SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-22-2009, 03:58 PM   #1
mx103
New Member
mx103 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Default P0410 error code - HELP

I just bought a nice 1999 SL for my daughter to drive. Its dual ohc 1.9l automatic with 150k mi. leather and sunroof.

The day after bringing it home I decided to freshen it up and baseline it, since it seemed to idle a little rough causing vibrations.
New Plugs, air filter, T stat, anti freeze, and the S shaped hose, from the valve cover to the air intake tube. Started it up and let it idle a while and it's running nice and smooth now.

After about an hour of running I now have the SES light on. I had the code scanned at AutoZone which read P0410.
I fully checked out the Secondary Air Inj system as described in many of the posts here. And it appears to be in good working order.
The air pump turns on and runs for approx 20seconds with the engine hot or cold.
The vacuum switch sends vacuum to the 1 way air valve when the pump runs
The air valve opens and closes depending on vacuum or no vacuum.


Last night I cleaned out the silver tube running to the exhaust manifold, but it wasn't to carboned up. The port to the manifold was partially blocked, about 75%, so I cleaned that out and sent a flexible wire down the length of the manifold in each direction. Then started the motor to blow out the carbon dust.

I put it all back together and still have the SES light.
Other posts here have recommended replacing the ECTS which I just got from AutoZone. I'll try that tonight. I would have got the OEM, but there are no Saturn dealers within 30 mi.

I'm not holding out much hope the ECTS will resolve the issue.

So I'm hoping some of the experts here can offer other recommendations
One thing I wonder about is how long the air pump is supposed to run.
It seemed to run longer while I was inspecting the vehicle at the previous owners.

Thanks in advance
mx103 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-22-2009, 06:17 PM   #2
cfg83
Advanced Member
cfg83 is on a distinguished road
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 905
 
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mc103 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx103 View Post
I just bought a nice 1999 SL for my daughter to drive. Its dual ohc 1.9l automatic with 150k mi. leather and sunroof.

The day after bringing it home I decided to freshen it up and baseline it, since it seemed to idle a little rough causing vibrations.
New Plugs, air filter, T stat, anti freeze, and the S shaped hose, from the valve cover to the air intake tube. Started it up and let it idle a while and it's running nice and smooth now.

After about an hour of running I now have the SES light on. I had the code scanned at AutoZone which read P0410.
I fully checked out the Secondary Air Inj system as described in many of the posts here. And it appears to be in good working order.
The air pump turns on and runs for approx 20seconds with the engine hot or cold.
The vacuum switch sends vacuum to the 1 way air valve when the pump runs
The air valve opens and closes depending on vacuum or no vacuum.


Last night I cleaned out the silver tube running to the exhaust manifold, but it wasn't to carboned up. The port to the manifold was partially blocked, about 75%, so I cleaned that out and sent a flexible wire down the length of the manifold in each direction. Then started the motor to blow out the carbon dust.

I put it all back together and still have the SES light.
Other posts here have recommended replacing the ECTS which I just got from AutoZone. I'll try that tonight. I would have got the OEM, but there are no Saturn dealers within 30 mi.

I'm not holding out much hope the ECTS will resolve the issue.

So I'm hoping some of the experts here can offer other recommendations
One thing I wonder about is how long the air pump is supposed to run.
It seemed to run longer while I was inspecting the vehicle at the previous owners.

Thanks in advance
Do you know the brand of pre-cat 02 sensor you have? OldNuc has stated that the non-OEM Bosch 02 sensors are "sluggish" and will not respond fast enough to pass the test that leads to the P0410 error code.

I am getting that error all the time these days, so I need to do the secondary air injection testing and cleanup. I do have the Bosch sensor, so that may be a contributor to me seeing the code.

CarloSW2
cfg83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 06:32 PM   #3
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Don't bother with the OEM ECTS. the $12 one at your FLAPS is fine, the dealer version is just a bit overpriced. So yeah, good call on getting the one at autozone.

if you need the connector as well (you'll know if it has green corrosion in it), either pull off a IAT sensor wiring from a junkyard Saturn, or speak to Low Saturn, he sells connectors.
...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 07:31 PM   #4
mx103
New Member
mx103 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Not sure on the 02 sensor brand. I would say it looks like the original OEM.
It looks 10 yrs old.

