the puller and windshield washer reservoir to put a wrench on it. *BUT* I did have to do it when removing the three screws that secure the coil to the compressor.....I almost stripped the head off one of the screws when trying to remove it from the compressor's original mounted position.

Now, because I didn't have the special installer tool, I decided to heat the pulley/bearing in the oven @ 250F for about 45 minutes to expand it enough to just slide it back on the compressor....

Slid on like butter..(I ran out of the house with the quickness and put it on--you don't have much time)..and it didn't destroy the bearing, nor did it separate from the hub....DO NOT GO ABOVE 250-DEGREES!!!!....and always put the pulley/bearing on a baking sheet...

I wish I had pictures to share, but our camera is dead and I didn't have a whole lot of faith that it would work anyway.....

Clutch engages like it should....I filled the system with refrigerent/oil....she blows COLD!

For how long....I don't have a clue..

I think excessive heat was do to a faulty fan motor in combination with a crappy refill can of r134a that had leak stopper in it, which may have blocked something somewhere in the system..(the new can of r134a with just oil must have knocked something loose...I don't know)..

Well, It works for now, and it can be done. I know it's not a permanent fix.....we'll just have to see how long she lasts...Hopefully until we get through the summer!!
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Oh, I should add that I used a 10A, 438F (226 C) thermal fuse to replace the original...It's a little higher heat cut-off than what the original calls for (and a little larger, too), but Radioshack didn't have the one that I wanted...

It's stock # 270-1321
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

And another great save on what could have been a costly repair. Although using a 10 amp thermal fuse is better than nothing, this over rated fuse shouldn't be used by itself and counted on to blow when either temperatures or amperage is exceeded as they're not likely to occur. I would suggest a slight addition to 'protect' your repairs - wiring in another fuse with the appropriate lower amperage on the power lead. There's enough room to splice in an inline fuse. Start with a 5A fuse and see. This way, this lower amperage fuse can protect the thermal fuse since its not expected to burn out. Better to replace a 5A fuse than burn out the compressor at 10 amps. If the 5A fuse blows then you know something's wrong. If not, you have a happy compressor.
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
And another great save on what could have been a costly repair. Although using a 10 amp thermal fuse is better than nothing, this over rated fuse shouldn't be used by itself and counted on to blow when either temperatures or amperage is exceeded as they're not likely to occur. I would suggest a slight addition to 'protect' your repairs - wiring in another fuse with the appropriate lower amperage on the power lead. There's enough room to splice in an inline fuse. Start with a 5A fuse and see. This way, this lower amperage fuse can protect the thermal fuse since its not expected to burn out. Better to replace a 5A fuse than burn out the compressor at 10 amps. If the 5A fuse blows then you know something's wrong. If not, you have a happy compressor.
Thanks, fdryer. That's a good idea.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

And if you're a real DIYr, rewind the coil....

I did this for my toyota:

Before:


After:









22 gauge enameled wire if you need to know..
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Ha!! My hat's off to you, sir!
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1



Didn't last...

My wife drove it 70 miles one way to make a doctor appointment, and on the trip back, it blew the fuse. The compressor is heating up too much and, evidently, still starving for oil/system clogged back up--sounding a little crunchy.

So, we're going to fix it right this time.

A few questions:

Will the aerosol flush do a decent of cleaning the lines and evaporator? If so, would one can do the trick, or should I go ahead and buy two? They're tall cans, about the size of the jumbo carb cleaners you see....I'm trying to keep costs down as much as possible. Is the condenser flushable at all, or are the pathways too small on the S-series?

Also, will a venturi style vacuum pump from HF be sufficient with a 26-gallon compressor? (Not sure of the specs, it's a borrowed Dewalt-- I think it might have a max of 180 psi, and at least 5 SCFM).

Thanks
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Before considering a flush job, no one asked why this coil burned up the first time. Let's start from the beginning with how you posted repairing a blown coil.

1-Was this system 'topped off' repeatedly or repaired from a major malfunction?

2-If this is the first repair, was the system evacuated before R134a/oil refilled the system? And how much oil was added?

3-Was this system opened to the outside during coil repairs or left intact without disconnecting the two hoses?

Without mentioning the state of the system before coil repairs or how you refilled the system, there are no presumptions on the quality of repairs as far as evacuating the system before recharging the system and if any oil was needed. Anytime the a/c system is compromised whether refrigerant leaked out or opened (line disconnected), the best repair involves using an electric vacuum pump to evacuated a system of any air and moisture as this is the minimum requirement to have any success in restoring full a/c function and guarantee long term reliability. To do otherwise, like disconnect a line and reconnect it while assuming no air/moisture went in is just gambling on how long this will last with a refill.

