SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-09-2020, 06:36 PM   #1
dawnshute
New Member
dawnshute is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Default 2004 L300 running rough

My 2004 L300 is running rough. Code reader says PO300. The following items have already been changed out: Plugs, electronic ignition module, plug boots, oxygen sensor upstream and the ignition coils. The auxiliary fan comes on and off and occasionally the check engine light comes on. But this morning the auxiliary fan came on immediately and the check engine light started flashing. I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Any suggestions would be so very appreciated. Thank you.
dawnshute is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-09-2020, 06:59 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

P0300, general misfire without pointing to one or several cylinders. P0301-P0306 points to one of six cylinders. Without the OBD II diagnostics able to point to one or several cylinder misfiring, a different path is needed to troubleshoot general misfiring. You mention ignition module and ignition coils. Our L300 V6 engines use only two ignition coil packs, one for cylinders 1, 3, 5 and the other coil pack for cylinders 2, 4, 6. No ignition module. The ecm controls the two coil packs to generate spark to each cylinder.

One clue you gave was the engine light flashing. Flashing engine light means major misfiring occurring with unburned fuel entering the exhaust system. Unburned fuel fed into the catalytic converter(s) simply adds fuel to the fire already occurring in catcons to convert exhaust gases to harmless byproducts at high heat. Fuel forces a higher heat in catcons and lead to premature destruction. Cooking a catcon to destruction with raw unburned fuel can destroy it within 50 miles. The flashing check engine light is warning you to stop driving it this way.

How many miles on this car? Is this car driven less than 15 miles a day?
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 09:23 PM   #3
dawnshute
New Member
dawnshute is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Thank you for your reply. She has 142,000 miles on her and yes I usually drive less than 15 miles per day. She is a 4 cylinder not a 6. I am not going to be driving her until I can have someone come out here and look at her.
dawnshute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 10:41 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

A 4cyl 2.2L is an L200, not L300. With this info, it explains replacing the ignition control module and ignition coil pack as two ways to correct a misfire problem. Unfortunately, you found these two parts didn't correct the problem.

At 142k miles and less than 15 miles of driving per day, this type of driving would be described as short trips where the engine warms up for a brief period. Short trip driving results in issues different from longer driving. Oil drain and filter replacement are recommended at either three or six month cycles since motor oil never reaches and remains at operating temperatures to boil out overnight condensation (seen as steam in the exhaust). Moisture remaining in oil eventually turns into an acidic stew to eat away metals. And the exhaust system may suffer from short trip driving.

Catalytic converters in normal everyday driving tends to last well past new car warranty. Engine temperatures cycling from cold to hot also means the catcon undergoes the same cold/heat/cold stress cycles while converting exhaust gases to harmless byproducts. Short trip driving may accelerate premature catcon demise. Most catcons suffering premature damage are from using leaded fuel, never correcting misfire issues, tampering with the EFI system in hopes of performance gains, etc. Damaged catcons disintegrate from within and slowly block off normal exhaust flow, eventually choking the engine from running. I describe this scenario as the engine constipation with odd running issues difficult for most diyers to diagnose.

A time tested diy test for a damaged catcon blocking the exhaust system and generating error codes like P0300 is to remove the upstream exhaust manifold O2 sensor as an alternate exhaust path. Starting should result in a LOUD exhaust but more importantly allow a suspected blocked exhaust system to flow easily thru the alternate exhaust hole in the manifold. Misfiring may disappear with renewed engine power. Removing the upstream O2 sensor may result in misfiring going away. If not, something else may be causing misfiring.

Engine compression testing should show at least 185 psi per cylinder. Losing compression can result in lower power. Lost compression can result in misfire error codes. A compression gauge borrowed from Autozone can help assess mechanical issues.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 11:27 PM   #5
02 LW300
Advanced Member
02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold
 
02 LW300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 747
 

2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Saturn changed the names of their cars and some of the changes do not make sense. Your 2004 L 300 could be what I consider an L200, that is a four cylinder car. All 2004 model year L series cars were called L300 no matter what engine they came with.