Thanks for that suggestion
mx103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 08:27 PM   #5
mx103
New Member
mx103 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Bummer Just as I suspected.
I installed the ECTS then removed the battery cable to clear the computer.
After a few short trips the SES light is back on.
mx103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 09:42 PM   #6
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

If the light comes back on and it's still P0410..

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410

sounds like an air pump... do these Saturns even HAVE air pumps?
...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 03:51 AM   #7
cfg83
Advanced Member
cfg83 is on a distinguished road
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 905
 
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

adventureoflink -

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
If the light comes back on and it's still P0410..

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410

sounds like an air pump... do these Saturns even HAVE air pumps?
The secondary air injection pump only comes on when you start the car and the engine is cold. It's used to help clean up emissions at startup (I don't know *how* it makes it cleaner). The first time I heard it I thought there was something wrong with my Saturn. I heard this bad whine that went away after 60 seconds. I thought my belt or *something* was rubbing inside the engine bay.

I recently passed California emissions with this error. It *only* effects cold warmups, so it is not critical to emissions compliance.

CarloSW2
cfg83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 03:54 AM   #8
cfg83
Advanced Member
cfg83 is on a distinguished road
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 905
 
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mx103 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx103 View Post
Not sure on the 02 sensor brand. I would say it looks like the original OEM.
It looks 10 yrs old.

Thanks for that suggestion
Since you didn't mention the 02 sensor, that's what I thought.

Hmmmm, wait for an expert to chime in, because OEM 02 sensors can be $$$, but maybe you do need a new 02 sensor. Maybe your 10 year old 02 sensor is on the way out and is as "sluggish" as my Bosch 02 sensor. If it is going bad, this could effect you MPG too.

CarloSW2
cfg83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 07:58 PM   #9
mx103
New Member
mx103 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Ok here's the deal I think.

I decided since the exhaust manifold port leading to the stainless tube, and one way air valve was 75% clogged, there's a good chance the rest of the manifold tubes might be clogged as well.

I removed the exhaust manifold to find I was correct. Not only that, along the air tube duct in the manifold the head has matching small holes maybe 1/4" which run down to the exhaust ports. The two center ports were completely blocked with carbon, and the two outers were about 75% blocked. I removed as much carbon as I could with a pick made from a coat hanger, then sprayed the rest out with PB Blaster and followed up with carb spray cleaner. Until I had good flow into the exhaust ports. I cleaned up the manifold gasket with scotch pad and reassembled every thing back together and left the one way air valve disconnected. I then started the motor and could hear exhaust being blown out the silver tube, as decribed somewhere else in this forum. I didn't have exhaust noise prior to cleaning the ports. Which also means there would be no air flow from the air fan in the other direction. There was a lot of carbon in there. After finishing the reassembly I disconnected the battery to reset the computer again. Then followed up with a 1 hr test drive with a few stop/start cycles along the way. So far so good. No SES light with 30 mi of test driving.

The manifold removal was pretty straight forward. The hardest part was the removal of the ac pump.
mx103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 03:55 AM   #10
cfg83
Advanced Member
cfg83 is on a distinguished road
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 905
 
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mx103 -

Thanks for the update. I wouldn't be surprised if that's also happening in my SW2.

CarloSW2
cfg83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 10:49 AM   #11
matt3536
Junior Member
matt3536 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
mc103 -



Do you know the brand of pre-cat 02 sensor you have? OldNuc has stated that the non-OEM Bosch 02 sensors are "sluggish" and will not respond fast enough to pass the test that leads to the P0410 error code.

I am getting that error all the time these days, so I need to do the secondary air injection testing and cleanup. I do have the Bosch sensor, so that may be a contributor to me seeing the code.

