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Old 06-16-2020, 09:33 AM   #1
BrandonKastning
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

I am *hoping* that the puller fan runs when the engine is running (idling/cold start/ and if not either of those two; at least during hot run).

I noticed that my engine has been getting incredibly hot to the touch without any alarm from the radiator temp gauge.

I looked it up and it shows the "Puller Fan". I disconnected both electrical connectors and re-connected them to find out this did not change anything.

This hot issue has been going on for some time. Perhaps I have been working on this engine without a Puller Fan running also.

Does anyone have any affirmations for me?

a) Does the Puller Fan supposed to run when the engine is running?

b) Is it on 24/7 or during different stages of the car running?

c) Since it doesn't seem to be functioning at all; if a) and b) prove to be yes and yes; then it only makes sense to replace this part.

Thanks in advance!

~ Brandon
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Both fans run at the same time and ONLY when needed. They are computer controlled and have three speeds. Read your service manual it has good descriptions of all operating modes and how they get three speeds out of two speed motors.
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Old 06-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #3
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
Both fans run at the same time and ONLY when needed. They are computer controlled and have three speeds. Read your service manual it has good descriptions of all operating modes and how they get three speeds out of two speed motors.
Andy
Andy,

Thank you! That's good to know regarding the Puller and Pusher fan's run at the same time and only when needed.

This seems to be even during long runs (30-45 minute idle runs).

My Chilton guide says to use fused jumper wires to bypass the wire connector and verify if the motor is running on the fans.

What I find interesting is the black box that sits next to the battery that I had trouble with earlier on a previous thread (which turns out to be the control box module for the fans). This is the same wrench error I received when I pulled that out when I replaced my battery and forgot to re-connect the ORANGE and BLUE if I remember correctly.

The wrench went away; however it did come back on and I never put two and two together. (Not sure if it's a direct correlation to the problem or not).

The connector pins are 3; not 2. So I am not certain how I would go about doing what Chilton says to do and fuse some jumper wires and throw them on the 12v to check to see.

Probably 1 of the pins is disregarded when using red/black positive/negative is my guess and hope.

Thanks again!

Brandon
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Old 06-16-2020, 03:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
Andy,

Thank you! That's good to know regarding the Puller and Pusher fan's run at the same time and only when needed.

This seems to be even during long runs (30-45 minute idle runs).

My Chilton guide says to use fused jumper wires to bypass the wire connector and verify if the motor is running on the fans.

What I find interesting is the black box that sits next to the battery that I had trouble with earlier on a previous thread (which turns out to be the control box module for the fans). This is the same wrench error I received when I pulled that out when I replaced my battery and forgot to re-connect the ORANGE and BLUE if I remember correctly.

The wrench went away; however it did come back on and I never put two and two together. (Not sure if it's a direct correlation to the problem or not).

The connector pins are 3; not 2. So I am not certain how I would go about doing what Chilton says to do and fuse some jumper wires and throw them on the 12v to check to see.

Probably 1 of the pins is disregarded when using red/black positive/negative is my guess and hope.

Thanks again!

Brandon
Read the FSM! Chiltons is not known for great trouble shooting advice.
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Old 06-16-2020, 03:51 PM   #5
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Pic #1: Puller / Pusher Fan Speeds (@Thanks Andy!)

Pic #2: Diagnostic Troubleshooting Part 1 / 2

Pic #3: Diagnostic Troubleshooting Part 2 / 2


Thinking on this... I wonder if I can ever get either of those temperature changes while sitting in idle regardless of idle length.

What got me on this today was my idling this morning resulted in more exhaust than usual (I feel it's still kicking out built up deposits and such); however it was more than I was noticing over the past couple mornings.

Popped the hood with it still running while it was idling before starting to struggle for the first time (the fan "Puller" was off) ; I haven't been able to visually identify the Pusher fan yet; and it's much smaller from the pictures.

