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Old 04-21-2021, 03:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Offhand, I do not know. There are at least two ways to determine wrench size. Trial and error with several open end wrenches until finding one that fits (presuming metric) or use an adjustable wrench. If you want precision over an adjustable wrench then use it as a crude yet perfect caliper to measure the flats. Adjust until its snug, remove it without upsetting the gap then place open end wrenches (one at a time) side by side to this 'caliper'. If correctly matched, the wrench should fit snugly onto flats for use.
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:04 PM   #22
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

fdryer,

Thank you! I will go start tearing it down for trial and error on my current set of wrenches. I know once I match it (provided I have the correct size in my set); I will need to purchase 3 additional for the whole timing belt job on this thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Offhand, I do not know. There are at least two ways to determine wrench size. Trial and error with several open end wrenches until finding one that fits (presuming metric) or use an adjustable wrench. If you want precision over an adjustable wrench then use it as a crude yet perfect caliper to measure the flats. Adjust until its snug, remove it without upsetting the gap then place open end wrenches (one at a time) side by side to this 'caliper'. If correctly matched, the wrench should fit snugly onto flats for use.
...
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Don't reopen the cam covers... that is way too much work and totally unnecessary. If you are so worried about the cam sprockets spinning to rest, just use a few tie wraps between BANK 1 and a few more on BANK 2 sprockets or even one of those large clamps you purchased. If you do this, you can say goodbye to changing your cam seals. I suggest you allow the cams to spin to rest and install the new belt to properly time the engine.

What you are working to do is migrate any error in timing to the new timing belt after it is installed. Best to start fresh using the CRANK TDC as the anchor and work from that point, not work off of the potentially out of time cam bank timing.

Stop thinking the timing marks on the cams are correct where ever they are. The plastic marks and the crank shaft are correct. The cams marks are wrong unless they are perfectly aligned with the plastic marks on the engine at TDC. Stop working off the cams markings! They are not the anchor, the crank is always correct unless it is 180 degrees out of phase. I could be wrong with this last sentence because I am assuming 4 strokes require two full revolutions of the crank to complete. So just like a clock, it strikes 6 pm twice in one day. And the engine hits TDC twice for 4 strokes. TDC means the #1 cylinder piston is fully extended on either the compression or exhaust stroke. Correct?
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:17 PM   #24
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Rj 2000 LS2,

No worries. All is well! Tear down complete and ready to continue once I get these wrenches. I don't have the correct size. I will read what you are saying regarding the cams. You have written a lot that I need to re-read and it works perfect while I am waiting for wrenches.

Thanks again!



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Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Don't reopen the cam covers... that is way too much work and totally unnecessary. If you are so worried about the cam sprockets spinning to rest, just use a few tie wraps between BANK 1 and a few more on BANK 2 sprockets or even one of those large clamps you purchased. If you do this, you can say goodbye to changing your cam seals. I suggest you allow the cams to spin to rest and install the new belt to properly time the engine.

What you are working to do is migrate any error in timing to the new timing belt after it is installed. Best to start fresh using the CRANK TDC as the anchor and work from that point, not work off of the potentially out of time cam bank timing.

Stop thinking the timing marks on the cams are correct where ever they are. The plastic marks and the crank shaft are correct. The cams marks are wrong unless they are perfectly aligned with the plastic marks on the engine at TDC. Stop working off the cams markings! They are not the anchor, the crank is always correct unless it is 180 degrees out of phase. I could be wrong with this last sentence because I am assuming 4 strokes require two full revolutions of the crank to complete. So just like a clock, it strikes 6 pm twice in one day. And the engine hits TDC twice for 4 strokes. TDC means the #1 cylinder piston is fully extended on either the compression or exhaust stroke. Correct?
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Best guess on wrench size is 15/16 or 24mm. virtually the same
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:22 PM   #26
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

lrbraner,

I believe you are 100% correct sir! I just looked up the in-between size on a wrench chart and got the same answer!

Thank you!