Back to your running problem, I agree with fdryer you could have a plugged exhaust. Removing the upstream O2 sensor will tell the tale. If the car quits misfiring and runs as it should an exhaust repair should solve your problem.

If this does not solve the misfire then a compression check should be the next test.
Andy
...
2002 L200/5 Loaded, over 1/4 million miles!
02 LW300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 12:16 PM   #6
dawnshute
New Member
dawnshute is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

I learn something new everyday. I was going off the L300 emblem on the back of my wagon but apparently if it is a 4 cylinder it is an L200. Who knew! Thank you for your advise. we will borrow the compression tester to see how her compression is.
dawnshute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 08:18 PM   #7
floridasl22002
Senior Member
floridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,602

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawnshute View Post
I learn something new everyday. I was going off the L300 emblem on the back of my wagon but apparently if it is a 4 cylinder it is an L200. Who knew! Thank you for your advise. we will borrow the compression tester to see how her compression is.
Don't guess what you have, determine what you have. Ignore the badges as they are confusing at 2004/2005. If yours is a V6, look under the hood and the top of the engine will have 3 pipes coming out toward you and another of the same 3 pipes going toward the windshield. The pipes and the top of the engine cover are Silver. In the middle it should have a label which says 3.0 Liter V6 in big letters.

The 4 cylinder has a Silver top to the engine and should have a label on it which will tell you what the engine is. I can't tell you what the label says on the 4 cylinder as my son's a V6.

Once you know what car engine you have, it's probably a good idea to update your profile to show year and model number and importantly the engine type. That way you can be assured of accurate advice
floridasl22002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:30 PM   #8
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Dizzy Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post

At 142k miles and less than 15 miles of driving per day, this type of driving would be described as short trips where the engine warms up for a brief period. Short trip driving results in issues different from longer driving. Oil drain and filter replacement are recommended at either three or six month cycles since motor oil never reaches and remains at operating temperatures to boil out overnight condensation (seen as steam in the exhaust). Moisture remaining in oil eventually turns into an acidic stew to eat away metals. And the exhaust system may suffer from short trip driving.

Catalytic converters in normal everyday driving tends to last well past new car warranty. Engine temperatures cycling from cold to hot also means the catcon undergoes the same cold/heat/cold stress cycles while converting exhaust gases to harmless byproducts. Short trip driving may accelerate premature catcon demise. Most catcons suffering premature damage are from using leaded fuel, never correcting misfire issues, tampering with the EFI system in hopes of performance gains, etc. Damaged catcons disintegrate from within and slowly block off normal exhaust flow, eventually choking the engine from running. I describe this scenario as the engine constipation with odd running issues difficult for most diyers to diagnose.

A time tested diy test for a damaged catcon blocking the exhaust system and generating error codes like P0300 is to remove the upstream exhaust manifold O2 sensor as an alternate exhaust path. Starting should result in a LOUD exhaust but more importantly allow a suspected blocked exhaust system to flow easily thru the alternate exhaust hole in the manifold. Misfiring may disappear with renewed engine power. Removing the upstream O2 sensor may result in misfiring going away. If not, something else may be causing misfiring.
I have the same 2.2L L200 'cept it's a 2001. Mine's got ~150K.
It was running good for a good minute! I bought it about 1.5 years ago.

The other morning I went out and started the car and it began running very rough and the (I think) aux fan came on just like the [dawnshute] said. It was loud and I'd never heard it before. However, my check engine light didn't come on at all.

I've replaced all 4 spark plugs and will be replacing the boots & springs here in a few minutes. I checked the PCV tube and it wasn't clogged. I took out the IAC and I seemed to be able to adjust it to the .7" that the Chilton recommended. The o ring seemed (very) slightly stretched but not shredded or anything. My air filter is dirty but not overly dirty.

