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Old 05-13-2020, 05:51 PM   #41
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
My presumptions of free readings from A-z are that vehicles are driven to their parking lots so an A-z employee can come outside and plug in their reader. Renting (free) a reader falls inline with their policy of free tool loaners
when cash or credit card imprint is applied as insurance against a non returned or damaged tool.

There needs to be some clarification of vehicle brake systems. There are basically two separate brake systems integrated to allow seamless braking with or without abs/tc/esc. The first and primary brake system is the hydraulically operated brakes. With engine running, press brake pedal and power assisted braking amplifies foot pressure to apply braking from hydraulic pressure. Without power assist, braking takes more pedal effort to brake a vehicle. This is the basic brake system. The red brake light alerts drivers to two possible issues; parking brake applied and not released before driving or low brake fluid in the brake reservoir. Regardless of whether abs/tc/esc is available and operating or not, the basic brake system is a priority. If abs/tc/esc fails, this does not mean the basic brake system failed. The abs light will turn on to indicate an error to the abs/tc/esc system, not the brake system. Be very clear about the two. One system (abs) will not affect the other (main brake system) if it fails (turn on abs light).

Abs/tc/esc has always been an enhancement to the basic brake system. If for any reason abs/tc/esc fails, the abs light turns on while the red brake light remains off to indicate brakes still work but abs/tc/esc is lost and does not imperil drivers. Brakes work as they always did before abs was added and still work when abs fails. There's a reason for the two lights - separating the main brake system from the abs/tc/esc system. Do not be concerned about the abs light as this means something in the abs system occurred, triggered the abs error light, stores the error code in the abs unit (not ecm, pcm, bcm), and will output the error code when a reader capable of decoding abs error codes is plugged in. Remember, brakes are far more important than having abs/tc/esc. Basic brake systems always use hydraulic systems that are fool proof when serviced correctly because its basic hydraulics and pressures to operate slave cylinders (disc or drum brakes). Electronics governs how abs/tc/esc operates and if they fail, do not affect braking at all.

If you manage to make brake repairs to allow driving and braking safely, a visit to A-z and having them decode the abs error code(s) may be easier than contemplating the abs light and wondering how this affects regular braking. Abs failure does not affect hydraulics.

With some info given, bleeding brakes will not turn off the abs light. One has nothing to do with the other, period. The abs error may be as simple as breaking, damaging or disconnecting one abs connection, the one on the disc brake you're working on. Losing brake fluid does not turn on the abs light, period. A small two wire black harness connects each abs wheel speed sensor to the abs unit next to the brake master cylinder. Only one wire needs to be damaged, broken or disconnected to trigger the abs light to turn on and stay on. This means an error code is stored in the abs unit for a reader to decode to tell you where the problem lies. I'm guessing the error is on the disc brake you're working on. If I'm wrong then a OBDII/abs reader will point the way.

Please don't dwell on open source info. Abs readers are already offered online as dedicated readers. Why buy a separate abs reader when auto stores are offering free readings?
fdryer,

No I did not understand the difference between the two. Now I do! Things make a lot more sense now. Even if I cannot bleed my brakes and end up paying a local garage; at least I know there is a chance I could still have my basic braking to get it safely down the road.

And going to AutoZone for ABS decoding for free is probably a lot better than trying to acquire technology.

Thanks!
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:36 PM   #42
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
I immediately turned off the car this morning when the light came on. I then plugged in the OBDII and read codes and it resulted in a null value; zero results.
As fdryer has already pointed out, if your scanner does not specifically state that it can read ABS codes then it cannot. I happen to own an Innova 3030f OBDII / ABS scanner. When originally purchased the ABS part wasn't useful to me since I had no cars with it. Now I have two. Who knows, I may need it some day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
I will have to look at the factory service manual and see if I can look through any ABS codes if it contains any. If so; find the one that closely resembles what would trigger my compromising the ABS / caliber bolt removal whoops and then trouble shoot from there?

Perhaps the light goes off once the brakes are bled?
No, please don't do this. Code reading is not designed for us to decipher things in reverse. BrandonKastning, you're getting ahead of yourself again. Take care of the significant issue at hand which is to bleed the brake hydraulic system. Presume to know nothing at all about the warning lamp and what it may refer to until the basic mechanical operation of the brakes has been restored.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:03 PM   #43
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrot View Post
As fdryer has already pointed out, if your scanner does not specifically state that it can read ABS codes then it cannot. I happen to own an Innova 3030f OBDII / ABS scanner. When originally purchased the ABS part wasn't useful to me since I had no cars with it. Now I have two. Who knows, I may need it some day?

No, please don't do this. Code reading is not designed for us to decipher things in reverse. BrandonKastning, you're getting ahead of yourself again. Take care of the significant issue at hand which is to bleed the brake hydraulic system. Presume to know nothing at all about the warning lamp and what it may refer to until the basic mechanical operation of the brakes has been restored.
pierrot,

Great advise! Mechanical first! 100%
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:07 PM   #44
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 1 / 8

Second part will be bleeding when I get that finished I will update accordingly!
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:09 PM   #45
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 2 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6_cropped_20200526_172352.jpg (215.9 KB, 5 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:10 PM   #46
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 3 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 11_cropped_20200526_172842.jpg (209.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:11 PM   #47
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 4 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 16_cropped_20200526_173523.jpg (205.9 KB, 7 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:13 PM   #48
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 5 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 21_cropped_20200526_173628.jpg (215.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:14 PM   #49
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 6 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 26_cropped_20200526_174013.jpg (223.9 KB, 3 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:15 PM   #50
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 7 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 31_cropped_20200526_174857.jpg (209.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 32_cropped_20200526_174947.jpg (215.2 KB, 3 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:17 PM   #51
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Mechanical Part 1 /2 of this thread!

