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Old 02-15-2005, 02:06 AM   #1
Caprice
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Mad I must be missing something...

Okay, I'm just starting to get a tad frustrated...

I'm a member of a few other boards, and I've noticed that every single time I bring up Saturn people go into bashaholic mode... What is the cause of the animosity toward Saturn that I see pretty much everwhere I turn? Can anyone help me understand why Saturn has such a poor image with so many people?

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Old 02-15-2005, 02:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

I'm not sure why either, but I've noticed it too. Especially on general car-talk forums. People are very accepting of the Sky but inherantly hate it because it's a Saturn. What gives?
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Old 02-15-2005, 06:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

A lot of people hate domestic compacts
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Old 02-15-2005, 08:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by romac
A lot of people hate domestic compacts

Pinto, Bobcat, Escort, EXP, Tempo, Topaz, Vega, Pacer, Gremlin, Omni, Horizon, K-Car, Monza, Cavalier, Sunbird, Chevette, T1000, etc. Based on this short list (I'm sure I missed a few), can you blame most people for not liking domestic small cars?

I myself know that a Saturn is worlds better than anything I mentioned above, but the "shroud of crapola" still hangs over the domestic compact in a lot of peoples minds.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Jealousy.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

I think that asking here might not yield the best answers simply because people here must at least want to understand what a Saturn is, etc.

Why not just ask them on those other forums and when they give their reasons shoot them down one by one with the real truth? If you need help.. post here, I am sure you will get plenty of ammunition to use.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Funny how the Geo Prizim and the Toyota Corolla whic are basically the same and the resales are different and more people buy the Toyota.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

I think it's because there are so many people who think that if it's not a Honda or a Toyota it must be crap.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

The Prizm is crap compared to its source, the Corolla.

In 1987, I wanted something better than my Chevette. Toyo dealers wanted you to do a full deep knee bend and spread your cheeks, so I got the Chevy Nova (Prizm's first name).

What a mistake. Everything Chevy did fell apart. The interior, seats, paint, headliner, etc.

Chevy even tried to copy Toyo's one piece grille. Unfortunately, the Chevy still used sealed beam headlights while the Corolla had composites serviced from the rear.

To change a bulb on the Nova, you had to pull the entire grille out of the car. This was confirmed by dealer techs.

The Nova's carburetor never worked right in cold weather despite a TSB.

Car was a complete POS compared to the Corolla even though they both came from the GM/Toyota plant in Fremont, CA.

Never thought of GM again until Saturn since GM can screw up a wet dream with their trash engineering & design.
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Saturns are cars for dorks. Just look at the ads. Doesn't everybody make fun of the dorks and geeks?
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Old 02-15-2005, 09:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
The Prizm is crap compared to its source, the Corolla.

In 1987, I wanted something better than my Chevette. Toyo dealers wanted you to do a full deep knee bend and spread your cheeks, so I got the Chevy Nova (Prizm's first name).

What a mistake. Everything Chevy did fell apart. The interior, seats, paint, headliner, etc.

Chevy even tried to copy Toyo's one piece grille. Unfortunately, the Chevy still used sealed beam headlights while the Corolla had composites serviced from the rear.

To change a bulb on the Nova, you had to pull the entire grille out of the car. This was confirmed by dealer techs.

The Nova's carburetor never worked right in cold weather despite a TSB.

Car was a complete POS compared to the Corolla even though they both came from the GM/Toyota plant in Fremont, CA.

Never thought of GM again until Saturn since GM can screw up a wet dream with their trask engineering & design.
GM had very little input into this so called "collaboration", except for providing a once unproductive and close to being shuttered plant @ Fremont.
Beyond the headlight thing,and some styling differences, everything else including paint and interior was shared with the Corolla. What you got was a classic "lemon". There weren't two sets of workers to build the Nova and Corolla separately. You got a bad one. And it could just as well have been the Toyota version built @ Nummi.
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Old 02-15-2005, 10:36 AM   #12
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkle bik
Jealousy.
Thats what I thought.
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Old 02-15-2005, 12:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomH
Pinto, Bobcat, Escort, EXP, Tempo, Topaz, Vega, Pacer, Gremlin, Omni, Horizon, K-Car, Monza, Cavalier, Sunbird, Chevette, T1000, etc. Based on this short list (I'm sure I missed a few), can you blame most people for not liking domestic small cars?

