02 Saturn SS Project (Super Saturn)

[Shadow_S001]

Car: 2002 Saturn SL1
Mileage: 236+K
Trans: 4spd Auto
Motor: 1.9 DOHC 16V

Exterior color:
Current Color: Maroon/Burgundy
Future Color: Midnight Black with Monster Green Pin-stripping
Interior color:
Current: Carcol grey lower and beige upper
Future: Charcol Grey complete with black accent
Rims:
Current: Stock 15's with after market hubs
Future: Unknown at this time

Exterior Modifications:
*Custom Headlight and Tail Lights
*After market rims with slightly wider tires all terrain tires.
*After market body modifications including front and rear bumper change, nothing fancy but enough to make a difference maybe something like a lip or something plus new spoiler and mirrors. Also gonna change the front fenders out for vented fenders and add a fender flare to help with the new tire width. Plus add a new hood with vents on it to help with the relocation of the cold air induction.
*Midnight black paint (flat) with a green pin stripe accent on the hood, sides, and back of trunk
*relocation of the third brake light from the interior roof to the lower deck maybe even complete removal to make way for a upper window decal honoring my wifes uncle who was a cop that was killed in the line of duty
*after marker lights on the trunk that will tie into the current brakes, tail, and reverse lights.
*12 inch off road led bar in the center of the bumper front and two 4 inch square led lights in the front bumper for additional night driving and fog driving with 2 more squares mounted into the rear for additional reverse lighting. (all leds inside and out with be Type S color changers with remote app)
* headlight/tail light/clearance marker installed hide-a-way strobes in amber/white

Interior Modifications:
*custom headliner with after market Type S dome light and mini-led lights over the doors in the back where the o-****** handles and clothes hooks are normally at for personalized lighting options for the passengers in the back (probably in red so they can have it one while driving)
*after market head unit with aux/usb port (unknown brand yet) with 8's in the deck, 8's in the front doors, and small amp. No subs in the trunk as of yet. but i would like to build a custom inlay for the sides of the trunk where it dips in behind the tail lights to add 10's there.
*led lights in the trunk once the fabrication is done for the speakers.
*multi-color strips under the dash and front seats to give a nice glow.
*re-do the back seats with fabrics maybe even swap the bench for two buckets giving additional room for mods in-between the seats. would have to fab a wall between the seats and trunk as the back seat folds down.
*racing front seats from sparco.
*gonna look into after market gauages for the dash. would love to go digital like some cars. would love to have a HUD that displays speed on the windshield like from the movie Need for Speed in the Mustang. (any thoughts would be helpful)
*more to come later on the interior............................

Mechanical Modifications:
*full motor swap to brand new with all new parts. (may consider VW diesel swap in compatiable)
*new transmission (looking to manual conversion with the highest number gears available for this car type that will bolt up unless i get different motor)
*performance exhaust front to back
*2 inch lift maybe rally suspension (only cause my in-laws live in the country and down rough dirt roads)

not very knowledgable on mechanical things so this area im not sure about until the part comes to pass. I know what i wanna do just not sure how to go about getting it done or whats needed.

Will have pics of the progress as it comes to pass. before and after.

[fetchitfido]

I'd suggest learning what the car is first before putting too much thought into modifying it. Wanting parts for the DOHC while asking for SL or SL1 or SC1 or SW1 or SWP parts is just going to result in frustration for you.

Lifting a FWD just sounds stupid to me, like all those people that lower 4x4 trucks. Not sure the axles have room for even 2" of lift. Kinda makes sense if it's going to spend most of it's time off pavement though. May want to disassemble the transmission and beef up the differential pin though. I'm not sure if the autotragic is as easy to fix as the 5spd, here's a guide on the 5spd: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=190919

If you're going to be adding in any electronic things the first thing I'd do is get an aftermarket 10-20 spot fuse box and wire the cigarette lighter as well as 100% of the 'new' items to it just to save the stock wiring from itself.

[Jonasan308]

Interesting project, but...
236k? Are you sure you want to drop that much cash on such a high mileage car? If youre from the north, take a look under your car and see if its really worth messing with.

