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Old 08-08-2021, 09:13 AM   #721
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2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I identified your error 50 posts ago and yet you continue to struggle!
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:28 PM   #722
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

BrandonKastning, when new parts are delivered and you're removing timing belt and idler pulleys, examine the idler posts for bending. Each post should be perpendicular, straight out from the rear timing cover. If I'm not mistaken, the bent rear flange of the idler in the 3 o'clock/lower position may have a bent post, as seen from post#641. If bent, either its obvious or may require a careful pair of eyes to see an ever so slightly bend. Maybe during your struggles to fit new idlers on over a tight new belt, inadvertently using a long screwdriver or prybar tool bent the idler flange and post resulting in that idler misguiding the timing belt towards the rear timing cover and seen on camshaft gears.
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Last edited by fdryer; 08-08-2021 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 08-08-2021, 02:41 PM   #723
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

fdryer,

Will do! Great piece of advice to note and investigate when I am at this stage.

~ Brandon

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
BrandonKastning, when new parts are delivered and you're removing timing belt and idler pulleys, examine the idler posts for bending. Each post should be perpendicular, straight out from the rear timing cover. If I'm not mistaken, the bent rear flange of the idler in the 3 o'clock/lower position may have a bent post, as seen from post#641. If bent, either its obvious or may require a careful pair of eyes to see an ever so slightly bend. Maybe during your struggles to fit new idlers on over a tight new belt, inadvertently using a long screwdriver or prybar tool bent the idler flange and post resulting in that idler misguiding the timing belt towards the rear timing cover and seen on camshaft gears.
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Old 08-08-2021, 04:51 PM   #724
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

fdryer,

Do you happen to know if the timing belt cover slips over the posts or if they are attached to the replacement part, https://gm.vpartsinc.com/p/Saturn__L.../90572785.html

I am thinking on this and trying to figure out how to remedy the situation if you are correct. If the posts are on the block and the cover slides over; then I feel I am S.O.L? If the posts are attached to the cover, then perhaps I could be in luck if this becomes truth.
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:20 PM   #725
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals



This the problem. Brandon has the upper idler set at 10pm and it should be set at 2 or 3 pm. Currently the idler is positioned toward the #2 Cam and the belt must move directly vertical to climb over cam 2. Because the belt has little to no tension, the belt is running off the rear end of BANK 1 after one rotation. In order for the idler to work properly, the belt travel almost directly down and round the upper idler and angle toward the #2 cam. The idler as Brandon has it installed... can not track properly without more tension in that area. Both idlers are set incorrectly, but this one is causing the belt to walk off bank 1 cams!

Just look the difference between the two photos. It is so obvious a caveman could do it!
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Old 08-08-2021, 08:06 PM   #726
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
fdryer,

Do you happen to know if the timing belt cover slips over the posts or if they are attached to the replacement part, https://gm.vpartsinc.com/p/Saturn__L.../90572785.html

I am thinking on this and trying to figure out how to remedy the situation if you are correct. If the posts are on the block and the cover slides over; then I feel I am S.O.L? If the posts are attached to the cover, then perhaps I could be in luck if this becomes truth.
GM parts drawings leave little to the imagination.

1-The spring loaded idler pulley uses a nut so it's presumed the nut attaches to a threaded post. Where the other end of the threaded post goes is anyone's guess.

2-The other two eccentric idlers use a long bolt thru each pulley to thread into a welded on the rear timing cover or behind the cover out of view. If a welded nut isn't used then the idler bolt or goes thru the timing cover to a threaded engine boss.

You'll know as soon as all three idlers are remove unless someone knows and can offer a reply. I wouldn't guess on anything until idler pulleys are removed and all three mounting points are examined. You can remove the pulley bolts and thread each one into their threaded positions to see if they're straight, perpendicular to the cover or engine. This may be difficult to see but a little time spent looking at various angles should tell you if the long bolts are straight or not and/or the threaded boss is straight or not. Maybe a bolt is bent and seen readily when using a straight edge ruler or something. If the timing cover has a threaded nut welded to it from the front, you'll see it. If welded from the back of the cover, threading the long bolt should tell you whether the welded nut is cocked from prying on the bolt and pulley that was deformed.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:13 PM   #727
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

