Cooling System over pressure problem

flyingw80 · 10-21-2003, 12:23 PM

Hi Folks,

I wonder if any of you have had a problem with an SL2 cooling system blowing out heater cores? We are a 3 Saturn family a 92 SL2, 97SL2 and a 03 L300.

Here is my problem...the 92 SL2 (over 150,00 miles) blew out the radiator tank several months back so I replaced it along with the hoses and surge tank cap with a 92 spec cap, a bit later the water pump went out so I replaced it ( all components are new after market). After that the heater core (OEM) went out so I replaced it. Now after 3 more heater cores and 2 97 spec surge tank caps(lower pressure 15lbs vs 18lbs). They are blowing out with regularity. A check with the Saturn dealer got me a "no we don't have any problems or recalls". I suspect Saturn does have a problem since my 97 SL2 had a stress crack in the radiator end tank but they just won't acknowledge it. Is anyone else having problems like this.....I'm about ready to run the thing off a cliff. Arrrrgh

amazinghl · 10-21-2003, 12:41 PM

What about theromstat and ECTS *engine coolant temperature sesnor?

If the ECTS isn't working correctly, the fan will not be turn on when it's suppose to thus raising the pressure of the coolant.

The theromstat is a ~$15 part while the ECTS is a $20 part at your local dealer.

flyingw80 · 10-21-2003, 01:19 PM

The cooling fan works fine.....seems to come on at the proper temp. The condition happens with both the fan on normally and with the A/C on forcing the fan to run. Primarily the blown out conditions happen after several miles of highway driving ranging from 10 to 35 miles. The water temp indicates normal at the time of the condition occuring. Running at highway speeds usually keeps the cooling system cool enough to prevent the fan from coming on.

dixonba · 10-21-2003, 02:31 PM

never heard of that happening before. I would suggest that maybe you have something caught in your coolant system. Other than that...i don't know...

dixonba · 10-21-2003, 02:31 PM

never heard of that happening before. I would suggest that maybe you have something caught in your coolant system. Other than that...i don't know...

flyingw80 · 10-21-2003, 02:37 PM

cooling system seems to flow properly.....I've pressure flushed it from both directions

amazinghl · 10-21-2003, 03:26 PM

Did you use OEM heatercore replacement?

Did all this started to happen after you put the aftermarket radiator in?

flyingw80 · 10-21-2003, 03:57 PM

Yes it is an after market radiator......Why?????

amazinghl · 10-21-2003, 10:00 PM

No, no.

Please read my questions again.

Quote:

Originally posted by amazinghl
Did you use OEM heatercore replacement?

Did all this started to happen after you put the aftermarket radiator in?

Also, do you happen to compare the aftermarket radiator and OEM radiator?

Uglier · 10-21-2003, 10:39 PM

I would verify the coolant temp is OK by heating up the car fully, getting on safety glasses and gloves, opening the radiator cap using a big towel, and sticking in a thermometer or thermocouple, as long as its under 240 F should be OK. If not that, I know nothing about Saturns yet, but from my general experience this sounds like a head gasket leak or even worse a cracked head. What happens is combustion gases get pushed into the water system on the compression stroke (its about 150 psi max even without adding combustion), overpressuring the system. A low tech way to prove this is with the car fully cold, after overnight say, open the overflow tank and if there's a whoosh of pressurized gas coming out you got a problem. Do it again after another heat up/cool down cycle to verify there's still a whoosh. Another check that requires equipment is to stick an exhaust gas anlayzer into the overflow tank gas, if it shows HC there's definitely a leak and then off with its head!!

auxmike · 10-21-2003, 10:40 PM

Could the lower radiator hose be collapsing under load?
My radiator end tank was cracking too on my '97 ,so I put in a CSF radiator.Works fine.
I also saw a used '92 for sale with a cracked end tank in the rad.My '93 also had it at around 100k.They all get the same crack in the same spot with time...every time!