You do have an SL1 right? If thats it, and the motor hasnt been swapped, that means the engine is an SOHC.
SOHC should have a metal valve cover thats silver. It also appears to be pretty small. DOHC of that year should have a black plastic valve cover. Automatic and SOHC equals a very slow (12 seconds to get to 60 from a dead stop) car that isnt really worth trying to modify like this.

If you arent knowledgable on mechanics, this project is going to cost you alot. It already is if you actually go through with it.

Generally, no one bothers trying to modify the SOHC cars. About all you can do with them is upgrade the suspension or mod them to be more fuel efficient. I hear turbos on the SOHC engine end with a car that puts out a disappointing amount of power for the work involved.

The other stuff, you can do, but why? On a slow compact car made in 2001? Lifting it may sound great for rougher than normal road, but will probably make it handle like crap on normal roads. I wouldnt go through with that.

My personal dream saturn would probably be a lightly turbocharged but stock looking SL2. Id like to be able to make 200-220 hp and be able to dust most cars save for V8s. Some suspension upgrades, bigger but lighter wheels, somewhat wide tires, exhaust upgrade and *maybe* a small wing type spoiler.

Diesel swap, someone has done it, but thats more involved and is probably going to cost you alot.

If you do anything elecrical, be sure to follow the suggestion to wire the cig lighter to the battery. Otherwise, youll get out to your car and it wont start. You wont have a chime, dome light, and no power to fuel pump. The car wasnt designed to handle modern electronics and this will happen if you try to make it use additional electronics.

Can you give us a bit of background on the vehicle? It sounds like someone gave it to you or you bought it and want to spend a bunch of cash to make it *look* good.

[Shadow_S001]

Originally Posted by Jonasan308

Interesting project, but...
236k? Are you sure you want to drop that much cash on such a high mileage car? If youre from the north, take a look under your car and see if its really worth messing with.

You do have an SL1 right? If thats it, and the motor hasnt been swapped, that means the engine is an SOHC.
SOHC should have a metal valve cover thats silver. It also appears to be pretty small. DOHC of that year should have a black plastic valve cover. Automatic and SOHC equals a very slow (12 seconds to get to 60 from a dead stop) car that isnt really worth trying to modify like this.

If you arent knowledgable on mechanics, this project is going to cost you alot. It already is if you actually go through with it.

Generally, no one bothers trying to modify the SOHC cars. About all you can do with them is upgrade the suspension or mod them to be more fuel efficient. I hear turbos on the SOHC engine end with a car that puts out a disappointing amount of power for the work involved.

The other stuff, you can do, but why? On a slow compact car made in 2001? Lifting it may sound great for rougher than normal road, but will probably make it handle like crap on normal roads. I wouldnt go through with that.

My personal dream saturn would probably be a lightly turbocharged but stock looking SL2. Id like to be able to make 200-220 hp and be able to dust most cars save for V8s. Some suspension upgrades, bigger but lighter wheels, somewhat wide tires, exhaust upgrade and *maybe* a small wing type spoiler.

Diesel swap, someone has done it, but thats more involved and is probably going to cost you alot.

If you do anything elecrical, be sure to follow the suggestion to wire the cig lighter to the battery. Otherwise, youll get out to your car and it wont start. You wont have a chime, dome light, and no power to fuel pump. The car wasnt designed to handle modern electronics and this will happen if you try to make it use additional electronics.

Can you give us a bit of background on the vehicle? It sounds like someone gave it to you or you bought it and want to spend a bunch of cash to make it *look* good.

My father in law bought it in 2011 for my wife. we live in tennessee but the car has a bit of rust. but nothing to bad looks mostly surface. and according to the vin its a 1.9 DOHC and the top is black with the spark plugs sitting on top. ill include pics at later time. as far as background on the car i dont really know much but the body is still in good condition and the motor isnt to bad either other then the fact its using alot of oil. if i can find someone to rebuild the motor vs swapping i might do that instead

[Shadow_S001]

If yall check the members photo gallery under my name u will see some exterior shots of my car. ill have to take some of the interior and engine

[Jonasan308]

I see. Then, that would be the SL2. A maroon red 3rd gen with spoiler.