I started it up after replacing the spark plugs. They were very fouled & worn down on 2 of the cylinders ○[]○[] , and worn but not as much on the other two) []○[]○. It still had the problem like it was misfiring after starting again.

I'll also be trying to remove the upstream o2 censor to see if that fixed the problem (thereby diagnosing a clogged Cat) per your email. I've never replaced one of these, although I've done basic exhaust work in the past. Should I tuck tail and run it to a mechanic? I don't feel comfortable driving it right now, that's for sure.

My job is ~25 miles away and I drive on the freeway when I do go to work, so I think the oil should have been getting hot enough. I've been driving less than 15 mi per day for the last two months or so because of the 'RONA. Do you think this is a similar?

Thank you for your advice. More to come soon!
DanielH [{Vancouver, WA}]
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 07:33 PM   #9
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

DivinDanielH, although your '01 L200 seems to exhibit the same symptoms as dawnshute's engine, yours doesn't code. This unusual on one hand but not unexpected on the other. Not everything codes but it would be nice to have something to go by. As it is, plugs showing wear is one hint. Not enough info is given for anyone to make an opinion yet. Some more info may help.

What maintenance was done that you know of? At 100k miles, fuel filter should be replaced. Most misfiring issues are usually accompanied by error codes so this problem needs more diagnosing. Can you check compression? Autozone and Advance Auto have free loaners. A compression test can reveal mechanical state of health. Some suggest parts swapping. With new plugs not correcting misfiring, the ignition coil pack and ignition control module are suspect as well as associated wiring. I won't suggest coil pack or icm but they may be part of the problem. Examining wiring for chafing, damage, wear, etc, may be all you can do at this time. Members here may suggest other ideas.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 10:25 PM   #10
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Happy Re: 2004 L300 running rough :: 2001 LW 2.2L possibly same problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
DivinDanielH, although your '01 L200 seems to exhibit the same symptoms as dawnshute's engine, yours doesn't code. This unusual on one hand but not unexpected on the other. Not everything codes but it would be nice to have something to go by. As it is, plugs showing wear is one hint. Not enough info is given for anyone to make an opinion yet. Some more info may help.

What maintenance was done that you know of? At 100k miles, fuel filter should be replaced. Most misfiring issues are usually accompanied by error codes so this problem needs more diagnosing. Can you check compression? Autozone and Advance Auto have free loaners. A compression test can reveal mechanical state of health. Some suggest parts swapping. With new plugs not correcting misfiring, the ignition coil pack and ignition control module are suspect as well as associated wiring. I won't suggest coil pack or icm but they may be part of the problem. Examining wiring for chafing, damage, wear, etc, may be all you can do at this time. Members here may suggest other ideas.

Just got inside and washed up! Thanks for your quick reply's!

***The 'service engine soon' light does come on & flash, sorry for wasting time on that. Not sure if the 'ses' light flashing on a 2001 is the same as a check engine light flashing on a 2004. ***

I went over to the AutoZone and rented an OBD II checker (along with a shiny new o2 censor socket) and it did pull the same P0300 code! Engine Misfire Detected.

I pulled the o2 sensor and the engine firing did definitely seem to clean up. Not shaky or seeming to miss. Although, yes it was LOUD. Sorry apartment neighbors!

I'm thinking' I may go ahead and pull the trigger on the $400 cat. Luckily, it's literally 6 easy to reach connection points.

I've never used a compression tester before, so that would be uncharted territory for me, although I think I could make my father proud! He's an AMT.

What do you think about these cat cleaners they have like CataClean? I had dumped a bottle of HEET in the gas tank about a month ago, but I don't think that will do anything for my cat.

Cheers
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 04:54 AM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

All USA vehicles after 1996 are required to have emissions programs with OBD II. Prior to '96, OBD I monitored emissions. The SES (service engine soon), CEL (check engine light), and MIL (maintenance indicator light) all mean the same - emissions errors detected, generating universal error codes all manufacturers agreed to so generic readers can decode them. Your P0300 is the same error code for a Ferrari's P0300 except for the Ferrari being a bit more expensive to fix.