ssicarman · 10-21-2003, 11:50 PM

We have few problems with the heater cores. When you say they are blowing out just what is going on them? If the rad cap is functioning properly as in holding pressure and letting it vent when it gets to high the only things that I can think of are bad anti freeze as in acidic and eating the heater core. The other being rough installation causing the beginning of cracks in the heater core.

flyingw80 · 10-22-2003, 12:05 PM

First to amazinghl....Yes both are after market......whats your point. Cut to the chase here if you think the aftermarket stuff isn't made to the Saturn specs let me know. I fail to see your point. If you have experience with this let me know. It seems to me that a pressure relief cap rated at 15 PSI should handle a pressure spike, after, all thats what the cap is supposed to do. IMHO the stress cracks in the end caps of the OEM radiator is proof that they have a problem. My 97 with yearly changes with with GM Dex-Cool still developed cracks at around 65K. Further more, even though I own 3 Saturns I think their damn parts are priced totally too high.

flyingw80 · 10-22-2003, 12:18 PM

To Ssicarman......The heater cores were installed very carefully with TLC. I've worked on cars all my life.....in and out of racing. in the case of the 92 which is giving problems I use Prestone Ethylene Glycol antifreeze in the system.

flyingw80 · 10-22-2003, 12:26 PM

To Uglier.....now that maybe a good diagnosis.....I can't right now check the system pressure until I get a new heater core installed. I did the usual oil in the coolant check and there was no obvious oil slick on the surface of the coolant or coating the inside of the surge tank. When I get the new core installed I'll do the whoosh check and also put a pressure gage in the system to check for over pressure. This thing has happend at varying intervals after heater core installation the last time after a month or more of daily driving of up to 150 miles daily. The blowout always happens at highway speed in a throttle off condition when I'm slowing down from say about 65 to 70 or so. Thanks

flyingw80 · 10-22-2003, 12:40 PM

To Auxmike......Got a new lower radiator hose as well as the upper hose.....Yes they all crack and its a pity because the little cars are basically otherwise pretty bullet proof. As I said before I own a 92 SL2, 97 SL2 and a 03 L300 which is a darn fine handling car.

goBoating · 10-22-2003, 02:26 PM

Shouldn't the thermostat + radiator + fan be keeping the coolant temperature and pressure below what would make the cap vent?????

So, kinda' smells like a cracked head or head gasket.... a simple, if not cheap, repair.

amazinghl · 10-22-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingw80
First to amazinghl....Yes both are after market......whats your point. Cut to the chase here if you think the aftermarket stuff isn't made to the Saturn specs let me know. I fail to see your point. If you have experience with this let me know. It seems to me that a pressure relief cap rated at 15 PSI should handle a pressure spike, after, all thats what the cap is supposed to do. IMHO the stress cracks in the end caps of the OEM radiator is proof that they have a problem. My 97 with yearly changes with with GM Dex-Cool still developed cracks at around 65K. Further more, even though I own 3 Saturns I think their damn parts are priced totally too high.

Cheez, sorry for trying to help.

I have replaced heatercore, radiator, surge tank, thermostat, waterpump, all last year. So, do I have enough experience?

My point is that I was trying to find out what was the last item you replaced in the coolant system before everything went crazy. Any idea if the size of the radiator is the same size as the OEM one? Where did you get it?

I agree with you that part cost too much, but then when I look at the prices of things of other cars.... I realize the prices are not *too* bad.

flyingw80 · 10-22-2003, 05:37 PM

for amazinghl,

Sorry for being a bit snippy there but this problem is getting a bit frustrating, I have an after market radiator from advance auto parts.......but from what I can tell the over pressure came before that. Its a crossflow radiator that they say is the specific one for the application...all the plastic moldings fit the OEM brackets perfectly...the flues seem to be as large as the OEM ones and jsut as many. Now what did you do to correct the problem. My other problem is that I'm 150 miles from any Saturn dealer so after market parts are easier to obtain readily.

TedL · 10-22-2003, 07:15 PM

That cooling system parts fail after 150,000 miles and 11 years is unremarkable. What is unusual is that you have had three new heater cores fail within a few months. For pressure to be causing it, your original surge tank cap would have been bad. Plausible. But your replacement would also have to be defective.