In that case, you have the engine that takes better to power modifications. And the better suspension.

How much oil are you using up? At that mileage, probably alot. My car burns 1 quart at 1000-1200 miles, and im closing in on 171,000k miles.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by Shadow_S001

Car: 2002 Saturn SL1
Mileage: 236+K
Trans: 4spd Auto
Motor: 1.9 DOHC 16V

Exterior color:
Current Color: Maroon/Burgundy
Future Color: Midnight Black with Monster Green Pin-stripping
Interior color:
Current: Carcol grey lower and beige upper
Future: Charcol Grey complete with black accent
Rims:
Current: Stock 15's with after market hubs
Future: Unknown at this time

Exterior Modifications:
*Custom Headlight and Tail Lights
*After market rims with slightly wider tires all terrain tires.
*After market body modifications including front and rear bumper change, nothing fancy but enough to make a difference maybe something like a lip or something plus new spoiler and mirrors. Also gonna change the front fenders out for vented fenders and add a fender flare to help with the new tire width. Plus add a new hood with vents on it to help with the relocation of the cold air induction.
*Midnight black paint (flat) with a green pin stripe accent on the hood, sides, and back of trunk
*relocation of the third brake light from the interior roof to the lower deck maybe even complete removal to make way for a upper window decal honoring my wifes uncle who was a cop that was killed in the line of duty
*after marker lights on the trunk that will tie into the current brakes, tail, and reverse lights.
*12 inch off road led bar in the center of the bumper front and two 4 inch square led lights in the front bumper for additional night driving and fog driving with 2 more squares mounted into the rear for additional reverse lighting. (all leds inside and out with be Type S color changers with remote app)
* headlight/tail light/clearance marker installed hide-a-way strobes in amber/white

Interior Modifications:
*custom headliner with after market Type S dome light and mini-led lights over the doors in the back where the o-****** handles and clothes hooks are normally at for personalized lighting options for the passengers in the back (probably in red so they can have it one while driving)
*after market head unit with aux/usb port (unknown brand yet) with 8's in the deck, 8's in the front doors, and small amp. No subs in the trunk as of yet. but i would like to build a custom inlay for the sides of the trunk where it dips in behind the tail lights to add 10's there.
*led lights in the trunk once the fabrication is done for the speakers.
*multi-color strips under the dash and front seats to give a nice glow.
*re-do the back seats with fabrics maybe even swap the bench for two buckets giving additional room for mods in-between the seats. would have to fab a wall between the seats and trunk as the back seat folds down.
*racing front seats from sparco.
*gonna look into after market gauages for the dash. would love to go digital like some cars. would love to have a HUD that displays speed on the windshield like from the movie Need for Speed in the Mustang. (any thoughts would be helpful)
*more to come later on the interior............................

Mechanical Modifications:
*full motor swap to brand new with all new parts. (may consider VW diesel swap in compatiable)
*new transmission (looking to manual conversion with the highest number gears available for this car type that will bolt up unless i get different motor)
*performance exhaust front to back
*2 inch lift maybe rally suspension (only cause my in-laws live in the country and down rough dirt roads)

not very knowledgable on mechanical things so this area im not sure about until the part comes to pass. I know what i wanna do just not sure how to go about getting it done or whats needed.

Will have pics of the progress as it comes to pass. before and after.

Start with your intake manifold. Ditch that plastic manifold, and replace it with a SOHC intake off a 1999 Saturn SC1, SW1, or SL1.

The "1" is for Single Cam engines.
The "2" is for Dual Cam engines.

This is VERY IMPORTANT, because Hollander Interchange(what salvage yards typically use for their inventory identifications) only lists the 1991-2002 Saturn as "S-Series".

The 1999 Intake manifold can be utilized with any 3rd Gen head(2000-2002).

Once you have that manifold bolted on, get the Geo Storm 1.6L SOHC throttle body unit, and there is a write-up on how to convert it to the Saturn S-Series intake manifold on SaturnSpot.com

The larger bore throttle is going give you the most bang for your buck, because it will shift your power slightly, more towards the higher rpms.

Your peak torque occurs at 2,400rpm, and peak HP at like 4,500 rpm.

