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Old 11-09-2001, 09:57 PM   #1
SpeedPlayer 97sl2
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Post EcoTech is here

Apparently, the corporate EcoTech 2.2L 4-cyl has already worked its way into the 2002 Pontiac Sunfire and GrandAm, and also the Chevy Cavalier. Thoughts?
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Old 11-09-2001, 10:04 PM   #2
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Being picky, but its called ECOTEC
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Old 11-09-2001, 10:28 PM   #3
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They're here now on the Olds Alero and Pontiac Grand Am, mid model year on the uplevel Sunfire and Cavalier. The current 2002 uplevel Sunfires and Cavaliers are still using the Quad 4; presumably until Ecotec supply equals demand or until the Quad 4's are all used up.
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Old 11-09-2001, 10:34 PM   #4
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Next stop for the Ecotec motor: The VUE and ION! (The ION version will probably be de-tuned or of a smaller displacement.)

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Old 11-09-2001, 11:28 PM   #5
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Oops...I meant "ECOTEC"

I don't think there's any chance of the 2.2L going into the ION...Saturn probably doesn't want people to see the 2.2L in the lower-level ION in the upper-level L-series. Of course, Euro manufacturers like BMW do it all the time.
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Old 11-10-2001, 02:31 AM   #6
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Attention I-on the top of dis one..

Greedy thoughts say,
"No, it's our motor. Why does all the rest of GM think they can just come in and pretend it's there motor?"

Serious thoughts say,
"SWEET, now we have over 300,000 engines on the road by the end of 2002 and all of GM will use this engine by 2005. Who wont be building performance parts for it?"

The ION will feature the 1.8L version of the ECOTEC engine. The only difference will be the stroke. This is the whole point of the engine.

ECOTEC fact for the day:
The stock crank is knife edged from the factory.
...
-Adam Chant
2007 Saturn SKY - Supercharged
1997 Saturn SC2 - Stock Rebuild
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Old 11-10-2001, 03:49 AM   #7
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Actually, the shortened stroke could be a harbinger of good things...the only way youre going to get power out of a small motor like that- is to spin the **** out of it. High revving. Unfortunately, a short stroke also means limpwristed low end torque like Honda is notorious for. You know I'm not crazy about this idea now...any performance version would end up being another high strung Civic Si.

Adam, where are you getting this info, if I may ask?
 
Old 11-10-2001, 03:27 PM   #8
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Of course, you could look at it another way...now future generation S cars will have a factory made "stroker" kit that fits your block right out of the box to increase your displacement to 2.2 Liters! Performance part manufacturers, are paying attention? Yee-hah!
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Old 11-11-2001, 03:42 PM   #9
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Happy less displacement, more power?

SCDYNE/Adam,

How much power/torque can ION buyers expect from the 1.8L Ecotec motor?

(1.9L SOHC: 100/114)
(1.9L DOHC: 124/122)

Though the 1.9 DOHC is peppy, I'd like to see at least 10% across the board over the present engine offerings.

Nick

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Old 11-11-2001, 11:03 PM   #10
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Default The greater informed

The details** of my information can't be disclosed at this time, but remember I did just spend a week at SEMA in Las Vegas and GM was the featured manufacturer.

I'm not that up on what the stock numbers for the 1.8L version of the ECOTEC engine will be, plus they may change again by production time.
  • Think of it this way;
  • How uninspiring would it be to have Saturn's new ION product come out with the same performance numbers as the older model engine?
    and
  • Would Saturn be that uninspired?

The thing I like about the smaller displacement is that it 'squares' the block for a perfect Turbo application. Any turbo will put the grunt right back to where it needs to be, and GM is big on roots(positive displacement) blowers that also offers exceptional low end torque.

There are a number of factors that create Torque and with this engine it keeps most of those factors in respectable range. Always remember a longer rod/stroke ratio is favorable and even in the lower stroke models the ratio is excellent at 1.69 compared to a Honda's 1.51

Don't worry about the ability to rev the engine up either, the stock head handles it well with the roller rockers. They are the same as is found in the Northstar, and LT1 engines. With a minor upgrade in components to the valvetrain it can work that 9000 RPM range.

Saturnmeister:
Stroker kits are in the works, both in stock grade and billet configurations. It's just a matter of demand to the supply.


** GM Racing had a 'hands-on' seminar on the performance potential of the ECOTEC2.2L engine that we attended. It was a complete detailed walkthrough of the engine and of the steps they took to make the 650HP engine that is found in the FWD dragster. This included parts, technical numbers, limitations, and what did and didn't work during the build up of the engines found in the SEMA show vehicles. This combined with the 'stuff' we have been doing for over a year now has offered us a respectable advantage in the ECOTEC's performance future.
...
-Adam Chant
2007 Saturn SKY - Supercharged
1997 Saturn SC2 - Stock Rebuild
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: The greater informed

Quote:
Originally posted by SCDYNE
[*]How uninspiring would it be to have Saturn's new ION product come out with the same performance numbers as the older model engine?
and [*]Would Saturn be that uninspired?[/list]
We are talking about the "friendly" division, so...Um, yeah, I can see bean counter central producing this center-instrumented montrosity....and the whole works taking a lackluster 9-10seconds to reach sixty. Might as well be driving DeeB's weezing hybrid car....

[/B]
Quote:
The thing I like about the smaller displacement is that it 'squares' the block for a perfect Turbo application.
Stroker kits are in the works, both in stock grade and billet configurations. It's just a matter of demand to the supply.
[/B]
OK, theyre looking at the after market, that's great- just once again, GM is the last to the party. Also, I don't want to become anyone's guinea pig- I'd really like a factory asskicker, that has the potential for some tuning fun down the road. Right now I'm too busy with work and house remodeling to be tinkering with a brand new car. I'd like to hear they are planning to make sure the IONs don't get sand kicked in thier headlights right out the factory door.
 
Old 11-15-2001, 05:01 PM   #12
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Devil I want an ION with balls, too!

Adam, I agree, it would not work to Saturn's advantage to have the ION be less powerful than the S-Series it will replace next fall. Still, the ION is reported to be a bit larger in dimension and slightly heavier in weight, so whatever hp/torque increase it receives would be welcomed.

Plastic Gravity has a point in that Saturn is the 'friendly' division of GM, and bearing that in mind, making a power statement is not part of its brand strategy. I'm not saying to make a Porsche out of the ION and I don't doubt that the small displacement Ecotec has performance potential. I'm just hoping the bean counters don't take the punch out of it.

People I know who bought their S-Series Saturns in the '90's said they were fun to drive. I don't hear that sentiment as often these days. Forgive me for the Forrest Gump hokeyness, but inspiring is what inspiring does.

- Nick

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Old 11-15-2001, 07:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: The greater informed

Quote:
Originally posted by SCDYNE
  • Think of it this way;
  • How uninspiring would it be to have Saturn's new ION product come out with the same performance numbers as the older model engine?
    and
  • Would Saturn be that uninspired?

Answers to the questions:
#1) Very uninspiring
#2) Yes.

Remember, we are dealing with a company that has been pulling all the "inspiring" items out of their cars since 1992. Headers, rear discs- gone.

If Saturn wanted to inspire, they probably could. However, from the path they seem to be following, the customers will not be inspired because the design team sure as heck isn't.
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