SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Ion > Ion General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2021, 04:51 PM   #1
Elsongs
Member
Elsongs is on a distinguished road
 
Elsongs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 205
 

2005 ION-2 Sedan
Default 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

My trusty 2005 ION2 won't start all of a sudden in my driveway.

The battery is fine - I've even had it fully recharged. Headlights don't dim when I try to start the car. No cranking sound whatsoever.

I've tried to start it in Neutral but I can't even shift it out of Park.

The odometer display also reads "PWR STR" and "COOLANT."

I can't tap on the starter because it's buried deep down in there.

Do I just have a bad starter, or is it a more complex issue?
Elsongs is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 12-15-2021, 08:11 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,576
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Headlights are not the best way to determine if a battery is old and can't power the starter - the only part that draws the most current (anywhere from 50-150 amps). Most batteries die right around its end of warranty. Headlights may draw up to 15 amps, nowhere near the amps for starters.

Your Ion uses electronic starting; turn the ignition switch sending a start command signal to the pcm. If security is disabled then the pcm sends a command signal to the START relay in the engine fuse panel, closing a set of contacts sending 12v battery power to the starter relay. The starter relay powers up and closes a set of heavy duty contacts to send battery power to the starter motor. Your Ion was one step away from having electronic push button starting. Troubleshooting can be complicated if not familiar separating main power issues (battery, battery cables and their connections) from electronic starting circuits.

Unless you know how old your battery is, either remove it and have it tested at any auto store selling car batteries or try charging it at home. Most auto stores will provide free testing. Another alternative is using a portable jump pack or jumper cables connecting another car battery to your Ion. Connections should be at the engine. Negative jumper clip to bare metal on the engine block, red jumper clip to a stud labeled in large red letters REMOTE START (terminal) next to the main fuse panel. This bypasses possible problems with negative and positive cables in the trunk mounted battery. The red battery cable runs all the way from trunk to engine bay, connected to the REMOTE START stud/terminal.

If the Brake Transmission Shift Interlock (BTSI) is faulty and preventing the shifter from unlocking to move it out of Park position, you should be able to move it with the ignition switch in the ACC position (second detent), not in RUN position. There is a mechanical bypass too.

https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=86091
https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=167021
https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=183467

Last edited by fdryer; 12-15-2021 at 08:17 PM.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 08:28 PM   #3
Elsongs
Member
Elsongs is on a distinguished road
 
Elsongs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 205
 

2005 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Unless you know how old your battery is, either remove it and have it tested at any auto store selling car batteries or try charging it at home.
My battery was bought in early 2019. I am at home; my car is sitting in my driveway and was fully charged last night using a battery charger.
Elsongs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 11:03 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,576
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Please don't assume a relatively new battery is fine. A boost pack or boost using jumper cables and battery from another car can eliminate a suspect battery in a long list of troubleshooting given.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2021, 09:28 AM   #5
that1man
Member
that1man is just really nicethat1man is just really nicethat1man is just really nicethat1man is just really nicethat1man is just really nice
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 228

2006 RELAY-2
2007 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

I have an issue with my ignition not cranking the starter and have been trying to troubleshoot for a while. I can start the car because I ran a jumper wire from the starter directly to the positive hookup right next to the underhood fuse box, which ruledout a bad starter. After researching so much and trying to find the problem I glanced at this little key under there steering column. I knew of its existence but I didn't think to check it until this morning and when I pulled it out I discovered it was corroded like acid got on it. Looks like when battery terminals corrosion gets bad.

I think this might have been my ignition issue for months. I need to find out how to either bypass this or get a replacement key but the slot itself is corroded inside as well so I really want to bypass it. Here arbsime pics of the key I'm referring to..

https://ibb.co/1LDgf9n
https://ibb.co/B321z5Z
https://ibb.co/RgCMxh1
https://ibb.co/ZT8wvxV

I also had to remove the battery to charge it after trying to troubleshoot the ignition problem, which ultimately resulted in keeping the engine from starting I think due to triggering the anti-theft system from battery being out for too long. Hope that makes sense. I do know I can start the car by jumping the starter without the security key inserted, thank God, but if you have this key as well you might want to check it out.

Also try the 10 minutes 3 anti-theft security reset method. This helped me yesterday...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...CJE1zcvj5_Hwfb

Although the instructions say to do the same thing 3, what ultimately ended up actually working for me was

1. Put the key in and turn it all the way (as if you are trying to start the engine) and then release to "RUN" position, as if the engine actually started and then wait for the security light stops blinking and turns off.

2. Turn the key back to off (keeping it inserted) then turn to the run position (not like trying to start the engine) and wait until the security light goes off again then try to start.

I only had to do those 2 steps. Both times take 10 minutes for the security light to stop flashing/go out. Now, my security light is on and solid but I think it might have something to do with that key below being corroded, not sure tho.

This may not be the issue in your case but maybe it is. Hope it helps tho.