From there, I suggest Magnecor 8.5mm wires(Great Value), or Granatelli 0-ohm HP series wires(Best Value). Granatelli males two different types of wires: MPG for low-rpm torque, and HP for high rpm HP.

You have plenty of torque, so go for broke, since your TB would be leaning towards higher revs. The block is identical to a DOHC, which means it can respond similar to modifications that improve air VELOCITY. Improving your air VOLUME will also help, because you have a single, large valve, in each side of the cylinder.

If you don't mind the "Service Engine Soon" light being on, chop off your catalytic converter, and replace it with a straightpipe. Once again, this is a modification that will shift your peak torque/HP further into high revs. Male sure you don't have emissions testing in your state, before you do this.

The benefit of this engine, sacrificing some low-rpm power won't phase the engine performance much, because the camshaft profile is geared for gobs of low-rpm power.

Use NGK spark plugs. The single cam doesn't benefit from having the spark plug in the dead center of the combustion chamber, so fancy plugs are a waste and rarely add much power. NGK copper will do you fine.

Grab some Accel 45,000v coils.

Delete the A/C(if it is equipped), aside from freeing up 1-2hp, you will drop a good 60+ lbs off the total vehicle weight. Saturns are already light, but every bit helps.

In the end, you will still only have moved from 100hp to about maybe 110-115hp.

Stock DOHCs have 124HP, but this isn't a simple engine swap scenario.

You have automatic.

If you perform a DOHC swap, you MUST make sure to get the correct PCM amd transmission(if you are keeping the automatic).

The SOHC PCM will NOT run correct air/fuel ratios or ignition timing, on the DOHC. And once engine rpm doesn't match the programmed rpm for VSS values, the PCM will sense "Incorrect Ratio" for each gear, and lock them out(which causes "Limp Mode" & the "Service Engine Soon" light to come on).

Getting a DOHC/5-speed combo, with a correct PCM will minimize your issues there.

[Jonasan308]

Originally Posted by Saturn Night

Start with your intake manifold. Ditch that plastic manifold, and replace it with a SOHC intake off a 1999 Saturn SC1, SW1, or SL1.

The "1" is for Single Cam engines.
The "2" is for Dual Cam engines.

This is VERY IMPORTANT, because Hollander Interchange(what salvage yards typically use for their inventory identifications) only lists the 1991-2002 Saturn as "S-Series".

The 1999 Intake manifold can be utilized with any 3rd Gen head(2000-2002).

Once you have that manifold bolted on, get the Geo Storm 1.6L SOHC throttle body unit, and there is a write-up on how to convert it to the Saturn S-Series intake manifold on SaturnSpot.com

The larger bore throttle is going give you the most bang for your buck, because it will shift your power slightly, more towards the higher rpms.

Your peak torque occurs at 2,400rpm, and peak HP at like 4,500 rpm.

From there, I suggest Magnecor 8.5mm wires(Great Value), or Granatelli 0-ohm HP series wires(Best Value). Granatelli males two different types of wires: MPG for low-rpm torque, and HP for high rpm HP.

You have plenty of torque, so go for broke, since your TB would be leaning towards higher revs. The block is identical to a DOHC, which means it can respond similar to modifications that improve air VELOCITY. Improving your air VOLUME will also help, because you have a single, large valve, in each side of the cylinder.

If you don't mind the "Service Engine Soon" light being on, chop off your catalytic converter, and replace it with a straightpipe. Once again, this is a modification that will shift your peak torque/HP further into high revs. Male sure you don't have emissions testing in your state, before you do this.

The benefit of this engine, sacrificing some low-rpm power won't phase the engine performance much, because the camshaft profile is geared for gobs of low-rpm power.

Use NGK spark plugs. The single cam doesn't benefit from having the spark plug in the dead center of the combustion chamber, so fancy plugs are a waste and rarely add much power. NGK copper will do you fine.

Grab some Accel 45,000v coils.

Delete the A/C(if it is equipped), aside from freeing up 1-2hp, you will drop a good 60+ lbs off the total vehicle weight. Saturns are already light, but every bit helps.