Apparently using the Scan Tool you can order your fans on and off. I am hoping in the future I can properly emulate the GM software with NCX NAXO as a pass-through and utilize this feature. This might help diagnose also.

Thanks!
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Old 06-16-2020, 09:59 PM   #6
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Read the FSM! Chiltons is not known for great trouble shooting advice.
lbraner,

Thanks! The FSM seems to always assume a hoist and often (for instance in this situation is saying to drain the radiator fluid); whereas Chilton doesn't say this.

Does GM/Saturn just assume at the dealer to hoist it and drain the fluids to "go to code" and profit the most or is Chilton forgetting to tell me something.

I will post both pics.
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Old 06-16-2020, 10:15 PM   #7
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Gallery #1 / 3

Chilton vs. FSM
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Old 06-16-2020, 10:16 PM   #8
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Gallery #2 / 3

Chilton vs. FSM
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Old 06-16-2020, 10:17 PM   #9
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Gallery #3 / 3

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Old 06-16-2020, 10:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Did you read the fsm narrative about the fans? There are three wires to each fan because there are two different hot leads and a ground. The fans run in parallel for both mid and high speeds and in series for low.

Yes the fsm is for a professional mechanic and it assumes you have the proper equipment and knowledge to repair the car. The Chilton is for an inexperienced home mechanic and tries to give you some theory and diagnostics with basic tools. Both have their purposes, I am a professional mechanic so I prefer the factory service manual.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
Did you read the fsm narrative about the fans? There are three wires to each fan because there are two different hot leads and a ground. The fans run in parallel for both mid and high speeds and in series for low.

Yes the fsm is for a professional mechanic and it assumes you have the proper equipment and knowledge to repair the car. The Chilton is for an inexperienced home mechanic and tries to give you some theory and diagnostics with basic tools. Both have their purposes, I am a professional mechanic so I prefer the factory service manual.
02 LW300,

Would a standard wire jumper on 1 ground and 1 hot connected directly to a 12 v battery to rule out motor blown?
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Does your scantool display coolant temperatures? Does it display error codes?
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Old 06-17-2020, 01:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Does your scantool display coolant temperatures? Does it display error codes?
fdryer,

Good to see you! Great questions! I checked last night using my cheap orange OBD II read/clear + minimal live data.

I ran the engine and was looking at the live data. I didn't receive any information regarding coolant temperatures. It does display error codes from the check engine light; no wrench decodes and no ABS decodes either.

~ Brandon

P.S. - I haven't seen a DTC code since the last spark plug mis fire that I changed out.
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Did you buy VCX NANO or not? Generic readers will only display emissions errors, P codes. Wrench errors are not generic error codes. VCX NANO will display other codes unique to GM (presuming a GM specific VCX NANO module). Manufacturers specific error codes are U (network), B (body) and C (chassis). Generic readers will not display manufacturers specific codes because every manufacturer chooses how they assign error codes. This makes Ford's U2120 different from GM's U2120, different from FCA's U2120 and so on. Dealers and repair shops can justify high end scantools due to expected high turnover of repairs to have the best scantools available to cover as many vehicles as possible and pass on costs to customers in expertise. Low to moderately priced specific scantools like VCX NANO are tailored to one manufacturer for diyers.

A relative gifted me with a moderately priced OBD II reader. I may be spoiled using it as it displays live data and generic error codes but doesn't display GM/Saturn specific errors. I'm not familiar with every generic reader so I may too presumptuous of generic readers capable of displaying coolant temperatures. VCX NANO fulfills the need to display GM specific error codes.
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Coolant temperature is a must know here, you can run an engine a long time before a cooling fan activates. Try to spin the fan in front of the condenser by hand, those had a history of seizing up from road debris/salt/calcium etc. If your air conditioner works, try turning it on and see if the fan activates, it should. As I said though, we need to know coolant temperature.
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Old 06-17-2020, 08:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
02 LW300,