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Best guess on wrench size is 15/16 or 24mm. virtually the same
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Seriously, don't use the cam lock timing location as the anchor, you will copy any error of the previous configuration forward. Only use the Crank Shaft TDC for the correct timing! It is your anchor. I am afraid you are in the belief that if a cam Bank lock inserts... this is the proper timing to follow. This is incorrect! Stop thinking the cam sprockets are the anchor for timing! Tearing the engine down to take off the cam covers was a huge waste of time and energy. It will not help you time anything!
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:49 PM   #28
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Rj 2000 LS2,

I explain my understanding of what you are trying to convey; what I have absorbed and experienced so far on the other thread. Check it out! You may understand my thinking with what I learned from fdryer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Seriously, don't use the cam lock timing location as the anchor, you will copy any error of the previous configuration forward. Only use the Crank Shaft TDC for the correct timing! It is your anchor. I am afraid you are in the belief that if a cam Bank lock inserts... this is the proper timing to follow. This is incorrect! Stop thinking the cam sprockets are the anchor for timing! Tearing the engine down to take off the cam covers was a huge waste of time and energy. It will not help you time anything!
...
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Old 06-26-2021, 01:51 AM   #29
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Question Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

Hey everyone,

Winding down for sleep tonight; thinking about my new timing belt installation and feel it's absolutely peril if I continue without dialing 100% with corrections using wrenches on the cast flats.

I feel I need to remove the belt again; find sockets that fit to "replace" my keys.

So that the alignment tool + markings are 100% regardless of the keys not fitting.

My understanding is that finding long sockets to fit the holes will suffice. Is this 100% accurate regardless of previous conversations?

Do the bolts have to be secured to a piece of wood or can one just attach a socket ratchet to it and pull it out?

Are both sockets needed (for top and bottom) per each BANK?

Thanks in advance! Too much work to get the belt 100% on and then have to remove it to end up doing this anyways.

I will pull the GREEN key and try different sockets if my #7 isn't too large I should have a couple. I may have to order duplicates of the same once I find one that fits.

I wonder if it's the same socket size for both top and bottom of each bank; or if it's 1 size for top of BANK1 and 1 size for bottom BANK1 + duplicate for BANK2 (2 + 2) or (1+1) + (1+1)

Then I could use the wrenches and the alignment tool; move them 100% like I had right before I put the belt on and the keys do not fit. Instead of intentionally moving it so the keys fit and losing 100% time.

This should be the remedy since the breaker bar screwed everything up earlier.
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Old 06-26-2021, 02:43 PM   #30
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Question Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

My lowest socket #7 didn't fit in the hole. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-27-2021, 11:57 AM   #31
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Question Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

fdryer,

Do you think this might work as a solution for a DIY cam lock for our L81? Using 2 x Camshaft Bolts and then twisting a twist tie on the bottom and top together?

It seems to fit, I checked. I took pics below.

You mentioned earlier you built one to do your timing belt. I was wondering if you could take a peek and provide any advice that could help me achieve this feat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_20210627_083425.jpg (76.0 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20210627_083435.jpg (87.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 3_20210627_083441.jpg (81.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 4_20210627_083451.jpg (83.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 5_20210627_083501.jpg (56.4 KB, 3 views)
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Old 06-27-2021, 09:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

No, the cam locks in the tool kit are correct. You're inventing something that isn't needed and creating a distraction agains following service manual procedures.

I gave you my reply in the other thread, reviewing procedures. The cam locks are not used as timing alignment. They're only purpose is to prevent camshafts from rotating when locking camshafts when removing and replacing the timing belt. The camshaft locking tools are not used for final timing belt alignment. When the new timing belt and idler pulleys are put on, the belt prevents camshafts from rotating. Final timing adjustment is with the camshaft alignment tool with those tow marks; adjusting idler pulleys to bring camshaft timing marks in alignment with the cam shaft timing tool, not the camshaft locks.

The camshaft locks are not used for precision timing belt alignment.
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Old 06-27-2021, 10:51 PM   #33
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

fdryer,

10-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
No, the cam locks in the tool kit are correct. You're inventing something that isn't needed and creating a distraction agains following service manual procedures.

I gave you my reply in the other thread, reviewing procedures. The cam locks are not used as timing alignment. They're only purpose is to prevent camshafts from rotating when locking camshafts when removing and replacing the timing belt. The camshaft locking tools are not used for final timing belt alignment. When the new timing belt and idler pulleys are put on, the belt prevents camshafts from rotating. Final timing adjustment is with the camshaft alignment tool with those tow marks; adjusting idler pulleys to bring camshaft timing marks in alignment with the cam shaft timing tool, not the camshaft locks.

The camshaft locks are not used for precision timing belt alignment.
...
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Old 06-28-2021, 08:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

My tablet likes to misspell.

Quote:
... distraction agains following service manual procedures
should read 'against'.

Quote:
.... with those tow marks
should read 'two'.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:16 PM   #35
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Thumbs Up Re: Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter (L81) - Spanner Tool (For Timing Belt) How to build?

fdryer,

Thanks man! Mine is defective. I am purchasing a new one. The two bars don't move against the metal line on the Tensioner.

I found a descent deal on a replacement. Not too bad a loss.

FSM from here on out. Much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
My tablet likes to misspell.

should read 'against'.

should read 'two'.
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