In the end, you will still only have moved from 100hp to about maybe 110-115hp.

Stock DOHCs have 124HP, but this isn't a simple engine swap scenario.

You have automatic.

If you perform a DOHC swap, you MUST make sure to get the correct PCM amd transmission(if you are keeping the automatic).

The SOHC PCM will NOT run correct air/fuel ratios or ignition timing, on the DOHC. And once engine rpm doesn't match the programmed rpm for VSS values, the PCM will sense "Incorrect Ratio" for each gear, and lock them out(which causes "Limp Mode" & the "Service Engine Soon" light to come on).

Getting a DOHC/5-speed combo, with a correct PCM will minimize your issues there.

The op posted pics of his car, and unless the engine has been changed, looks like he has a maroon 3rd gen sl2.
The SOHC of that year has the aluminum intake, i can verify this because i checked out a 01 SL1 and i took pics, definitely doesnt have a plastic intake manifold.

[fetchitfido]

Originally Posted by Jonasan308

The SOHC of any year has the aluminum intake, i can verify this because i looked at any SOHC ever made

Fixed
Though, to be fair, '91-'94 SOHC's have an intake setup that looks more like the '00-'02 DOHC setup.

[Shadow_S001]

thank you for your thoughts. i am uploading new pics. these are of the engine. its a 16 valve twin cam. and im not looking to add a whole lot of power to this as it will still be a family car. so im not losing the the cat. and those things you spoke of for the SOHC wont help as mine is a DOHC..

The swap i spoke of was gonna be either a new DOHC to replace current or get a Turbo Diesel motor from a VW or something and put in it. But having thought about the process of replacing the wiring harness on it for the diesel conversion ill just stick to either rebuilding the current motor or replacing it with a new DOHC. but i will be swapping to a manual. Any one know what the manual trans is? 4spd or 5spd

[Shadow_S001]

oh and for those that might ask,

what im wanting to get out of it is about 10-15 more horse if possible and maybe some torque and take off. i mean its not gonna be a racer by no means. i dont race any more.

the biggest thing thats gonna come out of this is looks and style and handling. Performance isnt a must but is welcome. mostly what im looking for from the engine is longevity and dependability can im wanting to take it to shows which is my comfort zone now. lol Show not Go so to speak

[fetchitfido]

15hp at the crank is found with a 4-2-1 header and cold air intake. The CAI fits better on the manuals (5 gears) but can be made to fit the automatic's if you custom add a "kick out" around the trans filter.

Getting a MP3 5spd will give a bit more acceleration at the expense of MPG and top speed in each gear (MP2's from a SOHC have longer gearing) but is a must if you want CC to work without a bunch of electrical hackery.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by Shadow_S001

thank you for your thoughts. i am uploading new pics. these are of the engine. its a 16 valve twin cam. and im not looking to add a whole lot of power to this as it will still be a family car. so im not losing the the cat. and those things you spoke of for the SOHC wont help as mine is a DOHC..

The swap i spoke of was gonna be either a new DOHC to replace current or get a Turbo Diesel motor from a VW or something and put in it. But having thought about the process of replacing the wiring harness on it for the diesel conversion ill just stick to either rebuilding the current motor or replacing it with a new DOHC. but i will be swapping to a manual. Any one know what the manual trans is? 4spd or 5spd

A minor misinterpretation. Actually ALL of those upgrades WILL help even MORE on a DOHC.

Grassroots Motorsports chopped the converter off, left all stock pipes and muffler, to find a 9hp gain on the DOHC.

Good luck finding somebody WILLING to rebuild your Saturn engine. Everyone I call, as soon as I say "Saturn", either don't return my call or tell me the rebuild is worth more than my car.

All of those modifications will improve the performance of any engine, in different levels.

Putting a turbo on it is rather expensive. You'll be looking at about $800-$1,400 for the kit, plus labor, and then you will NEED a stand-a-lone ECM, in addition to your PCM for the transmission.

The Megasquirt system can run between $250-$1,500 depending on how advanced of a unit you want, and if you don't know anything about tuning, you are more likely to blow your engine sky high.

