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Old 01-01-2021, 11:47 AM   #1
Rj 2000 LS2
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Default Saturn Brake Lines

Before I purchase a flare tool. Can someone verify this is what the brake flare should look like?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1583265276
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

I don't know if the information you have for the tool is correct or not, but you must correctly identify the type of bubble flare that you have. Use of the wrong bubble flare will result in leaks. Bubble flares are not interchangeable due to shape and thread differences.
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Before I purchase a flare tool. Can someone verify this is what the brake flare should look like?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1583265276
Short answer is yes
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Short answer is yes
I should have added that this is what a bubble flare should look like. Make sure that you need a bubble flare. I believe the L Series are all bubble flare.
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Here is where I got that photo from. It appears to be the correct tool (and inexpensive tool) to make the metric bubble flare used in L-Series. Correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONxe5Ixs-Jg
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Here is where I got that photo from. It appears to be the correct tool (and inexpensive tool) to make the metric bubble flare used in L-Series. Correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONxe5Ixs-Jg
Looks correct to me.
I strongly suggest you use copper-nickel tubing.
Much easier to bend and form. More corrosion resistant.
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Old 01-02-2021, 03:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Yes, I plan on using the copper-Nickel brake line.
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Old 02-09-2021, 10:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Slow progress. I broke loose the firewall connections and re-tightened them to prevent fluid from running out. I got one rear caliper line loose, but the other one is not moving. I've got flex hose mounts disconnected- what a beotch that was! The garage is very cold so not much activity each day. I had a surprise yesterday when all the brake fluid ran out the rear caliper line which I thought was tightened, but was not. I made two brake line plugs for the fire wall connections to block the fluid from the rear and then I filled the brake reservoir. The question is... will I be able to bleed the air out of the system? I understand the method of bleeding the brakes, but I am not sure I'll get all the air out from the master and ABS components? Any advice?
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Slow progress. I broke loose the firewall connections and re-tightened them to prevent fluid from running out. I got one rear caliper line loose, but the other one is not moving. I've got flex hose mounts disconnected- what a beotch that was! The garage is very cold so not much activity each day. I had a surprise yesterday when all the brake fluid ran out the rear caliper line which I thought was tightened, but was not. I made two brake line plugs for the fire wall connections to block the fluid from the rear and then I filled the brake reservoir. The question is... will I be able to bleed the air out of the system? I understand the method of bleeding the brakes, but I am not sure I'll get all the air out from the master and ABS components? Any advice?

Bench bleed is usually recommended, but honestly it's a PITA. You can take some short scrap brake lines, flare one end and thread them into the ports with the appropriate flare nuts and just bend them back up into the reservoir so they're under the level of the fluid, and pump the master that way on the car. Usually pretty not-messy. If you do bench bleed it, read up on how to do it properly because technique matters.

Alternatively I bought a cheap vacuum bleeder system and it works like a charm, never had an issue with it. Definitely pick one up if you plan on doing more than one car in your lifetime. I usually bleed everything that way and then have a person pump the brakes a couple more times just to make sure the pedal is good and all residual air is out.



And seriously, if you plan on doing brake lines on a lot of cars, pick one of these up. It is SO FAST, effortless, and perfect every time. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900314
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Old 02-26-2021, 05:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Well, as predicted by others... 4 out of 10 unions are leaking! I've purchased the tool (Inline Tube TFL03) that makes the bubble flare, but I don't know if this is the correct type flare or not! I researched this extensively and couldn't find much about it. Almost everything nowadays is double flare. Below is the only photo that indicates the bubble flare differences. It shows two different types of bubble flares. Which one does the Saturn's use? Does anyone know this stuff?

This is the my first brake line job and YES, I'm sure I can't make perfect flares, but the flares I made look perfect compared to the Inline Tube channel showing how to use their tool. Inline Tube did send me the wrong adaptors to connect the line to the flex cable and flex cable to short caliper line. However, they quickly sent me the proper adaptors. I had to buy 4 adaptors because they don't make the flex cable with the Saturn ends. Everything is a mystery to me and I'm getting sick of this!

It looks like I need to start over and waste more money! It sure would have been easier if it wasn't -10 F during this brake line replacement job!
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Old 02-26-2021, 05:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

I found this video, Today, that shows the differences of the SAE and DIN brake nuts! I have to go back look at the old connectors and compare them with the new connectors. They all had the extra barrel without threads and I thought that was the only difference. I did request the proper connectors when I purchased them. Whether or not I got the proper connectors is the question. And, if my flare tool is SAE or DIN. The tool does not specific SAE or DIN Flares. It just says Metric Flare tool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4sTJlWCa9k
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Old 02-27-2021, 12:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

I believe they are DIN Metric flares.
If you look at one of the old nuts and tubes you can confirm this.
Note the difference in your picture between the bubble flare nuts. The SAE has a inside taper at the end. The DIN has a square shoulder.
Are you sure you got the correct unions ?
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Old 02-27-2021, 03:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Yes, the brake nuts I purchased are DIN 10.1 connectors. They are correct.

