Battery Reconditioning?

[Signmaster]

Has anyone every used any of the chemical additives (or the available over the shelf stuff) for doing this? I've often found that a real slow trickle charge alone will save a lot of batteries, but not all. I'm just curious since doing this before the battery is gone might extend the life of them.

On a side note, the reason for this question was a dead truck battery that I thought was beyond saving due to complete lack of use and not being maintained properly... I was simply too busy.

BUT... I also realized that now my Duralast battery in the Saturn is some 9 years old and counting. This is for their middle of the road red top non sealed battery. It has already outlasted the OEM under worse conditions, so I'd say it's a pretty good value overall.

[TXSaturn02]

Originally Posted by Signmaster

BUT... I also realized that now my Duralast battery in the Saturn is some 9 years old and counting. . so I'd say it's a pretty good value overall.

I'd say too! Wow, never get more than four years in Houston. The longest a battery has ever lasted me is about three years (parking the car in the sun during the summer kills em).

[fdryer]

The last time I tried battery 'juice' was many years ago and don't remember it working but did replace the battery. Years later and some education says to maintain car batteries with good wiring and electrical systems. You are the expert with holding on to any battery well past its expected lifetime. Since the majority of car batteries are sealed AGM types, the older style wet cells requiring periodic distilled water refills may only need a trickle charger left in place to maintain its charge state. Is this the battery you're asking about? If so then its your call whether its worth a few dollars to experiment on a (9yr old?) battery.

[Signmaster]

Originally Posted by fdryer

The last time I tried battery 'juice' was many years ago and don't remember it working but did replace the battery. Years later and some education says to maintain car batteries with good wiring and electrical systems. You are the expert with holding on to any battery well past its expected lifetime. Since the majority of car batteries are sealed AGM types, the older style wet cells requiring periodic distilled water refills may only need a trickle charger left in place to maintain its charge state. Is this the battery you're asking about? If so then its your call whether its worth a few dollars to experiment on a (9yr old?) battery.

Yes, this is a wet cell lead acid, non sealed battery. The one in question is actually for my truck, but with the Saturn battery being so old I thought it was a good chance to experiment on either or both to see if I get better voltage readings or load test readings.

From all info I have read or watched videos on, the "juice" in any form simply cleans off the cell plates and makes the battery more efficient. I might see if I can find a real low one to experiment on. This is becoming a business in many areas, and if it has no merit they would have a tough time finding customers.


There are also methods to save NiCad batteries. Can you imagine the potential market with the contractors in a given area? I'd look into just for personal use.... I've got several battery tools where replacing the batteries costs as much as a new set. If I'm happy with the old tool, why be forced to replace it?

[madpogue]

Most car batteries are NOT AGM. They're lead-acid "flooded" batteries just like they've been for decades; they're just sealed now. AGM is a completely different battery chemistry, not cheap.

[fdryer]

There's much information on wet cells. Last time I read about them was around Windows 95(?).............. Lead acid batteries have only so much information and I forgot the name(s) for lead coatings (sulphation(?) as they age/wear out before heading to recycling. I'm sure you're aware of wet cell technology and the information needed to know maintenance and end of life determination. The little I remember I think depends on using distilled water to eliminate any particulates and chemicals that are in our drinking water. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much to battery rejuvenation as the safety issues surrounding hazardous chemicals and OSHA in our back yards make battery business not much more than a recycling operation.

The same can be said of ni-cads as I was involved in model flying and reaped a wealth of information from the hobby side. When lithium batteries came into the hobby there wasn't much about them as nickel-metal was the darling. I became well informed lately, following Boeing's embarrassment with several lithium batteries incurring thermal runaway. I was very much interested in lithiums about 10 years ago but little was known but now there's another boat load of info to learn about them. There is always something to learn..........

[sdowney717]

Broken plates and connections to internal lead bus bars dont magically fix themselves. Many batteries that go bad on me had a bad cell with volts dropping to 10.

Then I got one battery which will charge up ok to 13v but cant produce much power. I think it is just juicing by way of the electrolyte, and some internal lead connection is open.

taking them into advance, autozone, the testors print out bad cell, etc...
I have no confidence the battery can be fixed with EDTA,

[97saturn sohc]

quick question how do I start a new thread?

[fdryer]

Originally Posted by madpogue

Most car batteries are NOT AGM. They're lead-acid "flooded" batteries just like they've been for decades; they're just sealed now. AGM is a completely different battery chemistry, not cheap.

Sorry to disagree with you but every ACDELCO car battery installed with the 'green eye' is a sealed maintenance-free one as is medium to top shelf batteries not flooded with battery acid. These batteries use much less water and better designed plates to negate flooding/wet cell technology. Yes, batteries of lower cost/lower rated lifetime are most likely wet cells requiring periodic water replenishment but not the better quality ones that are sealed against water replenishment, having only vents to allow over charging for venting.

I replaced my ACDELCO OEM sealed battery after 6yrs with a Duralast 8yr warranted sealed battery. For $110 and 8yrs, working out to a little over $18 per year, is that too much?

