SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-17-2014, 05:03 PM   #1
mattsh
Junior Member
mattsh is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 38
Default 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

I'm at a bit of a loss on this one and hoping someone here might have some gems of wisdom. I've perused the forums and Googled a bit so I have some ideas.

My right front wheel bearing went out at 112,000 and again at 117,000 but has been fine since.

The left front wheel bearing on the other hand has gone out at:
99,000; 117,000; 120,000; 148,000; and now at 160,000

I've done the replacement once myself, and have had two other garages do replacements and yet the bearing is still going bad after approximately 15,000 miles.

This has been a one owner car, and it's never hit a curb or anything like that.
The one garage suggested it could be the spindle assembly, and then someone online suggested it might be a grounding issue with the engine trying to ground through the wheel bearings?

Thoughts?
mattsh is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #2
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,987
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

I don't believe this has anything to do with engine grounding. Unless you are routinely being hit by lightning, I don't think it is an electrical issue of any kind. A few questions: what brand of bearings? wheels are stock width with stock off-set? are the knuckles being remove and bearings replaced using a press? There has been a lot of discussion (and debate) here about how to best R&R the front bearings, but if you are using a "BFH" in any manner, then the R&R procedure would be my first suspect. I think a bent spindle is very unlikely, especially if you know this car hasn't been walloped hard in any way.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 06:49 PM   #3
ModemJunki
Member
ModemJunki is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 73
 

1998 SW1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Replace the "spindle" (knuckle) (try to find a low-miles junkyard assembly, maybe you don't even have to replace it's bearing).

I think on a front wheel drive car it's a knuckle up front, no spindle sticking out there until you insert the axle stub. Spindles on the back in FWD, on the front in RWD, none at all in 4x4 or AWD.

Maybe it was damaged during the first replacement, and each subsequent replacement is deforming/stressing the bearing shell, leading to failure.

I seem to recall this happened to some Subaru Forester owners. The rear bearings (ball) on early models of those were prone to failure. Incorrect replacement procedure led to early failure of the replacement. Eventually a roller type bearing was specified, but they could still fail if the knuckle was deformed by incorrectly performing the R&R.
ModemJunki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 08:49 PM   #4
MikeNW
Master Member
MikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really nice
 
MikeNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lower Alabama= God's country, if God wanted mosquito and red ant bites, and to be covered in mildew
Posts: 3,441
 

1997 SL
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Modernjunki is right, the axle shaft fits through the bearing, it's pulled together by that honkin' big hex nut.

We have: axle shaft, bearing, and knuckle.

Axle fits snugly into bearing, bearing is pressed into knuckle.

Is the knuckle OK?
Is the axle shaft in good condition?
Finally.... the big honkin' nut torque is 145 ft. lbs. I suppose, if it isn't torqued, it would not be good for the bearing. 145 ft. lbs. is hard to achieve by hand. The tire will spin before you hit 145 ft. lbs. Air guns do a better job.
...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
02 Haro MTB- can't kill it, still trying though

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
MikeNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:22 PM   #5
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,987
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

That thing with the flange and four studs, that the brake rotor and wheel bolt to, that's what I call a spindle... semantics, I guess. Like I said, don't see much chance of that being damaged.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 09:42 PM   #6
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

To correctly replace a wheel bearing you replace the bearing, Axle nut, axle nut washer, and the flange. The axle nut must also be correctly torqued. Skip any of these 4 pieces and the bearing may fail. If you have already experienced rapid new bearing failure replace all 4 parts and if you want to take a chance you can just replace bearing, and axle nut.