Any tips on bypassing that key or replacing it would be much appreciated if anyone knows anything

Thanks and good luck to OP!
that1man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2021, 02:01 PM   #6
ruley73
Master Member
ruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to behold
 
ruley73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Is this heaven?....No, it's Iowa!
Posts: 3,115
 
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
I have an issue with my ignition not cranking the starter and have been trying to troubleshoot for a while. I can start the car because I ran a jumper wire from the starter directly to the positive hookup right next to the underhood fuse box, which ruledout a bad starter. After researching so much and trying to find the problem I glanced at this little key under there steering column. I knew of its existence but I didn't think to check it until this morning and when I pulled it out I discovered it was corroded like acid got on it. Looks like when battery terminals corrosion gets bad.

I think this might have been my ignition issue for months. I need to find out how to either bypass this or get a replacement key but the slot itself is corroded inside as well so I really want to bypass it. Here arbsime pics of the key I'm referring to..

https://ibb.co/1LDgf9n
https://ibb.co/B321z5Z
https://ibb.co/RgCMxh1
https://ibb.co/ZT8wvxV

I also had to remove the battery to charge it after trying to troubleshoot the ignition problem, which ultimately resulted in keeping the engine from starting I think due to triggering the anti-theft system from battery being out for too long. Hope that makes sense. I do know I can start the car by jumping the starter without the security key inserted, thank God, but if you have this key as well you might want to check it out.

Also try the 10 minutes 3 anti-theft security reset method. This helped me yesterday...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...CJE1zcvj5_Hwfb

Although the instructions say to do the same thing 3, what ultimately ended up actually working for me was

1. Put the key in and turn it all the way (as if you are trying to start the engine) and then release to "RUN" position, as if the engine actually started and then wait for the security light stops blinking and turns off.

2. Turn the key back to off (keeping it inserted) then turn to the run position (not like trying to start the engine) and wait until the security light goes off again then try to start.

I only had to do those 2 steps. Both times take 10 minutes for the security light to stop flashing/go out. Now, my security light is on and solid but I think it might have something to do with that key below being corroded, not sure tho.

This may not be the issue in your case but maybe it is. Hope it helps tho.

Any tips on bypassing that key or replacing it would be much appreciated if anyone knows anything

Thanks and good luck to OP!
I'm glad you got your situation figured out. That is definitely an aftermarket anti-theft device. These cars definitely did not come from the factory with this. You should be able to disconnect it and restore the wiring to it's original configuration.
...
2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 183K miles *gone*
2007 Chevy Equinox LT 205K miles
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 74K miles
ruley73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2021, 02:02 PM   #7
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,576
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

that1man, those snapshots are an aftermarket security system. It was either dealer or privately installed. This was added to the factory Passlock security system with its yellow or 'SECURITY' indicator. Some aftermarket security systems may intefere with factory security, triggering Passlock to prevent normal starting and mentioned in owners manuals against it for warranty liability and voiding new vehicle warranty. You have discovered the hard ward way why your Ion couldn't startup due to this aftermarket security system building up corrosion over the years. Without an indicator to warn you of it working or not, you won't have any way to tell if this is interfering with Passlock or not. Passlock will tell you via its indicator in one of four ways; off, blinking once every few seconds/enabled, flashing quickly/activated from a theft attempt/disabling the starting circuit, and always on/failed internal self tests/disabled.

The aftermarket security must be wired into factory Passlock to prevent inadvertent Passlock activation at the most inconvenient time, locking you out from starting and driving away. Unless you have receipts of where this system was installed or a product name to research online for info, you might be stuck with it unless you're familiar with electrical wiring and electronic security systems (Passlock) to determine if removing it is feasible. You have several options; clean key and socket of corrosion and continue using it as long as it doesn't interfere with everyday starting and doesn't trigger Passlock (flashing indicator), find wiring diagrams or have knowledge of electrical wiring to cut and splice wires together to remove this security circuit altogether to restore wiring back to factory condition and continue using Passlock via remote key fob.

The simplest and least invasive of continued use of this aftermarket security system might be cleaning the removable key with its exposed brass plated 'keys' and using either a disposable brass bristle brush made for small parts cleaning to remove corrosion or add some alcohol to brushing. The socket this key fits into may be a little more difficult to clean. If one wire in the back of it has voltage, using alcohol and a Q-tip to swab the internal contacts may short circuit and create more problems. If you have a multimeter, measure all pins for voltage with the black probe touching bare metal ground. If you're lucky and voltage isn't on any pins, use whatever means available to clean out the socket of corrosion. There are at least two products that are safe for live circuits, electrical contact cleaner in canned spray or De-Oxit. A Q-tip can help remove large debris and allow better electrical contacts between the key and its female connections. Electrical contact cleaner sprayed on helps remove corrosion and dries leaving no residue. De-Oxit may leave a light coating of non conducting film to reduce future corrosion. A light coating of Vaseline can help against corrosion too.

