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Old 09-06-2007, 04:18 PM   #1
bskicrash1
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Dizzy Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

The past two weeks I have been fixing the car due to an engine fire... i've got a long thread here explaining what happened and the process needed to get the charging system working properly...

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=105184


I have one problem left..

The car has difficulty starting... and when it does, the idle is very rough... When I put the car in gear... especially reverse... the idle drops down to about 300 rpms and just putts there with no power... if i give it gas, it stalls... the check engine soon light blinks at me.

what should I be loooking for???


I don't think the car would make it to advanced auto to hook the car up to their code reader.... Anything I can be looking for here????


thanks,
Robert
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

A blinking SES light indicates a serious miss. One bad enough to cause damage to the cat. Is the idle high? Did it burn any vacuum hoses? Remember there's one going from the firewall to the cannister purge solenoid.
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
A blinking SES light indicates a serious miss. One bad enough to cause damage to the cat. Is the idle high? Did it burn any vacuum hoses? Remember there's one going from the firewall to the cannister purge solenoid.
where should I look for that?

thanks
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Get the code read.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

AFAIK, a blinking SES light doesn't set a code.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

* * * * * * * * * * * * * R O U N D - 2! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Starting with the basics, can you list the maintenance done itemizing all the parts replaced such as coils, wires, EGR valve, etc? It may help to isolate what may be questionable or if the electrical system suffered and damaged any electrical/electronic components.
...
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
* * * * * * * * * * * * * R O U N D - 2! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Starting with the basics, can you list the maintenance done itemizing all the parts replaced such as coils, wires, EGR valve, etc? It may help to isolate what may be questionable or if the electrical system suffered and damaged any electrical/electronic components.


The parts replaced:

`alternator
`wire harness connector to the alternator
`fusible link
`starter
`repaired the burnt wires leading to the sensor on the bottom of the power steering compartment


Hope this helps
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Ok, has the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECTS) been replaced? This is the first sensor that takes precedence over most other parts replaced due to the faulty initial manufacture and failure by cracking the resin-tipped probe leading to erratic engine running regardless of your car's desire to electrocute itself. The How-to Tips library's first two posts cover the replacement procedures with pictures including the two-wire connector that corrodes sometimes, requiring replacement.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:53 PM   #9
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Default Got my codes read

There are no visible vacuum hoses that are missing, scared, hurt, burned, etc... but then again... i'm not sure what hoses to be looking for... i centralized around the location ofthe fire and nothing out of the ordinary.

I've replaced the ECTS about 15,000 miles ago with a brass tipped one! The original nylon was all cracked..

I replaced spark plugs 30,000 miles ago with brass tipped ones that were recomended on this site.

I went to the store and bought a code reader...

With the key turned to the On position without the engine running...


I'm getting a P0300 (Random/Multiple cylinder misfire detected)

Along with the code... on the monitor screen I have these three Icons flashing

1. C (which stands for Catylist monitor according to the manual)
2. O (which stands for Oxygen sensor monitor...)
3. E (which stands for Exhaust Gas recurculation EGR monitor...)

(these codes were flashing and accoding to the manual, these are monitor icons. If the icon is flashing (such as these ones) that means that the vechicle supports the monitor but the monitor has not yet run its diagnostic)



I'm thinking these monitor icons came on because the car was not running and these systems could not be properly checked... but the computer stored the P0300 code.


I'll do some research on this site about the code and how to go about finding solutions, but please, if you have any insight on what I should be looking for since the car was on fire... please feel free to educate me!!!!


robert

Last edited by bskicrash1; 09-06-2007 at 08:07 PM. Reason: left out info
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Can't teach what you're learning before we have the chance to educate you. The general misfire condition, P0300, w/o pointing to any cylinder is defining the possibilities of the spark plugs, plug wires, and ignition coils needing some TLC. Check the plugs for wear, plug wires (at night) arcing across each other or to the engine block indicating the high voltage insulation breaking down requiring replacement, and removing the ignition coils for wirebrushing the exposed metal bases and bolts that provide ground for the ignition circuit. Scotch-Brite the coil towers and applying dielectric grease to metal subject to corrosion will prevent future corrosion. You'll find these instructions everywhere someone posted a P0300 code. If this is all that's causing the rough engine running either from the attempted engine immolation or just a normal occurrence then you'll most likely have a smooth running engine again.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Good news... and horrible news...