~ Rear Pad Swaps (Correctly this time!)

Part 8 / 8
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 36_cropped_20200526_175549.jpg (213.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 37_cropped_20200526_175618.jpg (213.4 KB, 5 views)
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:19 PM   #52
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

The rear left side is not pictured. I did the drivers side afterwards (I had to move the car all the way in toward the curb since I pulled the car out to get the hydraulic jack to fit for the job) -- Then I had more Constitutional Highway space to work on!

Thanks again everyone! Bleeding will be next on this thread!
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:47 AM   #53
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Judging from the photos of the brake pads I don't see why you decided to replace them as they had plenty of friction material on them. Were the driver side rear pads more severely worn than those on the passenger side? If I'd seen what you saw I would have left them alone. Nevertheless, since you've replaced them already...>

Did you collapse the rear caliper pistons back into their respective bores? I ask this because it surprised and somewhat alarmed me that you needed to use a soft mallet to set the brake pads in place.

A word of caution here: the rear disc brake hardware is not intended by the manufacturer to be reused. At a minimum, springs (front or rear) are never to be reused as they will have lost their required strength. I know that people have reused brake hardware parts in the past, but it's not the right choice as a matter of general safety and proper operation. Frankly, the rear caliper hardware is not very expensive.
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Last edited by pierrot; 05-31-2020 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:08 AM   #54
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Quote:
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Judging from the photos of the brake pads I don't see why you decided to replace them as they had plenty of friction material on them. Were the driver side rear pads more severely worn than those on the passenger side? If I'd seen what you saw I would have left them alone. Nevertheless, since you've replaced them already...>

Did you collapse the rear caliper pistons back into their respective bores? I ask this because it surprised and somewhat alarmed me that you needed to use a soft mallet to set the brake pads in place.

A word of caution here: the rear disc brake hardware is not intended by the manufacturer to be reused. At a minimum, springs (front or rear) are never to be reused as they will have lost their required strength. I know that people have reused brake hardware parts in the past, but it's not the right choice as a matter of general safety and proper operation. Frankly, the rear caliper hardware is not very expensive.
pierrot,

Funny you asked that! The drivers side rear brake pads would not fit after I removed the other ones. I ended up having to loosen the calipers to get it to fit (I ended up taking off a 1/8th of an inch trying to knock the pad in on the far left).

Good to know regarding the disc brakes. I will take my chances! Engine is far more important as is the air bubbles out with a proper bleeding!

Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:13 AM   #55
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

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The drivers side rear brake pads would not fit after I removed the other ones. I ended up having to loosen the calipers to get it to fit (I ended up taking off a 1/8th of an inch trying to knock the pad in on the far left).
An eighth of an inch of what? Are you referring to the friction material? Again, were the pistons returned as fully embedded/retracted within their bores?
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:37 AM   #56
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Sorry but I have to say this. Take your car to a shop for brakes. The way you just did the brake job could lead to a failure That could result in Hurting or killing yourself or others. I know you are trying to learn to do the work yourself but sometimes even experience people like me have to bite the bullet and take the vehicle to a shop.
Maybe you could sign up at a local School districts Vocational technical school to learn more about basic mechanics.
Have fun learning but please when it comes to safety on cars do not take short cuts.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:29 AM   #57
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

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An eighth of an inch of what? Are you referring to the friction material? Again, were the pistons returned as fully embedded/retracted within their bores?
pierrot,

Yes, I am referring to the friction material. The very bottom wouldn't go in. So when I was whacking it to get it to go in and it kept bouncing out. It took me a while to figure out I wasn't going to fit it.

So I loosened the calipers (the correct bolts this time) in order to get enough extra wiggle room to drive the pad in.

Regarding the "pistons"... I am guessing those are the metal "rods" that I drove out with a hammer + nail + mallet?

If so; yes they drove in quite nice. And when I put the metal spring back in; the tension was very good. They aren't moving; I tell ya that!
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

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Sorry but I have to say this. Take your car to a shop for brakes. The way you just did the brake job could lead to a failure That could result in Hurting or killing yourself or others. I know you are trying to learn to do the work yourself but sometimes even experience people like me have to bite the bullet and take the vehicle to a shop.
Maybe you could sign up at a local School districts Vocational technical school to learn more about basic mechanics.
Have fun learning but please when it comes to safety on cars do not take short cuts.
Dsaturn,

How could I hurt myself or others with a pad swap? This is completely different from getting air in my brakes (which I understand that as a safety issue) -- bleed the system fully with new fluid - CHECK! (On the list).

But the pad swaps? I don't see the need to slam me against the wall for this one.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:52 AM   #59
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

I agree you should replace the hardware. You should NOT have to grind the friction material to get the new pads to fit. You should retract the pistons. The pistons are the round things in the center of the caliper.
Also it appears you do not have the spring correctly installed. It should be under both pins.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:55 AM   #60
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Rear Brake Pad Swap (Special Tool Needed) ?

Post 48, photo 4 of 5 shows one of the pistons.
Post 51 shows the spring incorrectly installed
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