And unless you like replacing transmissions, with that turbo, about every 10,000 miles, you better plan on putting up some serious cash for a manual gearbox. Automatics can only handle about 190-200hp, before the clutches begin slipping. A turbo will put you close to 220hp, with even the smaller units.

Thank you for responding, and being "politely dismissive" because you think one extra cam makes a difference on the validity of my suggestions.

The only difference that extra cam makes, is how much of a difference in performance is felt by the driver of the car.

Any improvement to air flow volume and velocity, will improve power on any engine, provided more fuel is added to maintain proper a/f ratios(which the short-term fuel trims/long-term fuel trims will do as commanded by the PCM).

Manual Transmissions have been 5spd on pretty much every car produced, since 1985, by the way.

Four speed manuals were phased put just after the oil embargo crisis of the 1970s, because of government mandates for better fuel economy imposed on the automakers.

There are, however, TWO manual 5 speeds available. I can be nice and tell you what they are or post a link, but I think I would rather let you do your own work on this one while "politely dismissing" my suggestions again......

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by fetchitfido

15hp at the crank is found with a 4-2-1 header and cold air intake. The CAI fits better on the manuals (5 gears) but can be made to fit the automatic's if you custom add a "kick out" around the trans filter.

Getting a MP3 5spd will give a bit more acceleration at the expense of MPG and top speed in each gear (MP2's from a SOHC have longer gearing) but is a must if you want CC to work without a bunch of electrical hackery.

That 15hp is without a muffler, maybe. The stock header/Y-pipe, minus the cat and muffler only add 12hp. The stock muffler robs you of 3hp. The stock cat robs you of 9hp.

And with his year, he would have to change his head to a 1996-1998 head, to use the stock header. He has a 3rd Gen.

He CAN utilize the 1999 Aluminum Intake for DOHC, though, as the intake pprts were not changed in 2000. Only the manifold was changed.

Unfortunately, he is stuck with that junk plastic valve cover that always warps, causing excessive oil leaks. Replacements, from GM, are only around $400(but at least they aren't discontinued like the aluminum covers are).

Then again, he could change the head out for a 1996-1998 head, and use the aluminum cover from the older gens

[Medtactics]

The 3rd Gen valve cover does not have the same issue as it's wider head breatheren, at least no where near as bad as them.

As for the CAT removal recent test and automakers just admitted that the second O2 sensors are actually used to monitor the temperature and can modify fuel trims by 40% (although they claimed up to 3%). So unless you have an aftermarket ECU, replace it with a spun cat... And all (most) rally events require some form of a cat installed.

If you fo lift the car it's going to cost around 2k for custom CV-shafts. And if you do get them made be sure to use Tompson Couplings for true CV-joints at any angle.
Unless you don't mind replacing them all the time.

[Shadow_S001]

Originally Posted by Saturn Night

A minor misinterpretation. Actually ALL of those upgrades WILL help even MORE on a DOHC.

Grassroots Motorsports chopped the converter off, left all stock pipes and muffler, to find a 9hp gain on the DOHC.

Good luck finding somebody WILLING to rebuild your Saturn engine. Everyone I call, as soon as I say "Saturn", either don't return my call or tell me the rebuild is worth more than my car.

All of those modifications will improve the performance of any engine, in different levels.

Putting a turbo on it is rather expensive. You'll be looking at about $800-$1,400 for the kit, plus labor, and then you will NEED a stand-a-lone ECM, in addition to your PCM for the transmission.

The Megasquirt system can run between $250-$1,500 depending on how advanced of a unit you want, and if you don't know anything about tuning, you are more likely to blow your engine sky high.

And unless you like replacing transmissions, with that turbo, about every 10,000 miles, you better plan on putting up some serious cash for a manual gearbox. Automatics can only handle about 190-200hp, before the clutches begin slipping. A turbo will put you close to 220hp, with even the smaller units.

Thank you for responding, and being "politely dismissive" because you think one extra cam makes a difference on the validity of my suggestions.

The only difference that extra cam makes, is how much of a difference in performance is felt by the driver of the car.

Any improvement to air flow volume and velocity, will improve power on any engine, provided more fuel is added to maintain proper a/f ratios(which the short-term fuel trims/long-term fuel trims will do as commanded by the PCM).

