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Old 11-01-2013, 09:54 AM   #1
Texican1
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Wrench 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

So I'm sure you've seen our drizzles in Texas the last few days. My son pulled out into the street behind his gf in her Lumina that made it trough the water and he started sputtering and tried to get back to the driveway and stalled out. I've seen the pic, water is at about the hub on the driver steer tire which is the lowest point of the road, the rest of the car is shallower.

Somehow he got water in the airbox and then into the intake. He and his friends pulled the intake and throttle off to get the water out and then drained the oil. We put it back together and oiled and filtered it. It doesn't attempt to start. The starter yesterday would make a single click, but not even as much as a dead battery amount of noise. We let it dry over night and now it does nothing.

The battery is good, plus we tried jumping it. The starter fuse is intact. Any ideas on where to start looking for the gremlins?
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texican1 View Post
So I'm sure you've seen our drizzles in Texas the last few days. My son pulled out into the street behind his gf in her Lumina that made it trough the water and he started sputtering and tried to get back to the driveway and stalled out. I've seen the pic, water is at about the hub on the driver steer tire which is the lowest point of the road, the rest of the car is shallower.

Somehow he got water in the airbox and then into the intake. He and his friends pulled the intake and throttle off to get the water out and then drained the oil. We put it back together and oiled and filtered it. It doesn't attempt to start. The starter yesterday would make a single click, but not even as much as a dead battery amount of noise. We let it dry over night and now it does nothing.

The battery is good, plus we tried jumping it. The starter fuse is intact. Any ideas on where to start looking for the gremlins?
See attached thumbnail for engine start ... I don't see a start fuse - are you referring to the 30A Ign Fuse?

The 3.5 start relay is one of the small Bosch types and is attached to engine side of under-hood fuse and relay box (UHFRB).

If the battery is powering UHFRB (headlights and other accessories operate) - and start relay does not click with key to START - the transmission safety switch could be bad ... I'd try with gear shift to neutral.

If small relay does click but starter does not run - starter - or solenoid - or both could be water-logged.
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File Type: jpg 3.5 Engine Start Ckt.jpg (153.5 KB, 5 views)
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

pull the pl;ugs out and see if it will crank over.. hopefuly it didn't ingest water and shorten a connecting rod as water does not compress and water ingestion usualy involves a bent rod...good luck..
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Ok sorry for the delay, long day yesterday. Yes, it still clicks when the key is turned while in neutral. Taking the plugs out won't help when the starter doesn't spin. Got a errand to run then I'm going to pull the starter off and take it to autozone to get checked.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

As a side note, none of the relays are marked starter.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

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The 3.5 start relay is one of the small Bosch types and is attached to engine side of under-hood fuse and relay box (UHFRB).
I tried to emphasize the 3.5 engine start relay is not marked or in relay box.

It probably doesn't matter now - since you hear relay click when key is turned to start ... but see the thumbnail if you need to locate for later troubleshooting (relay view possible because I rotated air intake snorkel toward radiator).

You've probably done so but I'd pull all plugs before trying the new starter - one or more cylinders can have water and if cylinder's on compression stroke - oh boy.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

I'm at the point I'm ready to throw wrenches and my neighbors are looking for the cussing. How do you get the starter out? I can't get my hands in there. Battery is out, solenoid 1 nut off and unplugged. Can't reach anything else with all the hoses and wires in the way.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

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Originally Posted by Texican1 View Post
I'm at the point I'm ready to throw wrenches and my neighbors are looking for the cussing. How do you get the starter out? I can't get my hands in there. Battery is out, solenoid 1 nut off and unplugged. Can't reach anything else with all the hoses and wires in the way.
Not much room ... best I can offer is service manual extract. See post 13 of this thread for starter replace (rules prevent adding again):

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=151013

I am able to add a thumbnail with starter removal steps (see below).
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Ok, plugs are out. Since it won't crank, how do I tell if there is water in the cylinders?
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Thanks for the link, but the problem is getting to it. All the radiator hoses and wiring harnesses are in the way. Can't get a wrench or socket into it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

And interestingly enough, the Haynes manual shows the mounting bolts going parallel, not perpendicular
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

So it seems the 2 bolts I took out aren't the right ones, and now one has dropped into the motor and I can't find it.

Just because I'm not certain based on the description from the Haynes manual, the starter is smaller than a 12 oz coke can and to the left and down from the battery, right? Solenoid sitting right on top of it? The manual says there's a rubber boot on the end with a bolt under it which isn't the case.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

You'll need a working starter to spin engine to expel water from cylinders.

I'd use cord or rope to re-position radiator hoses to improve access.

I'd also remove EGR valve to improve access to starter.

I'd also remove the small bracket with engine harness and battery positive cable to improve access.

The starter is to left and below the battery and centered and behind transmission fluid dipstick and my starter is larger than 12 oz coke can and solenoid is mounted on top of starter.

Starter has two bolts (per diagram) which are perpendicular to starter frame.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Ok then I'm in the right place. 6 hours later I gave up for the night. My neighbor reconnected the battery and crossed the posts on the starter and it didn't react. We took that harness loose in the front but that's when the Mosquitos decided it was dinner time. Back at it tomorrow.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

If you're still working on this, the next thing to do is put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt and turn the engine over by hand. If it's hydro locked then it's probably will not turn and not a starter issue since even a good one won't compress water. An engine ingesting water into the cylinders will need repairs beyond the scope of most DIY-ers. Best of luck.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
I tried to emphasize the 3.5 engine start relay is not marked or in relay box.

It probably doesn't matter now - since you hear relay click when key is turned to start ... but see the thumbnail if you need to locate for later troubleshooting (relay view possible because I rotated air intake snorkel toward radiator).

You've probably done so but I'd pull all plugs before trying the new starter - one or more cylinders can have water and if cylinder's on compression stroke - oh boy.
thanks for the relay location I have not heard the relay click with the key on when this happened,i will check tomorrow and get back to you,thanks.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: 07 V6 got wet, won't attempt to start

i got an 04 v6 last spring with a bad starter. remove battery and tray. pretty simple. than you reach down and get access to starter. seller said starter was flaky and i drove it for several days and had no issues. replaced starter and it seemed to crank the same. so i figure it was a solenoid issue?
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