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Old 06-18-2022, 05:16 AM   #81
lanxer57
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Tonight, I controlled the transmission with switches at speeds up to 65 MPH. The transmission seems to be shifting directly from 2nd to 4th gear at 40 MPH. When I command 3rd gear, the engine seems almost completely disconnected from the drivetrain, and I hear a high pitched squeal that I suspect is the clutch slipping. This squeal sounds a bit like a rope/cable rubbing against something quickly. I recorded a video of doing these tests, the camera does not seem to have picked up the squealing noise, but maybe it can be heard on louder speakers than mine. https://youtu.be/9TbsZ8VqIFI
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Old 06-18-2022, 01:51 PM   #82
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I only listened/watched the video for the first minute or so, up to the first shift to 3rd; but could not hear anything useful. If there is a better spot further along in the video to observe the 3rd problem, please advise.

Using those switches for manual control is a useful tool, but not definitive. It may even be giving us false clues. I assume you are doing nothing to modulate LP in the normal fashion, correct? And no application of the TCC now? Is the manual shift lever always in the normal "D" position?

At the very least, you should probably put an ammeter in series with each of the three main solenoid circuits, to get some confidence that they are actually being powered and not just having "voltage applied". Even then, if the proper current seems to be in a particular solenoid coil, there is still no assurance the solenoid valve is operating properly mechanically/hydraulically. Going deeper, even if a solenoid valve is being controlled correctly and is operating correctly, then there is no assurance the VB is passing the fluid pressure on to a clutch OK. There are a passages, gaskets, spools, check-balls, and such in the VB that could be disrupting things.

So, you could check at the beginning of this circus (the solenoid current) and check at the end (clutch air-checks), but little in between. This is the point where I had to give up and throw a VB at it, which solved the problem; and most often is the solution to TAAT problems.

Have you checked the ISN? If the ISN, air-checks, LP fuse-pull, and solenoid currents all seem OK I think it is time for a VB change.

We still have the wonderment as to why the trans will "stall" the engine in 3rd when the car isn't moving but slips badly when the car is moving. I can only guess that it is not really in 3rd during one of those scenarios. Somehow, fluid pressure is routed different when the trans innards are in motion. Besides things mentioned above, there are those long tubes in the in/out shafts that have to "seal" via bushings deep in the shafts.

How badly do you want to keep this an auto trans? A manual and clutch could be put in for about the same cost as a good VB ($250-300) if you can scrounge all the pieces from a low-cost JY.
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Old 06-18-2022, 06:48 PM   #83
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I always check to see if the switches are working when manually controlling the transmission before I close the hood by listening for clicking noises coming from the solenoids when each of the switches are closed, and all other gears seem to be working other than 3rd, so the solenoids are responding to the switches. It is also in "D" while the vehicle is moving, it would otherwise not move. I did switch on the TCC later in the video, but not in the part that you watched. I did not touch LP. There is not a better spot to observe 3rd gear, other times there was more road/wind noise. I changed the VB with a known good one when I tightened the ISN. It has to remain an automatic (for now at least), but I do have the same transmission that I took the VB out of, it was pulled out of my 2001 SC1 along with the engine after I crashed it (it still ran and drive after the accident, but the frame was bent) If the transmission needs to come apart anyway (lets not forget the fluid that seems to be seeping from the bell housing), than I believe it would be faster to simply replace the 1999 trans with the 2001 trans, as long as there are no differences in automatic transmissions between those years.
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Old 06-18-2022, 08:49 PM   #84
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Well, besides "D", aren't there also a "3" and "2" positions for the gear lever? The car would certainly move in those, as well as "D", but the (manual) spool valve in the VB would be in a different position. I wanted to be sure you were only manipulating the switches.

Which reminds me: it wouldn't hurt to disconnect the shift cable, at the trans, and manually put the trans shift arm in the detented "D" position. It is possible (not likely) that the shift cable is not putting the spool valve in the proper position.

I don't agree that listening for the solenoid click is "good enough". Are you doing that while the engine is running? Can you hear the clicks as you are driving along? Can you tell exactly which solenoid(s) are clicking from sound alone???