[madpogue]

Delco battery is still not AGM (absorbed glass mat). Even the so-called "sealed" batteries like the green-eye Delco can't be used in other than the upright position.

[OldNuc]

Take that Delco green eye battery out and fire a 30-06 into it and then tell me its an AGM battery. It is a flooded lead acid battery and what makes the eye change colors is the electolite level. As a battery is discharged the level drops and then when recharged it will rise. There is a valve vent on those Delcos so if overcharged severely they do not pop.

As to the battery rejuvenation chemicals, there are some cases where they will buy you some time. They help if the battery has become sulphated but long term slow charge is the best bet to revive one that has sat too long.

[madpogue]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

Take that Delco green eye battery out and fire a 30-06 into it ....

There's probably a whole section of youtube dedicated to recording this very pastime.....

[OldNuc]

They come apart like a big watermelon.

[fdryer]

Wow! Make a statement and become the whipping boy of the moment? Get a life, the two of you. I can make a small mistake associating AGM batteries with ACDELCO and other popular sealed batteries but to be taken to task over it without explanation is..................very childish and shows your lack of tolerance by not correcting me with info.

For the record;

AGM battery technology has continued to develop and offer improvements over other sealed battery technologies. AGM technology has become the next step in the evolution of both starting and deep cycle sealed batteries for marine, RV, and aviation applications. This "next generation" technology delivers increased safety, performance, and service life over all other existing sealed battery types, including gel technology.

In AGM sealed batteries, the acid is absorbed between the plates and immobilized by a very fine fiberglass mat. No silica gel is necessary. This glass mat absorbs and immobilizes the acid while still keeping the acid available to the plates. This allows a fast reaction between acid and plate material.

The AGM battery has an extremely low internal electrical resistance. This, combined with faster acid migration, allows the AGM batteries to deliver and absorb higher rates of amperage than other sealed batteries during discharging and charging. In addition, AGM technology batteries can be charged at normal lead-acid regulated charging voltages, therefore, it is not necessary to recalibrate charging systems or purchase special chargers.

[Signmaster]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

Broken plates and connections to internal lead bus bars dont magically fix themselves. Many batteries that go bad on me had a bad cell with volts dropping to 10.

Then I got one battery which will charge up ok to 13v but cant produce much power. I think it is just juicing by way of the electrolyte, and some internal lead connection is open.

taking them into advance, autozone, the testors print out bad cell, etc...
I have no confidence the battery can be fixed with EDTA,

In those cases there isn't much you can do. I'm speaking of reconditioning batteries that have no dead cells and the hope of further life.


As for slow trickle charging, many have claimed that slower is better. With this in mind I am bringing the truck battery up with a motorcycle charger that is very low output. It took a couple days to get the voltage up enough to crank the truck today, but it works just fine and takes up very little space in the toolbox drawer.

[fdryer]

From Googling and getting back up to speed, critics aside, there was always the fact that growing stuff on the bottom clear area of wet cells is to allow loose particles to sink away from the plates to prevent shorts between cells. The sulphation arising from long term use seems to be irreversible and the main reason for losing battery capacity. Of course there are many other issues that shorten battery life but I recall reading sulphation as the long term issue of battery death.

I think the trickle charge for stand by for most car batteries is the life prolonging answer but how many are willing to plug in a trickle charger or remove a battery for bench charging every so often? Certainly not city dwellers without a garage or others that leave their cars outside and hassling with setting up any charger.

You are right about slow charging as the key to prolonging battery life. And I mean the 1-2 amp ones.

[OldNuc]

Originally Posted by Signmaster

In those cases there isn't much you can do. I'm speaking of reconditioning batteries that have no dead cells and the hope of further life.


As for slow trickle charging, many have claimed that slower is better. With this in mind I am bringing the truck battery up with a motorcycle charger that is very low output. It took a couple days to get the voltage up enough to crank the truck today, but it works just fine and takes up very little space in the toolbox drawer.

Keep the terminal voltage on charge below ~15volts and bes if you can adjust the current to 1/4 amp or so once it approaches full charge. There are $20.00 automatic maintainers that you van connect up and leave. The 1 or 2 amp charger will eventually cook the battery.


This works and you can use it on as many as 3 batteries at once. http://www.batteriesasap.com/12un12v10bac.html

[Signmaster]

I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head, but I know the bike charger is below 1/2 amp. I'll take a look. Completely agree on backing off charge input once the battery gets up near full charge.

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by 97saturn sohc

quick question how do I start a new thread?

Click the "New Thread" button (circled in red in attached picture), in the upper left side of the main forum (before you click on any threads).

To get there from inside a thread, look at the links in the blue/green circle - it's like the "bread crumb" navigation in Windows. Click on S-series Tech to start a thread in this forum, or on Saturn S-Series to see all three S series forums

[Signmaster]

Just a follow up based on some of the posts. The Saturn battery with over 9 years on it now I've done nothing but check the levels of the cells a few times. I don't think I've ever even added water to it, and I've never that I recall had to jump or even trickle charge it. At times it has sat without being driven for several months as well.