Trying to figure out if aftermarket motor mounts still suck in 2021

[El_bell]

TLDR; I needed a new motor mount but aftermarket supposedly isn’t the best quality. With OEM mounts being pretty much extinct, I decided to do some testing for myself to see what options are for the S-Series going forward will be like. OEM and aftermarket idle smoothness where honestly pretty similar so I went with a frowny style Westar mount that was filled with polyurethane for long term use. The polyurethane may or may not help the mount last a little longer. I also have to wait for colder weather to see how aftermarket rubber feels against OEM rubber. It’s supposedly gets pretty stiff below freezing but feels fine in warmer weather. I’m hoping it lasts a good while, but I’m not exactly short on motor mounts anymore if I do happen to need a new one sometime soon, haha.

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I have been doing some (unscientific) testing with various different motor mounts the past few weeks to try and figure out what the best option may be going into the 20’s. The first time I needed a new mount back in 2018, pretty much everything I read on the forums said to just get a OEM mount cause aftermarket was junk. OEM was almost extinct back then, but I did manage to find a new old stock OEM Mount off eBay with the help of the other members here. Those are unfortunately long gone now and no others have popped up since. I did happen to buy two back when they were around to have a backup, but I didn’t expect this one to wear out quite so fast. The easy thing to do would be just use that one and go on with my Saturn, but I don’t really want to use it yet if I don’t have to. If it’s one of the last few other I might as well save it for something special, whatever that may be haha.

For my testing, I’m switching between 4 different top motor mounts;

1. My current OEM mount from 2018
2. A used mount from the junkyard that is surprisingly in better condition than mine. As far as I can tell, its also an OEM Saturn mount. It doesn’t have a part number but neither does my unused OEM mount. All the other markings match so I’m guessing some of them just didn’t have a part number molded into the rubber.
3. A frowny Westar mount from Rockauto. This was the first mount I ordered online. I was expecting a solid type mount but this is what I ended up with. It wasn’t really worth returning and some Facebook group members suggested filling the hole with polyurethane/window sealer.
4. A frowny Anchor mount. This one I was a little disappointed when it arrived. I wanted to get another Westar to compare a not Polly filled mount with a Polly filled one. I ordered another mount from the same RockAuto listing but it really is random what you get. It came in a Westar branded box, but had a couple alternative part numbers listed on the outside. One of them was the Anchor part number so there really wasn’t anything I could do about it. Like the westar mount, It also wasn’t worth returning so I just settled on using it for my testing.
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I also have the new OE mount, as well as my old OE frowny mount that was replaced in 2018. I knew I wouldn’t be using either one of them so they were not tested on the car. The transmission mount and 2 dogbone mounts are all OE with about year worth of driving on each of them. The polyurethane dogbone mounts where not installed until after a new mount was chosen.
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There was 3 main things I was looking for with each of the mounts. How stiff the rubber feels in the bench vise, how smooth is the car idling at operating temperature, and how 4-3/ 3-2 downshifting feels

For the bench vise test, I clamped each mount into place by the part that gets bolted to the timing cover. I then grab the mount from the bottom where it gets bolted onto the frame rail and see how much it could be rocked forward/backward and side to side. The 3 OEM mounts where all pretty predictable. My current mount has sagged to the point where it no longer makes contact with the top of the metal frame, so it rocks forwards/backwards pretty easily. The junkyard mount does still contact the frame so it was a little stiffer, but not by much. The new mount fills in pretty much the whole frame so movement is minimal in every direction. The rubber is still soft enough though to not be impossible to slightly wiggle around. Just or fun, I used an analog caliper to measure the gap in the rubber to top of the frame on each mount. My current mount has a 0.180 inches gap, the junkyard mount is 0.069 inches wide, and the new mount had no measurable gap.
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The Westar mount and Anchor mount where actually complete opposites of each other. The Westar mount was about as easy to move around in the vice as the junkyard mount. The Anchor mount however was so stiff I couldn’t wiggle around it at all. The Anchor mount is probably using a stiffer rubber, but could also be the fact the rubber itself is slight wider. The Westar rubber doesn’t even really squish against the sides of the metal frame at all. It is the only mount I’m able to fit a popsicle stick through either side of. Even with the Westar mount full of Polly it’s still easier to wiggle around than the Anchor mount, or the new OE mount.
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The 3 frowny mounts I have a are all built slightly different from each other. The OE and Westar mount both have a similar looking frame with the Anchor frame looking more like folded metal based on lower corners. The Anchor mount also has 2 dots for eyes on the rubber, like the OE mount. I decided to solve that small difference by adding some to the Westar Mount (no performance gains are expected with the google eye upgrade)
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For road testing I started with the Junkyard mount, then the Westar, then the Anchor last. Every mount was noticeably better the what I was previously using, but I was surprised to find they all felt almost exactly the same to each other. No noticeable difference was felt between the used OEM mount from the junkyard and the 2 frowny mounts. If I had to rank them, I would probably go junkyard OEM, Polly filled westar, and frowny Anchor. The Anchor mount rode fine despite having the stiffest rubber in the vise test. The mount was way harder to install than the others for some reason. I had to dremel out the holes for the frame rail bolts a little to make it fit. Another common complaint I’ve read about aftermarket mounts is they don’t last very long and they get really stiff in cold weather. I can’t exactly test either of those things right now so that may be where the different in quality comes into play. I decided to run the Polly filled Westar mount for the foreseeable future. It feels just as smooth as the OEM junkyard mount in every way which I’m actually really glad about. Nice to find out for myself that aftermarket mounts can be as smooth as factory. (At least when new anyway) It will be interesting to see how it performs in the colder weather. I’m also curious how well the polyurethane and will hold up over time. I filled the entire hole at once the first time I tried making a polly mount which definitely wasn’t a good idea. The center was not at all dry and got squished out the first time weight was put on it. After filling it in layers over the course of several days, it all dried much better. It is however already starting to squish out a little bit after a few days. I’m hoping it doesn’t eventually all squeeze its way out, but I can probably just fill it again if it does.
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I decided to try some polyurethane dogbone mounts after settling on the new top mount. I’ve had them a couple years now but I was never able to used them due to not having a big enough bench vise to squeeze the bushings into place. They do definitely stiffen up the powertrain cause I don’t notice the engine rocking even a little bit while being revved with these installed. I also feel like they make the throttle a little more responsive, but that could also just be placebo. What’s not placebo is how rough they make the car at idle. It’s not unbearable, but it does make stop and go traffic or drive thrus a little annoying. Once driving I couldn’t notice a huge difference from OEM. I swapped back to the OEM dogbones after a week and it was so nice having a smooth idle again haha. I was thinking of trying out a hybrid dogbone where the oval part of the mount stayed the OE rubber, but the smaller circle part of the mount be swapped to polyurethane. No idea if there would really be any benefit to doing that, just an idea I had after I noticed how much more worn out the engine dogbone mount felt compared to the transmission one after bing installed the same amount of time.