The knuckle is the large forging that all of these parts are installed onto.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 10:06 PM   #7
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

if this is the older press in/out assy.. and has had 4 bearings in it fail..i would suspect that the knukle had been deformed or were the seals that go with the bearing and the hub the centerpart that has the lugstuds replaced or reused.. also do you remeber the brands of bearings????they are not all created equal.. prefer timkin myself..
...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 10:25 PM   #8
MikeNW
Master Member
MikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really nice
 
MikeNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lower Alabama= God's country, if God wanted mosquito and red ant bites, and to be covered in mildew
Posts: 3,441
 

1997 SL
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

I forgot about the flange (with the 4 studs) Sorry Duh.
...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
02 Haro MTB- can't kill it, still trying though

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
MikeNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 11:01 PM   #9
Highmile
Senior Member
Highmile will become famous soon enoughHighmile will become famous soon enough
 
Highmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 1,312

1995 SL1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNW View Post
Modernjunki is right, the axle shaft fits through the bearing, it's pulled together by that honkin' big hex nut.

We have: axle shaft, bearing, and knuckle.

Axle fits snugly into bearing, bearing is pressed into knuckle.

Is the knuckle OK?
Is the axle shaft in good condition?
Finally.... the big honkin' nut torque is 145 ft. lbs. I suppose, if it isn't torqued, it would not be good for the bearing. 145 ft. lbs. is hard to achieve by hand. The tire will spin before you hit 145 ft. lbs. Air guns do a better job.
Actually when working with bearings an air gun is a bad idea. I've never had the tire slip when torquing the axle nut. If it does, have someone step on the brakes.

Also, you didn't say if the axle nut was replaced with the new wheel bearing. Since it is a lock nut is is a one use nut and should be replaced. Locktite can work as well.

Highmile
'95 SL1 534k and counting
Highmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 11:12 PM   #10
ModemJunki
Member
ModemJunki is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 73
 

1998 SW1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
That thing with the flange and four studs, that the brake rotor and wheel bolt to, that's what I call a spindle... semantics, I guess. Like I said, don't see much chance of that being damaged.
It's the hub. It could be out of spec as well. Any stress on the bearing races can cause premature failure.

Thats why I recommend sourcing a low-mileage assembly from a junkyard. Replace the whole works.
ModemJunki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 01:20 AM   #11
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14,817
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

I haven't had a problem with torquing the axle nut...not with the tire spinning and not with reaching the 145ft/lb mark in the first place but maybe I'm just fat.

The wheel bearing last's a long time once you find someone that knows how to install it, not so much when you're being their guinea pig.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 08:54 PM   #12
mattsh
Junior Member
mattsh is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 38
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Wow this thread really exploded... thanks for all of the commentary.

I too am wondering if the spindle was damaged during the first repair and thus has caused the subsequent failures.

I don't know the brands but it may have been an ACDelco? I'll try to find out.

Replacing the spindle is what we're currently looking to possibly do -- but I'm always hesitant to put on junk yard parts as you don't know the history of it (how do I know it also isn't damaged?)

UGH... This has been a great car (engine still runs like the day it was made), I wish someone still made parts for these cars... I've never owned a 15 year old car that still ran and basically looked like it did the day it was born.
mattsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 09:10 PM   #13
ModemJunki
Member
ModemJunki is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 73
 

1998 SW1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsh View Post
Wow this thread really exploded... thanks for all of the commentary.

I too am wondering if the spindle was damaged during the first repair and thus has caused the subsequent failures.

I don't know the brands but it may have been an ACDelco? I'll try to find out.

Replacing the spindle is what we're currently looking to possibly do -- but I'm always hesitant to put on junk yard parts as you don't know the history of it (how do I know it also isn't damaged?)

UGH... This has been a great car (engine still runs like the day it was made), I wish someone still made parts for these cars... I've never owned a 15 year old car that still ran and basically looked like it did the day it was born.
Most junkyard parts come from vehicles with clear damage descriptions. Try calling a Saturn specialty yard like http://www.saturnautosalvage.com/. At this point you've spent enough time and money - since you're determined to fix it, spend a few dollars more and replace the subassembly. Remember, the issue could be with the knuckle or the hub or both.

And speaking of low mile Saturns... I'm racking them up...
ModemJunki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 09:13 PM   #14
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

You want to buy something like this, check RockAuto for pix. http://www.rockauto.com Search for this by part number and not under the general make/model/year listings. This kit is SKF and includes the bearing, hub (the par everyone wants to call a spindle), and the nut. It is 67.00 + ship which is cheap.