Manual Transmissions have been 5spd on pretty much every car produced, since 1985, by the way.

Four speed manuals were phased put just after the oil embargo crisis of the 1970s, because of government mandates for better fuel economy imposed on the automakers.

There are, however, TWO manual 5 speeds available. I can be nice and tell you what they are or post a link, but I think I would rather let you do your own work on this one while "politely dismissing" my suggestions again......

wasnt trying to be a A about it or anything was just informing that it a dual not single so that u could update the info you was giving me just incase the stuff you said for the single wouldnt work on my dual. that was all. i was being nice about it.

[Shadow_S001]

ok so i have another question here. sitting and talking about cats and exhaust.

first im thinking about keeping the cat and stock exhaust though replacing it for a newer version as its older, but im kinda wanting a quiter sounding car, though ive already lost the muffle on it and replaced it with a straight piece. also i wanna keep the cat cause of the post o2 sensor just cause it helps keep the computer in check and the lights off granted im giving up hp.

second is there a way to add a y pipe or splitter to the exhaust post cat to make duals? does the sub frame chassis allow for this and still function and does it help or hurt the car? or is it merly looks and sound

[Shadow_S001]

Originally Posted by Medtactics

The 3rd Gen valve cover does not have the same issue as it's wider head breatheren, at least no where near as bad as them.

As for the CAT removal recent test and automakers just admitted that the second O2 sensors are actually used to monitor the temperature and can modify fuel trims by 40% (although they claimed up to 3%). So unless you have an aftermarket ECU, replace it with a spun cat... And all (most) rally events require some form of a cat installed.

If you fo lift the car it's going to cost around 2k for custom CV-shafts. And if you do get them made be sure to use Tompson Couplings for true CV-joints at any angle.
Unless you don't mind replacing them all the time.

thanks med. im still not sure if i wanna lift yet or not. biggest thing im wanting to achieve here is ground clearance so when im on back roads in the country i can go through at better speeds and not risk ripping the oil pan out. ive done that before in a maxima and it was bad.

[Medtactics]

You won't have to worry about the oil pan as much as the radiator (sticks more so) and the aero tray for the radiator and the front bumper. The motor is pretty well protected.

However the brake and fuel lines can be damaged easily when going through softer dirt/gravel and sand or ruts, whenever your dragging the frame pretty much.

Post cat duels I would only say yes, if you plan to side-exit before the rear wheels. You could split after the wheels, but there would be a tow hook in the way.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by Shadow_S001

ok so i have another question here. sitting and talking about cats and exhaust.

first im thinking about keeping the cat and stock exhaust though replacing it for a newer version as its older, but im kinda wanting a quiter sounding car, though ive already lost the muffle on it and replaced it with a straight piece. also i wanna keep the cat cause of the post o2 sensor just cause it helps keep the computer in check and the lights off granted im giving up hp.

second is there a way to add a y pipe or splitter to the exhaust post cat to make duals? does the sub frame chassis allow for this and still function and does it help or hurt the car? or is it merly looks and sound

If you remove the resonator, you could fit two smaller-diameter pipes in the cavity of your frame, however, you will run into an issue with the routing once you get to the fuel tank(which is plastic) and rear suspension. Also, you will want to change the rear bumper cover or cut yours to fit the extra muffler.

Removal of the resonator will increase sound, however, instead of reducing it.

Since your exhaust gases cool down very quickly, upon exiting the converter, it would be recommended to use exhaust tape on each pipe. Smaller diameter pipes will restrict flow volume in cubic feet/minute(CFM), and cooler air is more dense which causes a sharp drop in velocity as well.

The Saturn engine is an "undersquare" engine. The stroke throw of the piston(up/down travel) is greater than the diameter of each cylinder. Velocity losses/gains affect these engines and their efficiency much more than volume(CFM) changes. You may hurt the engine's fuel economy and performance with a dual exhaust system.

Even the stock 1991-1992 Saturn header/Y-pipe converged into ONE pipe at the converter(the Y-pipe is actually the "balance" pipe between each group of two cylinders).