CarloSW2
I put in a bosch O2 sensor and still getting P0410. Is it true that Bosch O2 sensors are sluggish.
matt3536 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 01:24 PM   #12
GOODY2SHZ
Junior Member
GOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The CA High Desert
Posts: 47

1997 SL
2002 SL
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

I know this thread is really old. I'm hoping someone is still following it and can point me in the direction of a video or how-to on how to remove the exhaust manifold to clean it. I've used the search feature but am unable to find anything. I too am getting the P0410 error code on my 02 SL. I've checked everything in the Richpin video and it all checks out. The only thing left is to clean the exhaust manifold. Fingers crossed that someone reads this. Thanks!
GOODY2SHZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 01:42 PM   #13
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to behold
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 3,286

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Not much to it. Be generous with the PB Blaster and take off all the nuts, plus the 3 bolts on the downpipe.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 02:33 PM   #14
GOODY2SHZ
Junior Member
GOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The CA High Desert
Posts: 47

1997 SL
2002 SL
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Wow, thanks for replying so quickly! I'm a pretty rank beginner here so I'm not sure what the "downpipe" is. The rest I think I understand.
GOODY2SHZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 03:24 PM   #15
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to behold
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 3,286

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

The downpipe is the exhaust pipe that connects to and goes down from the iron manifold. My manifold was carbon packed. After cleaning it, during my rebuild, no more 410.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 03:47 PM   #16
Pitcher
Master Member
Pitcher has a spectacular aura aboutPitcher has a spectacular aura aboutPitcher has a spectacular aura about
 
Pitcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,739

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

^ Yes that helps. Same with my 01 SL2.

Part of the reason why I like my '98 SC2 so much; doesn't have one.
...
Proud Owner of an Invincible '98 SC2 Rare "Red Hot" 5-Speed.
Castrol Edge EP + M1 Ext Perf. Oil Filter.

Owned 4 other S-Series.
Pitcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 03:54 PM   #17
GOODY2SHZ
Junior Member
GOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The CA High Desert
Posts: 47

1997 SL
2002 SL
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
The downpipe is the exhaust pipe that connects to and goes down from the iron manifold. My manifold was carbon packed. After cleaning it, during my rebuild, no more 410.
Great. Thank you! Now I'm just wondering if I will have to remove any of the other components from the engine compartment in order to get the manifold out....
GOODY2SHZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 04:20 PM   #18
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to beholdWaiex191 is a splendid one to behold
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 3,286

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Possibly the AC compressor if you have one. That requires taking off the belt, the mounting bolts, and flopping it out of the way with the hoses still attached.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2019, 08:17 PM   #19
GOODY2SHZ
Junior Member
GOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The CA High Desert
Posts: 47

1997 SL
2002 SL
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Possibly the AC compressor if you have one. That requires taking off the belt, the mounting bolts, and flopping it out of the way with the hoses still attached.
Okay. Thank you so much. I probably won't get to it till after Veterans Day. I'll post my results. Thanks again!
GOODY2SHZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 12:13 AM   #20
GOODY2SHZ
Junior Member
GOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of lightGOODY2SHZ is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The CA High Desert
Posts: 47

1997 SL
2002 SL
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

So we pulled off the exhaust manifold and cleaned it out but it wasn't very dirty and there were no obstructions. Cleared the code and then drove the car. The SES light came back on after around 40 miles. We've already done the full diagnostic from the Richpin video and everything seemed to be working properly. But there are a few things I'm not sure about.

First, with all the normal noise and vibration from the engine, I couldn't really be sure whether or not the smog pump was actually coming on. If I do a cold start then immediately go out and put my hand on the pump, should I be able to feel a definite change when it shuts off in about 30 seconds? How can I know for sure it's coming on? There's power at the switch to the pump and at the switch to the diverter, and there's a vacuum at both hoses attached to the diverter.

The other thing I am unsure about is the diverter. When we disconnected the silver tube from it, there was air coming out of the diverter but it wasn't very strong. The pump may have already turned off at that point, not sure if that made a difference. Or maybe that's just the way it's supposed to be.....

Anyway, any help figuring out what we should do next would be greatly appreciated.
GOODY2SHZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check Engine error code P0410 Bleach S-Series Tech 6 06-05-2016 06:06 PM
P0410 Error Code pgp_protector S-Series Tech 5 08-18-2009 12:12 PM
P0410 Error and Frustration: psmaglik1965 S-Series Tech 4 03-26-2008 08:50 AM
p0410 code storm_amoure S-Series General 3 11-10-2007 04:12 PM
Code P0410 Yellow Hornet S-Series Tech 2 01-25-2005 11:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.