Anyway, I’m guessing no one else is as interested in these motor mounts as I am, but I figured it I was gonna be going through all this work trying each one out, I might as well share my findings with the community

[toggenburg]

Nice, thoughtful testing.
Please, let us know how the winter affects your trials.

[dummo]

Nice research!!

I am guessing that the age of the rubber in the mount has a big impact. My SW2 still vibrates in Drive at stoplights having an OEM mount purchased maybe 5-6 years ago in replacement of an aftermarket replacement installed about 8-9 years ago. The improvement was noticeable at the time of install.

Q: Do aftermarket Mounts have a date of manufacture stamp on them somewhere?

[El_bell]

Originally Posted by dummo

Q: Do aftermarket Mounts have a date of manufacture stamp on them somewhere?

Depends on who made the mount. The Westar mount has March 2020 stamped on the top but the Anchor mount has no date anywhere

[PrestonIII]

I read once somewhere that the "dealers" started buying aftermarket mounts and selling them as factory replacments when the original OEM supply ran out. Thus, your dealer purchased mounts may not actually be OEM type or quality.

Preston

[El_bell]

Originally Posted by PrestonIII

I read once somewhere that the "dealers" started buying aftermarket mounts and selling them as factory replacments when the original OEM supply ran out. Thus, your dealer purchased mounts may not actually be OEM type or quality.

Preston

I hadn’t considered this. May explain why 2 of them don’t have the factory part number. They are all exactly the same otherwise FWIW.

[dummo]

I have to think that you are getting really good at changing these upper mounts out quickly and adroitly. Have you developed any procedures or tips worth sharing?...

[El_bell]

Originally Posted by dummo

I have to think that you are getting really good at changing these upper mounts out quickly and adroitly. Have you developed any procedures or tips worth sharing?...

I can do one in under 10 minutes if that’s considered quick, lol. I don’t think I’ve discovered anything to groundbreaking that hasn’t been posted before.

[dummo]

^^^^I see you are in New England. How far from Boston? Maybe you'll consider coming to and entering the Extinct Car Lawn Show at the Larz Anderson Museum in late October ?

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[TomM96]

I'd be interested in what you suggest might be the better item(s)
to buy from the current market.

Clean looking engine compartment for '97 in NE !

[PrestonIII]

My car recently started to vibrate pretty badly at idle. So I started a search for a new upper motor mount.

I found a DEA brand mount that is an FIRST VERSION mount and it is a current product. The part number is A2827HD. The operative letters here are the "HD" at the end.

There is a second version "smiley" mount available from DEA under part number A2827 WITHOUT the "HD"

So, you want to buy the A2827HD version.

I just purchased one on eBay for just under $28. I'll install it as soon as it arrives and report back on the difference in vibrration.

Using a floor jack under the oil pan and an impact wrench, i can change this mount in under 3 minutes! If it takes me longer than that, I screwed up.

Preston

[dummo]

I recently noticed that DEA recommends changing out the entire set of all four motor mounts (in the RockAuto.com information text) and sells them as a set. This makes sense as it avoids stressing the weakest link(s) in the chain and will be how I approach my next installation.
Note: the parts sold separately are cheaper than the set on Rock Auto.

