SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Mods

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2017, 01:35 AM   #1
scw2
Member
scw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of light
 
scw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 236

1997 SW2
1999 SC2
Default Deebs build questions

I wanna do this but when i search for the build i find several different things saying to use different parts. Here is what i have so far for parts to use:

3rd gen block, pistons, rods (was a single cam engine but shouldnt matter?)

98 dohc head, crank

#1 question i have before i get into this is do i have to shave the 3rd gen pistons down for clearance or will it stay in the cylinder with the second gen crank?

#2 is there something in the second gen head that needs to be removed to prevent oil starvation

#3 what head gasket and head studs do i use or are they all the same?

Thanks in advance
scw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-22-2017, 07:52 AM   #2
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,128
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

Depending on goal & skills there's different parts to use.

3rd gen pistons with 2nd gen rods = shave pistons. Can get higher compression this way than any other way.
3rd gen pistons with 3rd gen rods = no mods

All question's answered: http://sixthsphere.com/showthread.ph...sistancy-check

If you have the head shaved, you need the timing cover shaved the same amount otherwise the valve cover won't seal as well, if at all.
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 01:14 PM   #3
scw2
Member
scw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of light
 
scw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 236

1997 SW2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

Ok idk if i missed it or what but how do you know how much to shave the pistons down
scw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 08:32 PM   #4
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,128
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

I've not seen an exact number posted but the piston height should be a spec that's findable, get that for both style pistons and subtract the shorter from the taller to find what the exact difference is. Take 2/3 of that number (1/3 shorter) and shave the piston down that much to start with. Probably more trouble than it's worth unless you or a buddy own/work in a machine shop.
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 10:48 PM   #5
scw2
Member
scw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of lightscw2 is a glorious beacon of light
 
scw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 236

1997 SW2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

Ya it might just make more sence for me to shave the head and use ffv.
scw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2017, 02:29 PM   #6
SC2Sick
Advanced Member
SC2Sick will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 740

1997 SC2
1995 SW2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

IMO - if you have to purchase the parts it's not worth the hassle.. go through Gude and get high compression pistons and matched rods for $400 balanced, gapped, and ready to drop in.

If you had the stuff laying around then by all means, frankenstein away.

99+ SOHC pistons/rods should be the same, but you will miss out on the tie plate.. you should at least use the DOHC windage tray from some donor if you can find one.

I've mixed and matched cranks.. the only thing of concern is making sure you have the correct timing chain sprocket for the crank.
...
sixthsphere.com owner
2002 Saturn SC2 - RHD
SC2Sick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2017, 03:30 PM   #7
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
Ya it might just make more sence for me to shave the head and use ffv.
Milling head or block retards the timing. You can end up with a net loss if not extremely careful.

The purpose of the rod/piston swap is to make flat top pistons. This requires a complete engine rebalance for best results.

Using the 00-02 crank will decrease the available max acceleration rate and increases the lower end stresses requiring the 00-02 reinforced lower end support parts to prevent main bearing deflection.

Fuel that will perform adequately in a higher compression engine with a stock PCM will be difficult to impossible to find. This pushes you into a MegaSquirt and/or DIY fuel blending with additives that are priced at $20.0/gallon or so.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 06:33 PM   #8
hinsonracing
Junior Member
hinsonracing is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 24
Default Re: Deebs build questions

Okay guys I need some serious brass tacks and hard facts. I'm in no way new to working on cars and engines (Master ASE certified for 12 years), however, I am new when it comes to modifying from stock. I dirt track race my saturns and have built my own engines. So far I have racked up some wins and championships, but competition is getting tougher to keep up with and out run. I have had luck with just stock bores and simple dual intake swaps with a lightweight flywheel. I want to dig a little deeper and here is where I need some help/advice. I want to degree my engine in a little better because I have roughly .060" shaved between the head and block. I already know that the precise timing has been changed do to the machine work but I am having trouble with the figures I've measured trying to degree (please NOTE math is not my forte) Here is what I have measured.

I apologize if my TDC, ATDC, Acronyms aren't right. I am used to just assembling with factory marks.

Intake @ .050"
Opens at 10 degrees ATDC
Closes at 26 degrees ABDC

By what I have learned reading on the subject her is my equation for the intake.

10 + 226 = 236
2352 = 118
118 - 107.25 (centerline) = 10.75 degrees retarded?

Being I have dual intake camshafts I dont have a real solution for the equation but here is my measurements.

Exhaust @ .050"
Opens at 50 degrees ABDC
Closes at 168 After ABDC

Any and all actual help not opinions would be greatly appreciated.
hinsonracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 09:49 PM   #9
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Deebs build questions

OBX makes adjustable camshaft sprockets that can be use to fix the retard. On the 98 and older head each link is 9.47 degrees and that might just fix it, or get you close enough.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 11:25 PM   #10
hinsonracing
Junior Member
hinsonracing is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 24
Default Re: Deebs build questions

I understand and know about what will need to be done to correct the timing. The information I'm trying to get is information on degreeing for a twin intake camshafts setup. I'm not sure if my figures are right or not.
hinsonracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
deebs build questions... rockrtboy S-Series Mods 4 10-05-2016 10:25 PM
1/2 Deebs build, just swapping pistons/rods Finkle S-Series Mods 7 09-17-2016 01:32 PM
copper top-deebs build scw2 S-Series Tech 20 04-21-2015 12:14 AM
Deebs build complete 41 Plymouth S-Series Mods 8 10-08-2014 11:02 PM
99 pistons? deebs build incamystic50 S-Series Mods 8 10-16-2013 12:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.