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Old 07-14-2012, 05:32 PM   #1
jjroyer
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Default Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

I'm in the process of replacing one of my bad wheel bearings - it is the front passenger side wheel.

I DO NOT have ABS brakes on this car - a 2003 AWD 6 cyl.

There isn't a sensor on the driver side wheel.

For some reason, there is a speed sensor on the passenger side - which is a problem since I already have my mail-order hub sitting here ready to be installed.

Do you think it is possible that they were installing this on the assembly line and this was mistakenly put in on the passenger side? Or is there some other reason this wheel needs a sensor?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

I remember that single sensor is needed for something - speedometer (?).
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Wheel speed sensors are used for ABS and traction control. Mistake on the assembly line?

From the service manual;
The purpose of the Antilock Brake System (ABS) is to minimize wheel slip during heavy braking. The ABS performs this function by monitoring the speed of each wheel and controlling the brake fluid pressure to each wheel independently during an braking event.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

I don't see any offerings on Rock Auto's website for a wheel hub with a sensor for anything else but ABS.

I guess I am going to put the new hub in and see if there are any obvious problems. I will also attempt to follow the wiring and see if it dead-ends somewhere.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

This is the post I remembered . . .
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...64&postcount=6
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjroyer View Post
I guess I am going to put the new hub in and see if there are any obvious problems. I will also attempt to follow the wiring and see if it dead-ends somewhere.
You'll need a hub with sensor ... for my money two of the most trustworthy members are 3RedLines and Chazberry ... in this case Chazberry found an authoritative post by 3RL.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Thanks for the feedback! I thought it seemed a little strange that there would have been this single case of assembly line error.

Guess I'll get online and order another one from Rock. I can save this one and go ahead and replace my driver side while I am at it. (Because I really enjoy replacing wheel hubs!!)
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

As I reviewed the service manual, cruise control uses the wheel speed sensor. There are several speed sensors; two in the transmission and the other four for ABS/TC. My understanding of cc uses the wheel speed sensor in the transmission. There is no mention of a wheel speed sensor in the right front wheel hub except for use in ABS/TC. Perhaps there's an error on my part but there's a quick way to see whether this wheel sensor is used or not; disconnect it and try cruise control - lack of cc with the RF wheel sensor disconnected will confirm that cc needs this sensor but if cc still works then its using the sensor from the transmission.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

I'll give that a try.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
There is no mention of a wheel speed sensor in the right front wheel hub except for use in ABS/TC.
According to my service manual - a Wheel Speed Signal Conditioner Module is mounted in center console - behind shifter assembly.

The module works with a wheel speed sensor (required for L81 - W/O ABS) mounted in right front wheel.

The module provides VSS data to the ECM on circuit 1909 (ECM C2-44).

See thumbnail.

PS - I bet the engineers were surprised to find the Aisan didn't provide a suitable VSS signal and they probably hoped all Vue's would have ABS.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3.0 WO ABS - VSS.jpg (140.2 KB, 54 views)
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Thanks for the clarification. I just ordered another hub from Rock.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Here's my confusion and clarification needed. From the service manual:

Automatic Transmission Output Speed (A/T OSS) Sensor Assembly (62)

The A/T OSS sensor is an active, hall effect pickup located in the top of the transmission case. This sensor is mounted in the case opposite the parking lock gear (253) that is splined to the front differential transfer drive gear carrier assembly (259) shaft. As the front differential transfer drive gear carrier assembly shaft and parking lock gear rotate, a square wave voltage signal is generated by the "teeth" on the parking lock gear as they pass by the pickup. Therefore, whenever the vehicle is moving, the A/T OSS sensor produces a square wave voltage signal proportional to vehicle speed. The voltage output does not depend on rotation speed. Therefore, the sensor is capable of detecting slow rotational speeds. This signal is sent to the TCM.

The square wave form can then be interpreted as transmission output speed by the TCM through the frequency of square waves in a given time frame. The square waves can be thought of as the parking lock gear teeth. Therefore, the more teeth (or waves) that pass by the pickup in a given time frame, the faster the vehicle is moving. The square wave form is compared to a fixed clock signal internally within the TCM to determine transmission output speed.


In another area, the service manual states:

Speedometer

The IPC displays the vehicle speed based on the information from the BCM. The ECM calculates the vehicle speed based on the CAN serial data message indicating the wheel reference speed from the EBCM. The ECM sends a CAN serial data message to the BCM indicating the vehicle speed. The BCM sends a class 2 message to the IPC indicating the vehicle speed.

The speedometer defaults to 0 km/h (0 mph) when any of the following occur:

The EBCM detects a malfunction in the vehicle speed sensor circuit.
The ECM detects a loss of CAN communications with the EBCM.
The BCM detects a loss of CAN communications with the ECM.
The IPC detects a loss of class 2 communications with the BCM.