I am pretty upset with Inline Tube. The tool they sell and I see it at Auto Zone and other places... it makes SAE Bubble Flares and they call it Metric Bubble Flare Tool which is BS! It is not a DIN (flat on tube side) bubble! The photo they show of the bubble which this tool (TLF03) makes is NOT a DIN Bubble flare. They are lying, it makes an SAE Bubble Flare not a DIN Bubble flare! Not only did they lie, but they charged me a lot of money for the two 8" flex cable with adaptors to connect to the DIN nuts. 4 adaptors were over $60!!! and then they sent the wrong adaptors and had to send me 4 more afterwards. So I had to wait on them to get me the "right" adaptors. I'm not even sure they are right. They leak like a sieve. The SAE Bubble Flares can not mate cleanly with the DIN unions... you might get one to seal, but it is nearly impossible! Either way, I don't trust it!

I am finally understanding the differences between all types of brake unions. More than I wanted to know! Inline Tube is selling junk and advertising it as a Metric Double Flare tool! It is almost criminal! What type of low life sells Brake tools/components that could very well put someone's life in jeopardy! When I finish this job I want to know the unions are drier than a 500 year old skeleton!

I am done trying to save money now that I have wasted over $125! I am going to buy this flaring tool from Eastman https://www.eastwood.com/professiona...ring-tool.html

I will likely replace everything I did this far because I have no idea if the other components they sold me are truly DINs or something else!
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:24 AM   #14
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Looks like a nice tool.
Here is another site that has lots of information and
brake line components.
http://www.fedhillusa.com/
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Eastman Tools are ordered!
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Update: I had to purchase new tube because I had properly install the tube and then learned of the inline tube tool leaks and had to rip the new used tube our the vehicle. I then ordered the Eastwood bender and the straightener (wife couldn't understand such logic, a bender and a straightener, " That makes no sense", but items arrived regardless of her protests).


The Eastwood flare tool can only be used in a vise, so I straightened the used tube and got an exact measurements for the short caliper runs, the passengers side run and the driver's side long run. I didn't drop the gas tank. I didn't want to find the any gremlins up in there! These are the measurements I used for the brake lines:

Both short caliper runs are 21 1/2 inches in length

Passenger side run is 136" in length

Driver's side run is 150 1/2 inches in length

I see I labeled my cheat sheet wrong concerning the length of the brakes line runs. So take them with a grain of salt. I did need to make a pig tail in one run because it was too long.

The exciting news is NOT ONE CONNECTION LEAKED! They are all bone dry and what a relief that is! I've been dealing with the BS for months, waiting on weather, waiting on parts, getting the wrong parts, waiting on new parts, buying crap flare tool and waiting on the new tool. It's been a hell of a time! Brandon, I feel your pain man! It happens to everyone who decides to twist a wrench!

I just finished tying up the brake lines and securing them the best I can. I briefly bled the back brakes, but I have more air in the system to purge. I've had the brake lines disconnected for so long, I failed to remember which long line attaches to which connector at the firewall!

I can trace the lines from the antilock brake module and they are labeled LR (Left Rear) and RR (Right Rear). Why in the hell wouldn't label them PR (Passenger Rear and DR (Drivers Rear), why that would make too much sense. So the question is which is which? Is the Right referring to the Passenger Side? And the Left to Driver's Side? or Vs. vs?

I just don't want to reverse these because the antilock brake would likely toss me into doughnuts applying antilock to the wrong side! If I have it connected wrong at the firewall, I am going to bleed the master cylinder and I can set it correctly there. I'm dyslexic so this is a hard task for me. Following the lines might require some painting LOL.

I'll grab a few pictures to add to the is thread.
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:10 PM   #17
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Information Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Rj 2000 LS2,

If you need me to snap any section; let me know.

I have no idea what you are working on here regarding your current situation. However I took some pictures of 1 section. It may or may not assist.

Part 1/2:

Best of luck!

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Old 04-22-2021, 05:11 PM   #18
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Information Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Part 2/2:
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File Type: jpg 7_20210422_135926.jpg (56.7 KB, 2 views)
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

Okay, no leaks, lines are bled, no air in lines, tires ON, but NO ignition Battery is toast! It was weak before and I suppose sitting for 4 months didn't help. I didn't want to charge it because my charger over charges it and battery acidic will flow. I just need to get a new battery.

Below are a few photos of the new lines installed. The red plastic tool kit is the In-line Tube kit which makes SAE Bubble Flares, but it can't make a descent DIN Bubble Flare as their advertising so claims in a photo of a perfect DIN Bubble Flare. It might work well for SAE Bubble Flares and/or double flares. Nice part of this tool is it can be used underneath the vehicle, but don't use it for Saturn's Bubble flares because they use DIN Bubble Flares NOT SAE Bubble Flares and there is a substantial difference, DIN Nuts will leak if used with SAE Bubble Flares. Yes, I learned the hard expensive way!

The tool I ended up using is an EastWood flaring tool. This tool will make all kinds of flares with the supplied dies. It made a perfect DIN Bubble Flare on my first try and every time after that. I highly recommend you get this tool if you plan on doing any of your own brake line repairs. I also bought their straightener and bender tools. They are worth it!
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Saturn Brake Lines

A few more photos
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