Good news... I believe I figured out the problem... after 30,000 miles... the spark plugs are shot... soo bad, that in the number 4 cylinder, part of the porceline on the plug was cracked off and sitting in the plug well... Soo, i'm thinking i'll replace plugs and wires and then i'll inspect the coil packs



Horrible News....

I didn't know the spark plug in cylinder number 4 was cracked... so when pulling the spark plug out... the broken piece of porceline fell into cylinder number 4...

So now, I can't do anything until that broken piece is out of the cylinder


do I have to take apart the whole engine, or can I take the valve cover off and then find an entrance to the cylinder???


man oh man... this is the fix from hell

Should I start a new thread under a differant title???

Robert

Last edited by bskicrash1; 09-07-2007 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Ewwww!!! That's not good. It can't have gone far. If you have someone else watching with a lot of light, you can slowly turn the crank to bring the piston closer to the spark plug hole for a look. If you see it, you should be able to rig something up to suck it out with a vacuum. Pulling the valve cover will get you a little closer to the hole but, I'd try everything else before resorting to that. I'd try everything I didn't try to avoid pulling the valve cover before I resorted to pulling the head.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

As BarnOwl posted, removing the valve cover only gets you closer to the hole, there aren't any other entrances. If a vacuum won't pull out the piece maybe a small parts tool pick-up thing-a-ma-jig might work or something sticky on the end of a stick probe that the broken piece can stick to. Turn the engine by hand on the crankshaft pulley to rotate the piston to the top so you can see the part better. Worse case scenario is removing the cylinder head, something to avoid until all possible ideas are exhausted.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Compressed air blasted in the hole deep....

I did crank mine with starter and popped out of the hole.... hehehe
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Got it out!!!!


I tried everything from duct tape on the end of wire... a grabber thinger pincher doo hicky... wet/dry vac with modified sucker... bent coat hanger to move the porcelein piece around... and finally what worked was a Rainbow household appliance (basically a vacuum that puts ordinary vacuums out of business)... it had an attachment that was able to get down into the cylinder... but I had to use the coat hanger to move the porcelein around to get it within the range of the sucker....

just when I thought about giving up.. I got it! I literally was "Exhausting" my options... trying to think of any creative thing that I could think of to get the object out of the cylinder... I did it all without unbolting anything from the engine (such as the valve cover gasket)


Wow... soo glad that I got it out!!! along with all the other crud that was in the cylinder...


I picked up new NGK plugs... (never again will I use autolite plugs...) and wires for the car...

I'm running an MMO soak on the car because its never had one... and 30,000 miles/3 years ago I didn't know enough to do an MMO soak...

Tomorrow i'll gap the plugs to .040 (despite the 96 sticker stating .060) and place the new wires into the car and see how it runs!

wow... this has been a long two weeks of having the saturn out of commission... it will live again!

Thanks for all you've done to help

Robert

couldn't have gotten here without you all
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Old 09-09-2007, 07:52 AM   #16
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Default extracted the piece then...

I did my first MMO soak. I let the car sit for 10 hours. All the MMO was still in each cylinder... I was expecting it all to leak into the crankcase. Well anyways... i smoked everything out... it literally smoked for over 30 minutes... and had no choice but to drive the car down the road for a moment... lets just say I had to pass the farmer herding his cows to the outer pasture and well... can cows cough??? lol


If there were any cars behind me, they would have had to pull over... i was leaving a trail like a jet leaves through the sky


I think I may have to grease or lubricate the moving pieces in the engine connected to the serpentine belt... the car makes the "i'm not lubricated" noise when the engine is running.



Robert
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

LOL U could use ur car for smokescreening for the military.... man that was ALOT of white clouds
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:21 PM   #18
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Dizzy something is terribly wrong

Before the MMO soak... the car consumed a quart of oil every 500 miles.... now it consumes a half quart of oil every 150 miles...


Did something go wrong???

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Old 09-17-2007, 10:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Service engine light blinking and rough running/loss of power to stall

Hmmm mine did alittle bit.... I would try rev in park to 3k and very little at a time pour mmo into the pcv hose. I did it in mine twin cam and it helps. I beat on the gas to rattle it loose. Boy it smokes.. now i dont use much oil any more. Other should chime in... Did my best
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