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Old 06-17-2016, 05:46 PM   #1
carlbo
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1993 SW2
Default 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

Car was starting OK initially, then, later, when hot, cranked awhile before starting. Once it runs, it's great, get good mileage, etc.
Tested fuel regulator which tested high, 41 psi. Supposed to be 31 psi max. Replaced regulator & now get 26 psi running. My question is: The 2 second whirring sound this Saturn's fuel pump is supposed to make does not always happen, so - should this sound always occur when turning key to 'on" ??

I've tried swapping relays, checked the fuse and still the 2 second sound isn't happening every time I turn key to 'on'. It starts OK now, but am wondering if the still intermittent initial 2 second missing whirring sound is an indication of a pump on it's way? No error codes showing. Took fuse box out, and apart, and everything looks OK, no burn indications. Have power to the relay showing with volt meter. Checked fuel pump purple connector wire (12volts) and got +12 volts for ~ 2 seconds before going to zero. Ohm meter connected to fuel pump connector's black(striped) wire & other meter's probe grounded to rear hatch latch shows good ground.

Richpin's video shows +12 volt test for 'good' ground by probing relay pins 87 (hot) & pin 85 (ground). Did not get 12 volts.

Cleaned corrosion in one ground pack in rear inner trunk area near driver side.
I don't have the hook up to directly test the fuel pump pressure at the pump output line.
So guess I do not know whether the 2 second sound is supposed to occur every time the key is turned 'on'. Cleaned other grounds also. Also changed fuel filter.
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Old 06-17-2016, 06:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

If I'm not mistaken, cycling the ignition switch several times in rapid succession won't allow the 2 second pump run to occur every time. There's a built in timer in the pcm to prevent continually priming the pump needlessly. A wait between 10-20 seconds between ignition on cycles is needed. With no time limit on when fuel pumps fail, its anyone's guess when an original pump in your '93 will fail. The only thing you can do is monitor for signs of failure by pressure gauge and how the engine runs in general, excluding all other problems that can mimic pump failure. High mileage and age plays a role in pumps wearing out. For now, as long as you can detect pump running every time in normal driving, don't place too much concern on this. The pump run signal is the same one when the engine is started up and running. The signal stays on until the engine stops running.
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

Time delay is 20 seconds and usually 25 seconds or so.
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:34 PM   #4
carlbo
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1993 SW2
Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

What is the fuel pump whirring sound does not happen when starting the Saturn 1st thing in the morning? Sitting overnight, the fuel system should bleed down ~ 5 or 6 psi, at least according to the repair books I have. I'd think the pump would prime itself at that point and the fuel pump's 2 second whirring sound would easily be detected. If it doesn't make the sound 1st thing in the morning, would that indicate anything?
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

My last post should have asked "What if............", not "What is......". Too late at night & can't see straight.
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:55 PM   #6
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1998 SC2
Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

The pump should run regardless of the line pressure. A FP failure can be many things. Usually it is a either a failing pump or a poor connection in the pump circuit.

When does the pump decide to run?

You can remove the fuel pump relay and carefully jumper between the pin 30 and pin 87 socket on the fuse panel. Look on the BOTTOM of the relay to identify 30 and 87 and pay attention so as to not jumper between incorrect socket positions. You do not have to turn on the key to do this. Do not jam wire into those positions either, use a larger paper clip straightened out and just a good touch will be fine. This should make the pump run if the circuit is good. You may have to connect and disconnect the jumper several times to get a balky pump to run. The fuse panel you want to work in is the one inside of the car.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

I jumped pins 30 & 87 in the fuse box at the fuel pump relay location while my friend had his ear to the gas tank filler cap. He did hear the sound at that point with my touching pin 30 & 87, without my turning on the key. After that, drove 10 miles, shut the car off, came back to vehicle in ~10 minutes and it cranked more than it should before starting. For the rest of the day the car did starting without having extended cranking. Buzzards.

I'm going to try to log how often this cranking happens and also try listening for the whirring sound after different time periods. I'm pretty sure I did wait more than 30 seconds, often, before trying the key & startup. The books I have do not document what that fuel prime delay time is when someone turns on the key to startup & thus primes the pump.

I noticed Richpins video's were using Gen II as his demo car and mine is a Gen I which should be nearly the same when testing the circuitry. The relays pin pattern layout is different between his video demo & my 93 SW2.

Guess I'm not clear on how to test that 2 second prime aspect of the fuel pump. The current fuel pump is not the original as there is 259k mileage. I'm pretty sure the pump is not a Carter, possibly a Spectra Premium. Tank was replaced(hole) this last winter & work was done at a local garage.

While I'm here, anyone know what bolt size & thread is used for the tank straps? I'd like to have some on hand as the garage guy mentioned that it would be a good idea to get new ones.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: 93 sw2 - 2 second fuel pump sound question

To hear the prime it must be quiet.

Turn key to Run and not crank, listen hard as that will start it.

To try again turn key of and actually wait 25 seconds or more, use a watch. Turn key to Run but not crank and listen.

The pump runs the instant the key goes to RUN.
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