What is the nature of the failure of the heater cores? Is the pipe blowing out? Is the leak at solder joints? You may have run into a bad batch from the supplier.

Other possibilities include (as noted above) a bad head gasket/cracked head.

Just curious...where are you that's so far from a Saturn dealer?

10-21-2003, 12:23 PM	#1
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	Cooling System over pressure problem Hi Folks, I wonder if any of you have had a problem with an SL2 cooling system blowing out heater cores? We are a 3 Saturn family a 92 SL2, 97SL2 and a 03 L300. Here is my problem...the 92 SL2 (over 150,00 miles) blew out the radiator tank several months back so I replaced it along with the hoses and surge tank cap with a 92 spec cap, a bit later the water pump went out so I replaced it ( all components are new after market). After that the heater core (OEM) went out so I replaced it. Now after 3 more heater cores and 2 97 spec surge tank caps(lower pressure 15lbs vs 18lbs). They are blowing out with regularity. A check with the Saturn dealer got me a "no we don't have any problems or recalls". I suspect Saturn does have a problem since my 97 SL2 had a stress crack in the radiator end tank but they just won't acknowledge it. Is anyone else having problems like this.....I'm about ready to run the thing off a cliff. Arrrrgh

10-21-2003, 12:41 PM	#2
amazinghl Master Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,990	What about theromstat and ECTS *engine coolant temperature sesnor? If the ECTS isn't working correctly, the fan will not be turn on when it's suppose to thus raising the pressure of the coolant. The theromstat is a ~$15 part while the ECTS is a $20 part at your local dealer. ... 85 GLH 367whp. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2261629#post2261629 00 Insight 72mpg

10-21-2003, 03:26 PM	#7
amazinghl Master Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,990	Did you use OEM heatercore replacement? Did all this started to happen after you put the aftermarket radiator in? ... 85 GLH 367whp. http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2261629#post2261629 00 Insight 72mpg

10-21-2003, 11:50 PM	#12
ssicarman Super Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Western Canada Posts: 10,470 ssicarman's Photos	We have few problems with the heater cores. When you say they are blowing out just what is going on them? If the rad cap is functioning properly as in holding pressure and letting it vent when it gets to high the only things that I can think of are bad anti freeze as in acidic and eating the heater core. The other being rough installation causing the beginning of cracks in the heater core. ... A lousy day in paradise is still a day in paradise.

10-22-2003, 02:26 PM	#17
goBoating Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SC Posts: 311 goBoating's Photos 2004 VUE 3.5L 2008 AURA XE	Shouldn't the thermostat + radiator + fan be keeping the coolant temperature and pressure below what would make the cap vent????? So, kinda' smells like a cracked head or head gasket.... a simple, if not cheap, repair. ... Don't Tread on Me A strict constructionist fiscal conservative free market freak I am. "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - M. Thatcher

10-21-2003, 01:19 PM	#3
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	The cooling fan works fine.....seems to come on at the proper temp. The condition happens with both the fan on normally and with the A/C on forcing the fan to run. Primarily the blown out conditions happen after several miles of highway driving ranging from 10 to 35 miles. The water temp indicates normal at the time of the condition occuring. Running at highway speeds usually keeps the cooling system cool enough to prevent the fan from coming on.

10-21-2003, 02:31 PM	#4
dixonba Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Colerain, OH Posts: 397 dixonba's Photos 2007 ION-2 Sedan	never heard of that happening before. I would suggest that maybe you have something caught in your coolant system. Other than that...i don't know...

10-21-2003, 02:37 PM	#6
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	cooling system seems to flow properly.....I've pressure flushed it from both directions

10-21-2003, 03:57 PM	#8
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	Yes it is an after market radiator......Why?????