What wasn't asked was how this compressor came to burn out its clutch coil. There can be several explanations that may fit; internal compressor failure from binding - lack of continuous oil lubrication preventing normal free running, excessive refrigerant causing higher than normal operating pressures and over heat, sealer used to attempt fixing a leak that may act to block normal refrigerant flow (the equivalent of blood coagulating in the blood stream) and cause higher pressures in the compressor, and a worn clutch slipping to create heat. If the coil shorted then the thermal fuse worked as designed the first and second time. As mentioned by another member, coil resistance should be approximately 3-5 ohms, no less as a lower resistance would suggest a near short and cause more current to flow than required. Less than 5 amps are needed to power most coils.

A complete system flush would mean disconnecting every line to have access to the evaporator coils, lines, condenser coils, etc.. The compressor, if in good working condition (no noisiness suggesting wear) is simply drained of all oil before refilling with fresh PAG 46 in specified amounts. Draining old oil should reveal the condition of the system as new oil is almost colorless. The condenser coils are difficult to flush as they're narrow tubes and of cross flow instead of serpentine in one continuous length as R12 condenser coils were made. Theoretically, a gallon of flush solvent may be required to clean everything if compressor wear shows aluminum shavings floating in drained oil. The vanes used in our compressors literally wipe against the compressor chamber wall and oil provides the friction free lubricant against metal to metal contact. If you're familiar with Mazda's rotary engine, the rotor also rubs against the engine block chamber walls and use oil to slide against without scraping off aluminum. Steel vanes with rounded edges contact the compressor wall as they're moved around in our compressors. My picture album shows the insides of a typical Saturn compressor.

The best vacuum pump is an electric one. The pump using compressed air is second best and does require large volumes of air as well as pressure but won't provide a complete vacuum compared to electric pumps. If you have Autozone, they may have a vacuum pump and gauges for loan to keep costs down. There will be miscellaneous items needed too like a can tap, adapters, R134a, oil, and package of O-rings, etc.. When a system is flushed, new oil is poured into the major parts to distribute oil and allow immediate compressor lubrication. Just pouring oil into the compressor doesn't ensure lubrication; oil in set amounts poured into the compressor, condenser and evap coils will let this oil circulate back to the suction side for immediate lubrication. Less than 6-ounces is needed. Specific info can be given if needed.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbs2212 View Post
:
Also, will a venturi style vacuum pump from HF be sufficient with a 26-gallon compressor? (Not sure of the specs, it's a borrowed Dewalt-- I think it might have a max of 180 psi, and at least 5 SCFM).
If you're patient.......

First the specs of the venturi pumps are way too optimistic.

If they say it pulls a vacuum at 80 psi and 4 scfm you'll probably need 100 psi and 8 scfm.........


110 psi to 120 psi is probablly about right to get the most vacuum.

I do it with my old cambell hausfield 20 gallon compressor, but I have to be sneaky about it.

The vacuum pump is hooked up directly to the air compressor ( no hoses ).

I let the compressor run until it's just about ready to shutdown (120psi), then open the air fully to the vacuum pump.

Open the valve on your gauge set to pull vacuum.

As the compressor can't quite pump enough air, I'm slowly losing the battle; and the output pressure keeps droppin. At 95-100 psi I close the valve on the gauge set (to preserve the vacuum I got so far), then shut off the air flow to the vacuum pump.

Let the compressor catch up to 120 psi

repeat.


With 180 psi, you'll can regulate the output pressure to 110-115 and have longer run times if the compressor air flow isn't quite enough......
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Electromagnetic coils are used to make clutch of the vehicles as well as other things like AC. These is a very strong coil and these parts cannot be broken easily. These coils are used to bind different electronic products like tattoo machine and pumps too.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Electromagnetic coils are used to make clutch of the vehicles as well as other things like AC. These is a very strong coil and these parts cannot be broken easily.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
And another great save on what could have been a costly repair. Although using a 10 amp thermal fuse is better than nothing, this over rated fuse shouldn't be used by itself and counted on to blow when either temperatures or amperage is exceeded as they're not likely to occur. I would suggest a slight addition to 'protect' your repairs - wiring in another fuse with the appropriate lower amperage on the power lead. There's enough room to splice in an inline fuse. Start with a 5A fuse and see. This way, this lower amperage fuse can protect the thermal fuse since its not expected to burn out. Better to replace a 5A fuse than burn out the compressor at 10 amps. If the 5A fuse blows then you know something's wrong. If not, you have a happy compressor.
Which raises the question, why not solid wire where the fuse was, and rig the external 5 amp replaceable in line and be done wi it?