I also don't agree that you now have a "known-good" VB on there. Just the process of changing the VB could have caused a problem. Alas, with the debate about which Sonnax upgrade is essential for this VB, and its sensitivity to system voltage, I am not convinced there even is anything such as a "known-good" TAAT VB

I still urge you to do air-checks. Since you have a spare trans on-hand, you can practice on it, and have it to compare to what you find with the one in the car.
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Old 06-20-2022, 12:38 AM   #85
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I did the air checks! I recorded a video of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uTQ6pbevTc, but I believe that this image tells more. The 3 holes marked with black bolts (4th, 1st, and 2nd pressure apply ports) all had a "thud", or "click" that could be heard when air was applied on both the car, and the 2001 transmission. The hole marked with an ECTS (3rd clutch apply) had a "thud" on the 2001 transmission, but only a "hiss" on the car, no matter how long or hard I held the trigger on the air nozzle. There is also a useful image on reply #5 of this thread
I believe that this is could be a clue, does this mean that a rebuild or swap may be needed?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ECTS marks the spot.jpg (89.7 KB, 4 views)
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Old 06-20-2022, 12:46 AM   #86
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

The useful image is in reply #5 of this thread http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234640
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Old 06-20-2022, 09:59 AM   #87
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Again, I did not view the video; not enough time this morning (no sound on this computer). However, what you describe is pretty conclusive... the 3rd gear clutch is sick. Yeah, time for a rebuild or swap. Parts for a rebuild can be a problem, but you could look here:

https://www.wittrans.com/parts?&type=TAAT&notPictured=1

Honestly, I think swapping your other trans in, or going to a manual, are the only reasonable choices. You asked before if the other trans would work (different year), and I think the answer is "yes" if they both are for a SOHC engine.
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Old 06-24-2022, 11:53 PM   #88
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I swapped the 1999 transmission with the 2001 transmission, put the car back together, turned the key, CLICK. The starter solenoid seems to be working, but the starter motor is not strong enough to crank the engine. jump starting the car did not work either. Is it possible that I seized the engine when installing the transmission? The neutral safety switch is working, otherwise the starter solenoid would not activate.
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:04 AM   #89
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I also hear a "hum" from the motor trying to turn if I hold the key down.
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Old 06-25-2022, 01:08 AM   #90
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Try turning the motor over by hand using a wrench on the crank pulley bolt.
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Old 06-25-2022, 07:22 PM   #91
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I put the handle from the floor jack onto the breaker bar, put most of my weight on it and it tightened the bolt that holds that crank pulley on, but the crankshaft did not turn. Removing the serpentine belt made no difference. How could I have seized the engine by swapping the transmission? The car rolls in neutral just fine.
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Old 06-25-2022, 07:34 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

The input shaft slid right off/on the torque converter, without the torque converter needing to come off, I got all of the bolt holes to line up, and tightened them to specifications. Could the shaft somehow be misaligned within the torque converter, jamming the engine?
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Old 06-25-2022, 08:56 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

the torque converter appears to have 2 sets of splines inside it. The first engages with the input shaft, and the second, for reasons that I do not understand engages with what looks like a shaft, but is actually fixed to the transmission housing, and does not turn, locking the torque converter, and by extension, the engine in place. I think that I need to somehow move the torque converter slightly outward.
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Old 06-25-2022, 09:10 PM   #94
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Were you able to slide the trans bell-housing all the way tight against the engine using only your hands to push? If you had to pry at all, or use the trans-to-engine screws to pull the trans up to the engine; then the convertor is probably not all the way into the trans pump.
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Old 06-26-2022, 04:59 AM   #95
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I loosened the bottom 2 bolts (and bracket), and was than able to turn the engine by hand. turning the engine by hand allowed the torque converter to seat correctly, and after tightening everything again, the engine started (only in neutral). P, R, N, and D seem to work well enough to pull the car out of the garage, and onto the street, but I did not drive it any further, because the power steering fluid leaked out when I replaced the rack, the power steering fluid dad said we had was nowhere to be found, and all of the auto parts stores are closed at 11:00 PM, and I did not want to damage the steering pump by running it with no fluid.
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:18 AM   #96
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

The PS works fine on DEX3. I don't know if "PS fluid" is as good as DEX3, so I would not routinely use PS in a trans.
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Old 06-27-2022, 05:38 AM   #97
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

The power steering fluid was for the power steering reservoir, which was empty, I did not want to damage the pump. The transmission seems to be working well at all speeds up to 65 MPH, but it is making a quiet noise resembling the tool a dentist uses to clean teeth when RPM exceeds 2000. I suspect that this could be the result of a broken exhaust flange bolt.
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Old 06-27-2022, 04:39 PM   #98
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Maybe I wasn't clear... DEX3 ATF is a hydraulic fluid plenty good enough to use in the PS system.
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Old 06-28-2022, 02:26 AM   #99
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I will keep that in mind the next time I need to fill a power steering reservoir.
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Old 06-28-2022, 06:01 AM   #100
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The Dingo Soil Cultivator attachment is used to prepare the land and lay a solid foundation. The rotating drum is fitted with carbide-tipped teeth that tear through clumps and burrow into the earth.To smooth a surface and grade it, secure the drum for a box blade effect. To prepare the soil while following the terrain’s contours, place the drum in the float position. The soil conditioner is a valuable, cost-effective attachment that every landscaping crew should have.
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