10-21-2003, 10:39 PM	#10
Uglier Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CT Posts: 57	I would verify the coolant temp is OK by heating up the car fully, getting on safety glasses and gloves, opening the radiator cap using a big towel, and sticking in a thermometer or thermocouple, as long as its under 240 F should be OK. If not that, I know nothing about Saturns yet, but from my general experience this sounds like a head gasket leak or even worse a cracked head. What happens is combustion gases get pushed into the water system on the compression stroke (its about 150 psi max even without adding combustion), overpressuring the system. A low tech way to prove this is with the car fully cold, after overnight say, open the overflow tank and if there's a whoosh of pressurized gas coming out you got a problem. Do it again after another heat up/cool down cycle to verify there's still a whoosh. Another check that requires equipment is to stick an exhaust gas anlayzer into the overflow tank gas, if it shows HC there's definitely a leak and then off with its head!!

10-21-2003, 10:40 PM	#11
auxmike Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Long Island,NY Posts: 1,619	Could the lower radiator hose be collapsing under load? My radiator end tank was cracking too on my '97 ,so I put in a CSF radiator.Works fine. I also saw a used '92 for sale with a cracked end tank in the rad.My '93 also had it at around 100k.They all get the same crack in the same spot with time...every time!

10-22-2003, 12:05 PM	#13
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	First to amazinghl....Yes both are after market......whats your point. Cut to the chase here if you think the aftermarket stuff isn't made to the Saturn specs let me know. I fail to see your point. If you have experience with this let me know. It seems to me that a pressure relief cap rated at 15 PSI should handle a pressure spike, after, all thats what the cap is supposed to do. IMHO the stress cracks in the end caps of the OEM radiator is proof that they have a problem. My 97 with yearly changes with with GM Dex-Cool still developed cracks at around 65K. Further more, even though I own 3 Saturns I think their damn parts are priced totally too high.

10-22-2003, 12:18 PM	#14
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	To Ssicarman......The heater cores were installed very carefully with TLC. I've worked on cars all my life.....in and out of racing. in the case of the 92 which is giving problems I use Prestone Ethylene Glycol antifreeze in the system.

10-22-2003, 12:26 PM	#15
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	To Uglier.....now that maybe a good diagnosis.....I can't right now check the system pressure until I get a new heater core installed. I did the usual oil in the coolant check and there was no obvious oil slick on the surface of the coolant or coating the inside of the surge tank. When I get the new core installed I'll do the whoosh check and also put a pressure gage in the system to check for over pressure. This thing has happend at varying intervals after heater core installation the last time after a month or more of daily driving of up to 150 miles daily. The blowout always happens at highway speed in a throttle off condition when I'm slowing down from say about 65 to 70 or so. Thanks

10-22-2003, 12:40 PM	#16
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	To Auxmike......Got a new lower radiator hose as well as the upper hose.....Yes they all crack and its a pity because the little cars are basically otherwise pretty bullet proof. As I said before I own a 92 SL2, 97 SL2 and a 03 L300 which is a darn fine handling car.

10-22-2003, 05:37 PM	#19
flyingw80 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11	for amazinghl, Sorry for being a bit snippy there but this problem is getting a bit frustrating, I have an after market radiator from advance auto parts.......but from what I can tell the over pressure came before that. Its a crossflow radiator that they say is the specific one for the application...all the plastic moldings fit the OEM brackets perfectly...the flues seem to be as large as the OEM ones and jsut as many. Now what did you do to correct the problem. My other problem is that I'm 150 miles from any Saturn dealer so after market parts are easier to obtain readily.

10-22-2003, 07:15 PM	#20
TedL Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glenmont, NY (near Albany) Posts: 1,640 TedL's Photos	That cooling system parts fail after 150,000 miles and 11 years is unremarkable. What is unusual is that you have had three new heater cores fail within a few months. For pressure to be causing it, your original surge tank cap would have been bad. Plausible. But your replacement would also have to be defective. What is the nature of the failure of the heater cores? Is the pipe blowing out? Is the leak at solder joints? You may have run into a bad batch from the supplier. Other possibilities include (as noted above) a bad head gasket/cracked head. Just curious...where are you that's so far from a Saturn dealer?

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