Be aware that the engine light turning on its one thing. The same engine light flashing means another more serious issue in addition to the error code - engine misfiring allowing unturned fuel to enter the exhaust system and into the catalytic converter. The catcon isn't designed to cook fuel but will burn it at a higher temperature resulting in damage to the catcon. Feed fuel to a fire and it burns hotter. If the flashing engine light continues while driving, the catcon can burn out in as little as 50 miles. Damaged catcons can disintegrate the high temperature ceramic substrate, porous to allow exhaust flow while converting exhaust into harmless byproducts. If the catcon becomes damaged, melting may crumble and choke off exhaust flow, creating the equivalent of engine constipation. Strange symptoms may occur.

The Left Coast state swears by catalytic cleaners. I don't have personal experience about them. At best, they're temporary band aids to pass emissions inspection and not a long term solution. I associate catcon cleaners to sealers touted in cans of refrigerant refills supposedly repairing leaks in vehicle ac systems. More damage occurs using ac sealer than repairs in a can fix. Once a catcon is damaged, you can't fix broke.

AMTs are supposed to be the mechanics mechanic with anything associated with aviation. A car engine that's fixed but still doesn't run right just won't go down the road right. Aircraft engines fixed by AMTs according to FAA regulations and suddenly running rough endangers all on board that aircraft in the air. A recent Pilatus PC-12 crashed right after taking off from engine issues. This aircraft is known as a very reliable one and this crash will bring light from the NTSB investigation to determine why. AMTs separate the unschooled hacks from licensed people. A hack can't work on a multi million dollar jet engine.

A compression test is part of car/truck/suv/motorcycle/lawnmower/garden tractor engine mechanical testing to determine if piston rings or valves are damaged.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 11:39 AM   #12
02 LW300
Advanced Member
02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold
 
02 LW300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 747
 

2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

I agree with Fdryer as usual, next step is a compression check. If I had a misfire I would have checked compression before installing the new plugs. Now you have to backtrack a little bit. If the compression checks all good and near equal, replace the coil pack. Coil pack failure is caused by running spark plugs past their designed life span. Regular non platinum plugs can wear out in as little as 12,000 miles. These cars came with some variation of a double platinum plug from the factory. The design life of double platinum is about 100,000 miles. The plugs in this engine fire every time time piston is at the top. So they wear faster than the plugs on the L300 3.0 v-6 engine. Sudden misfires on this engine are usually a coil pack failure.
...
2002 L200/5 Loaded, over 1/4 million miles!
02 LW300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 02:04 PM   #13
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Roll Eyes Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
I agree with Fdryer as usual, next step is a compression check. If I had a misfire I would have checked compression before installing the new plugs. Now you have to backtrack a little bit. If the compression checks all good and near equal, replace the coil pack. Coil pack failure is caused by running spark plugs past their designed life span. Regular non platinum plugs can wear out in as little as 12,000 miles. These cars came with some variation of a double platinum plug from the factory. The design life of double platinum is about 100,000 miles. The plugs in this engine fire every time time piston is at the top. So they wear faster than the plugs on the L300 3.0 v-6 engine. Sudden misfires on this engine are usually a coil pack failure.
If I were to remove that O2 sensor, though (which I did) and the misfire went away (which it did), wouldn't that diagnose the clogged cat as opposed to the ignition coil and/or Ignition Control Module (ICM)? Meaning the ICM is firing the coil pack more correctly with the less-restricted exhaust tubing?

Granted, the ICM and Coil Pack Module are together cheaper fixes than one direct-fit CAT.