Passlock, when viewing its security indicator is helpful. Normally off when driving, using a remote to Lock doors enables Passlock with a blinking security indicator. Pressing Unlock disables Passlock. If a theft attempt is made and Passlock is activated, the indicator flashes quickly, disables the starting circuit and may disable injector operation. You would know if Passlock security was flashing and you tried bypass wiring to power the starter with ignition on. While the starter powers up, either the engine starts and runs or not. Thieves aren't interested in detailed info, just whether the vehicle can startup and drive away with or without the ignition key. If the starter can't power up, most thieves cut and run. Very smart thieves already know how to use security as is and drive away. Info is out there for anyone willing to spend time researching how stealing vehicles requires knowing factory security systems then determining how to use it to their advantage.

If you can determine whether or not Passlock is triggered on (flashing mode) or this aftermarket security key is interfering with starting, this can help narrow down which one is the problem.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20211226_121308.jpg (135.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 20211226_121217.jpg (25.5 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20211226_121352.jpg (96.3 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by fdryer; 12-26-2021 at 02:11 PM.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2022, 06:49 PM   #8
Elsongs
Member
Elsongs is on a distinguished road
 
Elsongs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 205
 

2005 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

This is the diagnostic report from the mobile mechanic (12/18/2021):



Verify customer concerned vehicle will not crank. Check harness integrity from fuse box to starter, okay at this time. Checked fuses in fuse box crank relay and starter relay all check out okay. Connected to DLC and found communication to all modules BCM and IPC are operational. Check communication to ECM no comms found. Diagnostic circuit check failed. Scan tool does not have communication with ECM and will not allow any other modules to communicate with it. Found DTC-U1000 class 2 data link issue. Utilizing data bus diagnostic tool and watched serial data to ECM is present but no communication emanating out from ECM. This is necessary to energize the secondary starter crank relay and engage starter operation. Manually cranked starter electronically and engine does crank. Attempted to bypass starter relay and starter will not crank without ground being provided by ECM. Operated BCM bidirectional control of wipers and door locks correct response was observed. Instrument panel cluster also has bi-directional control. Checked all grounds and powers to ECM and all were present. Grounds registered less than 0.2 ohms at chassis and engine.

Recommend replacing ECM and verifying proper operation.
Elsongs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2022, 07:16 PM   #9
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,576
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Did the mobile tech acknowledge the aftermarket security device? Does he know if it disables the ecm when you stated earlier the ability to start the engine manually? Manually starting the engine implies the ecm was working to keep the engine running. Did this change?
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2022, 11:40 AM   #10
ruley73
Master Member
ruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to beholdruley73 is a splendid one to behold
 
ruley73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Is this heaven?....No, it's Iowa!
Posts: 3,115
 
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Did the mobile tech acknowledge the aftermarket security device? Does he know if it disables the ecm when you stated earlier the ability to start the engine manually? Manually starting the engine implies the ecm was working to keep the engine running. Did this change?
That was a different member (that1man). Regarding the post by Elsongs, their mechanic's report didn't say they started the engine manually. My interpretation is that they manually energized the starter and determined it was fine because the engine cranked over, but the engine didn't actually start and run.
...
2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 183K miles *gone*
2007 Chevy Equinox LT 205K miles
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 74K miles
ruley73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2022, 12:36 PM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,576
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 ION2 - Won't Start

ruley73, you're absolutely right! I had to re-read this thread to see where I went off the cliff in my previous reply.


Elsongs, my apology for the confusion, mistaking your posts from that1man with his aftermarket security key issues. Please disregard post#9. If you haven't already replaced the ecm as suggested by your mobile mechanic, there's no mention of Passlock security indications during starting. If I'm not mistaken, Passlock has four modes; off, enabled/blinking indicator when remote Lock is pressed, active/flashing indicator when a theft attempt is made without using remote to Unlock, On all the time when Passlock self tests determines an internal fault and disables itself from interfering with everyday starting. When Passlock security is flashing, the ecm will not send a START command to the Start Relay to initiate starting. This is the Ion theft deterrent program to prevent starting. The mobile mechanic bypassing the START relay to allow engine starting is confusing. Does this mean the engine started up or only verify the starter operates? The report stated that a ground signal is needed to operate the START relay. I presume this is the START command from ecm to the START relay. Is Passlock flashing during starting?
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ION2 Tire Questions(2005) kbg1 Ion General 5 02-15-2007 09:41 PM
Cold Start Engine Noise 2005 Ion2 kbg1 Ion General 7 10-14-2006 03:34 PM
Stolen and totaled 2005 Ion2 jef Ion General 11 04-03-2006 09:41 AM
Haunted 2005 Ion2??? Azik Ion General 18 03-30-2005 02:28 AM
2005 ion2 top speed stealth Ion General 22 03-11-2005 12:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:24 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.