The rear timing cover is just a tin cover, nothing of importance mounts to it. The two upper pulleys mount to the timing belt tensioner bracket assembly which bolts to the rear cylinder head. The lower front pulley bolts through to the block, probably why the different thicknesses of the spacers. I have an engine out so I can take it apart and take pictures if that will finally end this. I also have a running 3.0 in a car with a bad transmission. Just saying this is why I drive and build L200 cars. Page 733 in the 2002 fsm shows the timing belt tensioner bracket. Some of the parts listings sell the complete bracket.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:49 PM   #728
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
The rear timing cover is just a tin cover, nothing of importance mounts to it. The two upper pulleys mount to the timing belt tensioner bracket assembly which bolts to the rear cylinder head. The lower front pulley bolts through to the block, probably why the different thicknesses of the spacers. I have an engine out so I can take it apart and take pictures if that will finally end this. I also have a running 3.0 in a car with a bad transmission. Just saying this is why I drive and build L200 cars. Page 733 in the 2002 fsm shows the timing belt tensioner bracket. Some of the parts listings sell the complete bracket.
You're right. I've developed tunnel vision even when looking at images showing the cast aluminum bracket. It still won't hurt to examine those three mounts for damage.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:32 PM   #729
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

https://smile.amazon.com/MOCA-Timing...02+Saturn+L300
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:36 PM   #730
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I killed the link because it was tied to my account. The tensioner bracket is easy to find online.
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Old 08-09-2021, 12:17 PM   #731
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I had the right splash guard tear off while driving on I80. About a half mile later, I noticed a loss of power and pulled over. I then heard some clunking from the engine compartment but no warning light came on- a timing belt jump might or might not produce one. The engine was acting like the timing belt jumped- irregular rough idle and limited power. Revving the engine produced a rattle sound. Oil and antifreeze is OK. expecting that I ruined the engine, I pulled the plugs to do a compression test. Those looked OK. The engine was cold tested so I expect the compression would be higher on a warm engine of course. Results were:

cylinder 1- 144psi, 2- 161psi, 3- 143, 4- 162psi, 5- 144psi and 6- 170psi

I could not find what compression levels should be but these numbers look ok for a cold engine and are within the 15% disparity for each cyl.

The rattle sounds could be related to the splash guard coming off and hit some wires or it could be perhaps the water pump

Recently, I replaced the serpentine belt and was getting ready to replace the timing belt after I replaced the Fuel feeder tube within a week or so. It would be a kick in the ass if the belt lost a tooth since the replacement was to be replaced soon. Just not soon enough

Miles on engine 112,000- this is the second engine.

thoughts on the broke off right passenger splash guard- wondering if it might have hit the cv axle and damaged it or within the transmission but I do not see damage on the outside.

I started another thread an admin can remove it
Before I break apart the timing cover, any suggestions before I do and thanks for taking the time to reply

Last edited by fan; 08-09-2021 at 12:19 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old 08-09-2021, 01:04 PM   #732
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

It sounds like your belt tensioner is gave up the ghost! I had our tensioner go bad and it caused the #1 Cam to jump a tooth. The engine could hardly run and we heard metal to metal noises. I thought it would be toast. I replaced the timing belt, tensioner and idlers. Retimed the engine and it's been running strong for nearly 20k miles at this point.

I have my splash guard held in place with several 15lb black tie wraps. It's not perfect, but it works and it is actually more snug than the original fasteners.

I wouldn't run your engine until you install a new timing belt kit.

Also, do you have any oil leaking from gaskets? I replaced my valve (cam) cover gaskets, intake(s) and rebuilt the Oil Separator PCV unit to fix excessive crankcase pressure.
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:25 PM   #733
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Alright everyone,

My new boxset GM original timing belt kit came in the mail today.

Good news:

~ GM Original
~ Came with mount & new post for tensioner (This solves any 'bent' IF's)

Bad news:

~ I do not know which side to install the spacer. After inspecting the spacer it appears as if 1 side is more flat than the other.

Do I want to install the flattest side against the block?

I do not want to proceed until I understand which way to install the spacer.

Thank you all!

Gallery.A:
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:26 PM   #734
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Gallery.B:
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:27 PM   #735
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Gallery.C:
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:29 PM   #736
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Gallery.D:

This is my question here... Which side to install the spacer correctly? Flattest side toward the block or toward the idler? FSM doesn't cover this.
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Old 08-11-2021, 04:49 PM   #737
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I think it doesn't make any difference since procedures don't mention which way.
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Old 08-11-2021, 05:03 PM   #738
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

The washer has one function, to space a specific distance between the engine block and the "part". The washer will never spin unless something seriously is screwed up. It makes no difference how it is installed as long as it is not edgeways!
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Old 08-11-2021, 07:28 PM   #739
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Alright; before I go repeating all my same mistakes.

I have installed the idlers with the flattest side of the spacers against the block and tightened them down snug.

I haven't marked them yet; and used an orange line indicating my best understanding of the FSM diagram.

What does the community think of these markings before I go doing the same thing and wasting all of our time.
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:11 PM   #740
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I am second guessing the lower idler now, reviewing this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
Alright; before I go repeating all my same mistakes.

I have installed the idlers with the flattest side of the spacers against the block and tightened them down snug.

I haven't marked them yet; and used an orange line indicating my best understanding of the FSM diagram.

What does the community think of these markings before I go doing the same thing and wasting all of our time.
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