[PrestonIII]

Ok, so it took me 5 minutes to change. lol. I forgot that the lower air dam would interfere with getting the jack under the car.

Anyway, I installed the new mount today, and I must say that it seriously toned down the vibration I was having from the original one.

Once the original came out, I could see that it was almost completely split apart between the the two parts, under the part that bolts to the head.

The car is almost smooth running, but it still vibrates, and the frequency seems to be higher and with less servirity.

So, for a $25 mount, I give it a thumbs up! Just remember the part number! A2827HD by DEA. It's not a "smiley" or "frowney" mount. It's one of the solid ones.

Also, it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the ebay posting, but on the mount were those famous words "Made in China". Mine also showed up missing one of the three studs that it is supposed to have included. In my case I didn't need those studs, since my car had the same mount originally.

Preston

[Waiex191]

Check out this aftermarket mount-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-S-Se...-127632-2357-0

[El_bell]

Originally Posted by Waiex191

Check out this aftermarket mount-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-S-Se...-127632-2357-0

I have wanted to try one of those for a while now. They are a little pricey though and I know its just gonna make the car way more rough than any aftermarket mount would be. Certainly the best option for a track focused S-Series build.

[cujoe_da_man]

Originally Posted by El_bell

I have wanted to try one of those for a while now. They are a little pricey though and I know its just gonna make the car way more rough than any aftermarket mount would be. Certainly the best option for a track focused S-Series build.

I've been curious, what the hell makes these cars vibrate so much? I replaced all four engine mounts in mine and I can place my hand on the engine and not feel a single vibration (aside from just the engine running), but the whole car vibrates like the engine is bolted directly to the frame when sitting inside until the engine warms up and it idles down to about 600 RPM. Even when driving it just feels like the engine wants to rattle itself out of the engine bay.

I get it's a cheap car, but I have driven/owned much cheaper cars that didn't have this issue.

[bumpdraft]

Originally Posted by cujoe_da_man

I've been curious, what the hell makes these cars vibrate so much? I replaced all four engine mounts in mine and I can place my hand on the engine and not feel a single vibration (aside from just the engine running), but the whole car vibrates like the engine is bolted directly to the frame when sitting inside until the engine warms up and it idles down to about 600 RPM. Even when driving it just feels like the engine wants to rattle itself out of the engine bay.

I get it's a cheap car, but I have driven/owned much cheaper cars that didn't have this issue.

1) It’s a lightweight engine without a balancer shaft.
2) The aftermarket mounts are made for summertime in Florida.
3) The entire Springhill NVH design team rode 500cc 2-cycle dirt bikes on the weekends.

[El_bell]

I personally kind of like that the Saturn 1.9L runs a little rough. It just makes it feel more like an old econobox that wasn’t meant to be nice, just simple transportation. Even 20+ years later it’s still doing it pretty much just as well as it did back when it was new, assuming maintenance has been kept up. Not having a balance shaft in a 4 cylinder by the late 90’s was starting to become less common, but that’s what happens when you use pretty much the same engine for almost 12 years.

As nice as the S-Series is, it was still ultimately a product of late 80’s/90’s GM quality, which can only be so good in an economy car meant to be affordable.

[cujoe_da_man]

See, now you got me curious because I can barely sense any vibration in the engine itself, even with it cold and just starting to run, but I can feel A LOT of vibration coming off the exhaust pipe. I know someone at some point in the life of the car did a **** job of re-welding things together (seriously, you can still see the wires stuck to the welds from the Tig welder), I wonder if I'm missing something under there or maybe they didn't do something right.

[dummo]

I just completed a full (4 piece) engine mount changeover in my driveway and the results are inconclusive. I took before and after video of a plastic water glass half full vibrating on the dash, on top of the battery and on top of the valve cover next to the mount with car idling and there was no discernible difference noticed.

The car feels somewhat smoother and not seeing objects shaking in my mirrors but there is no night and day type difference that I was hoping for.

Parts Installed: RockAuto.com all DEA brand mounts:
1) Frowny Mount
1) Transmission mount
2) Dog Bone mounts

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What Did I Learn:
1) changing all four mounts at once might be good in theory but not as necessary since these mounts have such different responsibilities.

2) My OEM upper mount compressed down over the years (6 or so years) and was due to be replaced anyway.

3) The most stressed mounts are as listed (1) upper mount (2) passenger side dog bone (3) lower transmission mount (4) driver's side dog bone. Based upon visible wear and tear and my experience in changing them.

4) I am getting good at swapping out the upper mount and think I am going to do this operation on a yearly interval.

5) I will now purchase a non-frowny upper mount and swap it out to see if there will be a noticeable difference.

6) Generally: Upper Frowny mounts go for $10.00 and Upper Solid mounts go for $25.00

7) Torque Specifications: 19 ft/lbs for all these mounts (based on my 1997 DOHC in the Haynes book which vaguely states 'Engine mounts' ) I will stick with this number until otherwise convinced.

8) Cheap tools from Harbor Freight have yet to let me down. Especially their little $13.00 Dremel style hobby tool which I have put through the mill performing some heavy duty bur precise cut off tasks lately.