If a Vue doesn't have ABS then it shouldn't have the electronic brake control module (EBCM). As I understand this, only ABS units need wheel speed sensors as direct inputs to the ECBM. The OP says no ABS and no ABS implies no ECBM that isn't needed if an ABS isn't present.

And finally, cruise control;

Cruise Control Description and Operation

Cruise control is a speed control system that maintains a desired vehicle speed under normal driving conditions at vehicle speeds above 40 km/h (25 mph). Steep grades may cause variations in the selected vehicle speeds.

The following are the main components of the cruise control system:

The accelerator pedal
The clutch start switch, if equipped with a manual transmission
The engine control module (ECM)
The on/off switch
The resume/accel switch
The set/coast switch
The cruise/brake switch
The stop lamp switch
The throttle actuator control (TAC) motor
The vehicle speed sensor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OSS.jpg (138.1 KB, 30 views)
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Much of the material in any FSM are works of fiction - the GM manual is probably no better or worse than others I've used.

Three things (over-load condition) are running through my mind:

1. An able and trusted member stated non-ABS 2003 Vue's need the WSS for the speedometer to operate normally.

2. The OP noted the defective hub removed from his non-ABS 2003 Vue had the WSS.

3. I located info similar to your post but also found data for the speed sensor module and right front WSS. I'm assuming the sensor module processes VSS data in lieu of EBCM.

The logical next step is to suggest OP install the ABS hub and leave WSS connector disconnected to see if speedometer operates.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

I did this a couple of years ago, I can't remember why it is needed but it is. My parts store even had a note about it in the lookup.

jim, 2003 V6 AWD
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim147 View Post
I did this a couple of years ago, I can't remember why it is needed but it is. My parts store even had a note about it in the lookup.

jim, 2003 V6 AWD
This post has probably been resolved one way or the other.

However, I'm thinking future searchers could find it helpful to have service manual diagrams confirming non-ABS 02-03 Vue's with 3.0 apparently need the wheel speed sensor (WSS) in the right front hub for the speedometer to operate. That thumbnail is below.

Now, what is maximum baffling is 02-03 Vue's with-ABS do not use the WSS to establish vehicle speed - they take VSS from the auto trans. That thumbnail is also below.

Differences are in the circuits in lower right corner of each diagram - notice non-ABS inputs VSS on ECM C2-44 and pin is not used on ABS equipped Vue.

I'm surprised more Vue owners don't have a drinking problem.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NonABS WSS Diagram.jpg (107.6 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg ABS WSS Wiring.jpg (96.4 KB, 35 views)
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Hey, I'm a newb here.. I have an '03 VUE 2.2 with a 5 speed manual.

I recently had the clutch changed out (157,000 miles) and now the speedometer, odometer and cc no longer work.

I can't find a speed sensor for my manual equipped vehicle anywhere online nor do I see one on my tranny. Can someone please tell me where the sensor is for a manual transmission or tell me what i should be looking for to fix the problem.

Thanks!
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickaxeguitars View Post
Hey, I'm a newb here.. I have an '03 VUE 2.2 with a 5 speed manual.

I recently had the clutch changed out (157,000 miles) and now the speedometer, odometer and cc no longer work.

I can't find a speed sensor for my manual equipped vehicle anywhere online nor do I see one on my tranny. Can someone please tell me where the sensor is for a manual transmission or tell me what i should be looking for to fix the problem.

Thanks!
Its supposed to be on the transmission ... see post # 4 of this thread:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=163444
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why do I have a wheel speed sensor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickaxeguitars View Post
Hey, I'm a newb here.. I have an '03 VUE 2.2 with a 5 speed manual.

I recently had the clutch changed out (157,000 miles) and now the speedometer, odometer and cc no longer work.

I can't find a speed sensor for my manual equipped vehicle anywhere online nor do I see one on my tranny. Can someone please tell me where the sensor is for a manual transmission or tell me what i should be looking for to fix the problem.

Thanks!
You'll find it mounted vertically in the transmission behind the engine below the the shift cable bracket. I got to it from the top, but I needed a small step because it's quite a reach. A pair of long needlenose pliers were useful to depress the lock tab on the connector and pull it off. Brush any crud from around the area then use a 10mm (I think) socket on a wobble extension to remove the hold down bolt. Twist the sensor around with pliers until it breaks loose. I used a drop of tranny fluid to act as a lubricant which helped loosen the sensor up. Don't be alarmed if it comes out in two pieces (mine did), just keep twisting and pulling and it'll come out. Put a little trans fluid on the o-ring of the new sensor and install. With any luck your only problem is a disconnected wire; the reason I changed mine was a check engine light and 0501 code. Good luck!
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