Would a standard wire jumper on 1 ground and 1 hot connected directly to a 12 v battery to rule out motor blown?
Read wire schismatics and find which two wires are hot and which is ground. Hook jumper wire to ground on negative post on battery and one on ground terminal on fan plug. Then hook jumper wire on hot wire in fan plug and touch other end on positive post on battery. If fan runs repeat on other hot wire on fan plug. If both speeds work then fan is good.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:03 AM   #17
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesl2 View Post
Coolant temperature is a must know here, you can run an engine a long time before a cooling fan activates. Try to spin the fan in front of the condenser by hand, those had a history of seizing up from road debris/salt/calcium etc. If your air conditioner works, try turning it on and see if the fan activates, it should. As I said though, we need to know coolant temperature.
bluesl2,

Thank you for this ... I do not know how to find my coolant temperature at this time and I do not have the proper tool. I was able to get the VCX NANO working with the GM L81 and was able to turn on the fan and cycle the speeds.

When the A/C is turned on (and yes it's hooked up and working), the fans do not come on. This has been causing extensive heat to throttle body + timing belt cover + front intake + 02 sensor cables in the front near the radiator during (moderate to heavy idle).

I ran the engine for 1 hour and captured statistics using the VCX NANO (Thank you fdryer again!!!); I will be making a thread on that and update the coolant temperature if I was able to find it when I was snapping the statistics of each category.

Best Regards,

Brandon Kastning
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:09 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Did you buy VCX NANO or not? Generic readers will only display emissions errors, P codes. Wrench errors are not generic error codes. VCX NANO will display other codes unique to GM (presuming a GM specific VCX NANO module). Manufacturers specific error codes are U (network), B (body) and C (chassis). Generic readers will not display manufacturers specific codes because every manufacturer chooses how they assign error codes. This makes Ford's U2120 different from GM's U2120, different from FCA's U2120 and so on. Dealers and repair shops can justify high end scantools due to expected high turnover of repairs to have the best scantools available to cover as many vehicles as possible and pass on costs to customers in expertise. Low to moderately priced specific scantools like VCX NANO are tailored to one manufacturer for diyers.

A relative gifted me with a moderately priced OBD II reader. I may be spoiled using it as it displays live data and generic error codes but doesn't display GM/Saturn specific errors. I'm not familiar with every generic reader so I may too presumptuous of generic readers capable of displaying coolant temperatures. VCX NANO fulfills the need to display GM specific error codes.
fdryer,

I most certaintly did purchase the NCX NAXO and wow! I got it working too and have a big thread I am prepping!

I captured 1 hour of VCX NAXO + GM L81 Engine (I ran the first diagnostics outputs in IDLE at it's programmed setting of 650 idle) and then ran another at 2,000-2,200 RPM's (just not on everything as it was getting late outside).

On a positive note; with Tech2 Emulated; it says zero DTC's and I cleared history and nothing re-triggered.

That's nice regarding your low end DTC code reader! I can't believe how lucky I got buying the $35 amazon reader/code clearer. Picks up lots and clears effectively.

However; this NCX NANO, fdryer + our L81 Engine's... wow!

Must learn to program each parameter now!!!

Best Regards, always,

Brandon Kastning
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsaturn View Post
Read wire schismatics and find which two wires are hot and which is ground. Hook jumper wire to ground on negative post on battery and one on ground terminal on fan plug. Then hook jumper wire on hot wire in fan plug and touch other end on positive post on battery. If fan runs repeat on other hot wire on fan plug. If both speeds work then fan is good.
Dsaturn,

Thank you for that detailed instructions! Very helpful information I will be happy to be able to reference in the future!

Best Regards,

Brandon Kastning
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:13 PM   #20
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Puller Fan

NCX NAXO + GM L81 Engine --> Tech2 Diagnostics --> Output --> Fan Controls

Fan Control 1:

Part #1 / 4
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