Yes, I'm a terrible mechanic. That's why I work in Solar and am a Designer. However, I'm getting better/ more confident in my wrenching abilities.
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 02:25 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

^ Until you commented (no personal experience with 2.2L engine issues) I was under the belief most misfire issues with 2.2L engines were due to icm failure (cooking from sitting on the the engine?). Past threads seem to show this pattern so I presumed another possibility of icm failure. Your input about double firing on (standard) platinum plugs never mentioned in these forums on wearing out plugs sooner and if not replaced, causing irreparable damage to the coil pack. I was of the belief that coil packs are sturdier than ignition control modules.

With that said, one of my coil packs failed in my L300 V6. No icm as the ecm does the work to drive the two coil packs in a V6. My luck was borrowing a compression gauge from Autozone that failed to hold any compression on the cylinder giving the misfiring error code. I could have tried another one or even tried Advance Auto but this takes time and more effort. With a good history on this engine, I reluctantly came to the conclusion that the coil pack failed. A spark test wasn't conclusive as it appeared as all three coils fired. Injector was ruled out as I was able to smell fuel in the suspect cylinder. Replacing the coil pack fixed the problem. Engine just accrued around 105k miles. Spark plug replacement prior to coil pack failure displayed hardly any wear - remarkable testament to long life reliability of platinum tipped electrodes. I wanted to reuse them but I followed replacement procedures to ensure reliability and not have an unexpected plug failure at the most inopportune moment.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 02:44 PM   #15
02 LW300
Advanced Member
02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold02 LW300 is a splendid one to behold
 
02 LW300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 747
 

2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Seeming to clean up and actually driving fine with a load are two different things. I have not had a plugged cat ever throw a P0300 code with rough running. I have had a restricted cat cause low power but not a misfire. There is always some sort of a cat code mixed in.
I would go back and verify that the engine has good compression. Then if good drive the car with the o2 removed at least around the parking lot to verify that the car runs fine. If so replace the cat, but I would bet that the car still misfires.
...
2002 L200/5 Loaded, over 1/4 million miles!
02 LW300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 02:53 PM   #16
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,246
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

My reply in post#14 was meant to reply to post#12.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 03:15 PM   #17
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
Seeming to clean up and actually driving fine with a load are two different things. I have not had a plugged cat ever throw a P0300 code with rough running. I have had a restricted cat cause low power but not a misfire. There is always some sort of a cat code mixed in.
I would go back and verify that the engine has good compression. Then if good drive the car with the o2 removed at least around the parking lot to verify that the car runs fine. If so replace the cat, but I would bet that the car still misfires.
***2nd update on the stupid light - The SES light comes on and stays on-steady, and only flashes during the initial start-up***

I've gone out and tried the OBD II (Innova 3100 lat) tester again, but this time while the engine was running. This time it pulled a P0304 (cylinder 4 misfire).

I'll also note that the device under I/M MONITOR STATUS shows (3) red flashing dots: CAT, EVA, AND O2S. After reviewing the device [www dot innova dot com/Support/Download/3100i/CanOBD2-Diagnostic-Tool-ABS-Color-Screen"] manual online, pages 10-12. I see that these indicate standard 'monitors'. These red flashing ones mean the tests are supported by the vehicle, they just haven't been completed. The ones that are steady green ( MIS, FUE, CCM, AND HTR) have completed their diagnostic testing. Also, the yellow led is on.

So I guess it's time to do a compression test.

The thing is: doesn't a compression tester use the spark-plug ports? How would I even hook that up, and then hook the coil pack back in? The coil pack blocks everything. Does this mean fenageling some stuff/ finding wires that can jump the coil-pack boot to spark plug?
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 03:25 PM   #18
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

@dawnshute
Sorry, I've taken over your thread!!
...
The painting is proof of the painter. The house is proof of the builder. Remind me again how creation is not proof of the creator? -- Maxim

Last edited by DivinDanielH; 04-26-2020 at 03:28 PM. Reason: quoting original poster
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 04:44 PM   #19
Dsaturn
Member
Dsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really niceDsaturn is just really nice
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: West Virginia.
Posts: 352
 

2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivinDanielH View Post
***2nd update on the stupid light - The SES light comes on and stays on-steady, and only flashes during the initial start-up***

I've gone out and tried the OBD II (Innova 3100 lat) tester again, but this time while the engine was running. This time it pulled a P0304 (cylinder 4 misfire).