I myself know that a Saturn is worlds better than anything I mentioned above, but the "shroud of crapola" still hangs over the domestic compact in a lot of peoples minds.
Hey, Gremlins were cool.

And for that matter, Chrysler's K-car variants were also capable of being very cool. They were even fairly reliable, even if the panel fit and finish kind of stunk.
 
Old 02-15-2005, 01:12 PM   #14
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Thumbs Up Re: I must be missing something...

I say, let them bash. It'll help keep demand down and therefore prices for the rest of us, and I'll be driving past them too quickly when I get my RL for them to read the Saturn logos on the car.
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Old 02-15-2005, 01:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghIGiveUp
Chrysler's K-car variants were also capable of being very cool. They were even fairly reliable, even if the panel fit and finish kind of stunk.

IMHO, the only K car that was even close to being cool was the 92 Daytona IROC, and calling it cool is being nice. And don't forget the 2.2 liter engines hunger for head gaskets, hardly what I'd call reliable.
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Old 02-15-2005, 01:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

I don't care why... But they can all kiss my ass.
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Old 02-15-2005, 03:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Yes, what GreyDuck said! I second that.
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Old 02-15-2005, 03:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

A They read Consumer Reports
and/or
B They read Car magazines geared towards performance
and/or
C THEY ARE IDIOTS!!!!!
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Old 02-15-2005, 03:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

As far as the Corollas go, my family bought a brand new Chevy Nova in 1989? (i was like 5) and we had it for years, sold it to my uncle, and last we knew it had 244,000 miles on it and it was still going strong.

On another factor, someone on my other home, www.67-72chevytrucks.com brought up the Saturn Sky, and a guy immediatly said anything buying anything with a Saturn emblem on it was out of their mind, raving about how they were the crappiest cars ever, worst handling, and slow. He had no idea what he was talking about, and shut up once i mentioed the many strong points of the old S-series.

I used to not like Saturns that much until i drove one while looking for a small car and fell in love...they seemed much more solid than many of the imports i drive and was far cheaper too. So i bought one and i love it.
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Old 02-15-2005, 06:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: I must be missing something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukecp
As far as the Corollas go, my family bought a brand new Chevy Nova in 1989? (i was like 5) and we had it for years, sold it to my uncle, and last we knew it had 244,000 miles on it and it was still going strong.

On another factor, someone on my other home, www.67-72chevytrucks.com brought up the Saturn Sky, and a guy immediatly said anything buying anything with a Saturn emblem on it was out of their mind, raving about how they were the crappiest cars ever, worst handling, and slow. He had no idea what he was talking about, and shut up once i mentioed the many strong points of the old S-series.

I used to not like Saturns that much until i drove one while looking for a small car and fell in love...they seemed much more solid than many of the imports i drive and was far cheaper too. So i bought one and i love it.
That's how it works. If people actually get into a Saturn they find them very rewarding to drive. I wonder how many Saturns your internet associate has ever driven, much less owned.
The experience you had with your Nova/Corolla was typical of the NUMMI cars and continues to be.
GM sent 240 people to Japan to work in the factory there to get the proper training which they used for training employees @ Fremont.The factory itself, long considered to be the worst among GM's properties with the least reliable and most difficult work force, became a model for Saturn [according to : "In The Rings Of Saturn" should anyone distrust the claim] as well as Lordstown [for the 95-2005 Cavalier/ Sunfire run]. GM may well have used the Japanese techniques from which the NUMMI process was derived in other GM plants in NA.
That plant went from one of the worst to one of the best of GM's.
Those Novas and Prizms were the least defective and most reliable of any of GM's cars of that period, having had fewer problems, warranty claims or consumer complaints.
Toyota got it's foot in the door with this factory, applied what it learned about US workers and suppliers and expanded from there to the point where it now employs hundreds of thousands of people and builds millions of cars on US soil. GM got new ways to do things and a portion of the product with which to supply their own dealers.
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