SKF Part # BR930156K

The spindle is the entire assembly and the part these parts assemble into is a knuckle.

Bearing, hub, and nut are supposed to always be replaced at the same time.

Knuckle failure is quite rare and very obvious. Any car in a J/Y that was hit in the rear or has no obvious damage other than a hole in the engine will have a good knuckle if you want to swap yours out but they only cause bearing failure when the bearing will freely drop into place. Junkyard hubs and bearings are most likely expensive junk.

Last edited by OldNuc; 01-18-2014 at 09:18 PM.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 09:28 PM   #15
OlHillbilly
Member
OlHillbilly will become famous soon enough
 
OlHillbilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219

2002 SL1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

And if you do end up needing a knuckle, these folks claim to have them.. http://parts.nalleygmc.com/
...
2002 SL1
1997 SL.. Killed by a texting driver
1994 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
Coupla motorcycles and an assortment of bicycles
OlHillbilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 10:42 PM   #16
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Usually when you need one is right after blasting a curb so the problem and cause is obvious.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 12:59 AM   #17
bestcarever
New Member
bestcarever is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Usually when you need one is right after blasting a curb so the problem and cause is obvious.
Interesting - I was WAY too tired and pulled away from the intersection when the light turned green - and blacked out. Hit the median curb and took out both driver's side tires and rims. Tire store replaced tires under warranty. The wheel bearing noise started right about then.

I agree with the comment about Timken bearings - my parts store provided the replacement as a package deal with both hub and bearings. Recommend you save the old bearing as a help to use in pressing in the new bearings. My son-in-law sleeved the old bearing over a piece of round stock and skinned off a bit of the outer bearing race on the bench grinder (do this carefully!) which made it just nice to use to press in the new bearings.

The bearing noise had reached an intolerable (didn't want to say the unbearable) level and was probably way over OSHA exposure limits for dB - has been a pleasure to drive ever since (noise-wise).

My son-in-law had to apply heat from his oxy-acetylene torch to heat the knuckle before the hub would press out. Not sure how it could have been accomplished without the heat.
bestcarever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 01:03 AM   #18
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Larger press does wonders.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 01:14 AM   #19
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,987
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

I also use an old bearing to push in the new one. You don't have to take much off the OD, it doesn't need to be neat, and only has to be about 1/2" of the bearing length. When you say you had to use heat to "press" the old one out, were you using a real press with proper supports under the knuckle; or were you "pressing" it out with some alternative method? With a press, it has always been a trivial operation for me. Snap-ring out, of course...
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 10:16 AM   #20
Highmile
Senior Member
Highmile will become famous soon enoughHighmile will become famous soon enough
 
Highmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 1,312

1995 SL1
Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL1 On 5th Wheel Bearing

Put the new bearing and axle flange in the deep freezer for 2 or 3 days and heat the knuckle to 300-350 degrees. Of course you've already removed any rust from the bearing bore at this point.

Bearing drops in, no press needed.

Let the bearing heat soak for 5 min or so and the axle flange will normall go thru the first half of the bearing with hand presure. Let it cool and install. Use the axle nut to pull the axle flange in the rest of the way.

Worked for me

Highmile
'95 SL1 534k and counting
Highmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2000 Saturn SL - Front Wheel Bearing Replacement mostapasta S-Series Tech 49 08-11-2018 07:46 AM
Saturn ion wheel bearing problem Shynes Ion Tech 1 10-31-2013 05:31 AM
2000 SL1 wheel bearing justanotherjpr S-Series Tech 1 05-31-2012 07:53 AM
2000 SL1 rear wheel bearing honda72.1@juno. S-Series General 1 09-27-2008 11:21 AM
Wheel Bearing Question - Not Saturn blackeagle1 S-Series Tech 8 02-01-2007 01:34 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:07 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.