I'll also note that the device under I/M MONITOR STATUS shows (3) red flashing dots: CAT, EVA, AND O2S. After reviewing the device [www dot innova dot com/Support/Download/3100i/CanOBD2-Diagnostic-Tool-ABS-Color-Screen"] manual online, pages 10-12. I see that these indicate standard 'monitors'. These red flashing ones mean the tests are supported by the vehicle, they just haven't been completed. The ones that are steady green ( MIS, FUE, CCM, AND HTR) have completed their diagnostic testing. Also, the yellow led is on.

So I guess it's time to do a compression test.

The thing is: doesn't a compression tester use the spark-plug ports? How would I even hook that up, and then hook the coil pack back in? The coil pack blocks everything. Does this mean fenageling some stuff/ finding wires that can jump the coil-pack boot to spark plug?
To do a compression check unplug and remove coil-pack and all 4 spark plugs, remove fuse for fuel pump, compression Tester screws in place of spark plug. Turn engine over for three turns using ignition switch, Check compression numbers on gauge. Repeat for all cylinders.
...
https://www.infowars.com/ The answer to 1984 is 1776. We are not a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. A Democracy is Two Wolfs and a sheep deciding what is for Lunch!
Dsaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2020, 07:41 PM   #20
DivinDanielH
New Member
DivinDanielH is on a distinguished road
 
DivinDanielH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 8

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: 2004 L300 running rough | DivinDanielH compression test update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsaturn View Post
To do a compression check unplug and remove coil-pack and all 4 spark plugs, remove fuse for fuel pump, compression Tester screws in place of spark plug. Turn engine over for three turns using ignition switch, Check compression numbers on gauge. Repeat for all cylinders.
Post 12: 03 LW 300; I agree with Fdryer as usual, next step is a compression check. If I had a misfire I would have checked compression before installing the new plugs. Now you have to backtrack a little bit. If the compression checks all good and near equal, replace the coil pack.[/QUOTE]

I just did my first ever compression test!

I took out the fuel pump fuse, removed the coil pack & plugs, cleaned out the cylinder head coil pack cavity from 90% of the gunk.

Compression test 1 done. The results are as follows.

Cylinder 1: 160
Cylinder 2: 170
Cylinder 3: 150
Cylinder 4: 180

Note: the engine wasn't particularly warm when I did the test. I had the wife crank it and I let it go over 4 times on each cylinder. Also, I put everything back together and started just to make sue I didn't break something! The problem still exists.

Cylinder 3 is 83% of Cylinder 4, which according to the Haynes manual is acceptable. "Lowest cylinder must be within 75% of highest cylinder." 75% of 180 would be 135. Somewhere I read (in here I think) that the compression should be around 180 if everything is good.

So, according to 03 LW 300, post 12 the coil pack should be changed out.

Reasoning: I got different readings on each cylinder but they are near equal according to the Haynes 75% figure, so the coil pack is causing the misfire on cylinder 4 and probably more.

Reasoning sound? Replace coil pack?
...
The painting is proof of the painter. The house is proof of the builder. Remind me again how creation is not proof of the creator? -- Maxim
DivinDanielH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rough Running rough start Joshtheclockman S-Series Tech 15 06-22-2017 05:34 AM
'98 SW2 rough idle - rough running Jer84 S-Series Tech 6 06-19-2017 09:09 PM
Help!! L300 running rough - mystery mike1161 L-Series Tech 3 05-04-2011 12:00 PM
2004 Vue 3.5L Running Rough westlotorn Vue General 11 11-24-2010 12:43 PM
2004 L300 V6 running 'rough' Statfreak101 L-Series Tech 2 03-26-2009 09:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.