But, anyone have the radio shack number for the 5 amp internal?

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Old 04-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Well, first you have to remove the coil from your compressor and verify access to the thermal fuse. If you don't know then you may be getting ahead of yourself as there are many configurations of compressor coils - some are sealed permanently in epoxy and difficult to impossible to replace/repair while others are accessible for replacement. There are no one size fits all coils. Finding a thermal fuse is the easy part.

If a wire was all that was needed to circumvent the purpose of thermal fuses then they would be used. You really don't understand the purpose of thermal fuses in the big picture........................... There are millions of thermal fuses that never fail. Something caused the coil(s) to over heat and its not from over current.

Are you aware that thermal fuses are in every toaster oven and electric coffee pot?
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Last edited by fdryer; 04-23-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Well, first you have to remove the coil from your compressor and verify access to the thermal fuse. If you don't know then you may be getting ahead of yourself as there are many configurations of compressor coils - some are sealed permanently in epoxy and difficult to impossible to replace/repair while others are accessible for replacement. There are no one size fits all coils. Finding a thermal fuse is the easy part.

If a wire was all that was needed to circumvent the purpose of thermal fuses then they would be used. You really don't understand the purpose of thermal fuses in the big picture........................... There are millions of thermal fuses that never fail. Something caused the coil(s) to over heat and its not from over current.

Are you aware that thermal fuses are in every toaster oven and electric coffee pot?
Actually, that may be the single thing I DID know about thermal protection fuses!
What caused it is the question. It ran all year last year in the extreme heat...then apparently died when I turned it on in the winter time,to defrost.
I will pull the clutch over the weekend, but I know even less about clutches than I do thermal fuses...
I take it this cannot be done with the compressor still mounted.
OK, ONCE PULLED from this '01 sc2, the clutch comes off with a puller.
Is there a link showing what type of puller can be used for this, or how to make one specific? Or harbor freight link, maybe?
I assume a center bolt secures the clutch before one attempts to pull the clutch?

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Old 04-23-2013, 07:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Look at the gap. Too large a gap from normal wear and tear over the years can cause the gap to widen some from metal to metal friction as clutch plates engage pulley faces. One way to make heat from slipping clutches. There's always some wear going on and most systems don't show any appreciable wear unless its checked. Who checks clutch gaps? I don't. Another reason for thermal fuses to open, in addition to larger gap wear causing heating, oil allowing clutch plates to slip or excessive overfilling of systems. Overfilling simply makes a compressor heat up more from higher pressures generated. Look up a temperature/pressure chart for R134a and scan across 175 psi for the temperature equivalent............ Ever put your hand on a compressor in HOT summer temps with the a/c going full tilt? Try putting your hand on the top of the condenser coil. Compressors normally won't exceed 250F (approx.) at high operating temperatures. Thermal fuses are rated above 400F to melt. High operating temperatures felt at the clutch coil can result from one or two reasons. Take a guess. If you can leave your hand on a hot compressor for a minute without suffering first degree burns then its operating well below 400F. A chicken can roast at 400F................

Search these threads within Saturnfans and you'll likely come across a recent member replacing his clutch coil for practice on a junk yard compressor. Pictures included. This may be here in the S-series forums or in the other forums but its here as I replied to that thread. You can look in my album for a disassembled compressor (for show and tell). A special puller is made but some of us use 'other' methods, whatever it takes to do the job. Some clutch plates fall off while others are reluctant to come off the compressor shaft once the center nut or bolt is removed.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Clutch Electromagnetic coil fix. 2001 SC1

Have a good source to get the fuse?
RadioShack has no clue...

Rebar


Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Excellent pictures for anyone that has managed to determine a blown clutch coil and removed it from their compressor.

Please don't post misinformation about thermal fuse specs unless you're willing to accept the wrath from anyone being misled and finding out later. From the service manual for your '01 SC1; A thermal link fuse is incorporated into the coil. If the temperature of the coil exceeds 214C +/- 3C (417F +/- 37F), the link will melt creating an open coil circuit. When the coil is de-energized the drive plate releases the pulley and the compressor stops pumping. A typical coil resistance will measure 3.22 +/- 0.08 ohms at 22C (72F).

Simple Ohms Law for anyone; E (volts) = I (amperage) X R (resistance)

Using given values then amperage (I) would be; E divided by R

12.5 volts divided by 3.22 ohms = 3.88 amps

14.3 volts divided by 3.22 ohms = 4.44 amps

Suggesting a 1 amp fuse would most likely blow it immediately upon power up.............
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