2002 Saturn SL1 Quill Seal Removal

[uccoskun]

Hello All:

I'm really happy that this forum is still alive. It shows that i'm not alone in this universe sticking with my saturn.

My clutch developed hot spots. As I work on my clutch. I notice fresh looking oil residue in the bell housing. I suspect my quill seal is leaking. I disassembly my transmission and remove the bell housing.

I read that removing the quill seal is risky as there were cases of cracking it.

Question 1.

Should I bang on it or press it out?

I plan to bang on it after heating the housing. Do you think it will work?

I appreciate if you have any experiences on how to do it or what not to do?

Regards
Ulas

[fetchitfido]

Has to be pressed out while being supported from the underside. Looks like failure to follow this requires a new transmission case afterward. FSM's I have are unclear about how much disassembly is required but based on the attached picture it's darn close to total.

[Waiex191]

Welcome to the forums! Assuming you mean the output shaft seal, where the output shaft engages the clutch splines, that has to be a lot easier to do it with the gearbox apart. Hunt4Steve has the best thread on this:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=190919

I didn't​ replace that seal but I had my tranny apart, as shown starting down on page 9 of my thread:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=230898&page=9

I found the job pretty easy.

[OldNuc]

Beware that any attempt to hillbilly that bearing-seal assembly out of there results in a broken bell housing. The seal is set with Loctite 620 which has a vicious grip and gentle application of heat to the surrounding aluminum is highly recommended, use a heat gun --not a torch. The new assembly also must be locked into place with the same loctite 620.

[uccoskun]

Originally Posted by fetchitfido

Has to be pressed out while being supported from the underside. Looks like failure to follow this requires a new transmission case afterward. FSM's I have are unclear about how much disassembly is required but based on the attached picture it's darn close to total.

Thank you for your reply.

I do not have those special tools but I plan to do something very close: I plan to use a bolt, a washer on inside, a big pipe maybe 6 inch long, and a washer and a nut on the other side to pull the bearing. I will apply some tension on the bearing and then gentle taps. But it looks like there is no tapping in the instruction.

I will to it in 2-3 weeks time. my transmission is in pieces in my garage but I will be on some long business trip to try this.

Thank you again.

[uccoskun]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

Beware that any attempt to hillbilly that bearing-seal assembly out of there results in a broken bell housing. The seal is set with Loctite 620 which has a vicious grip and gentle application of heat to the surrounding aluminum is highly recommended, use a heat gun --not a torch. The new assembly also must be locked into place with the same loctite 620.

Thank you for this input.

Actually I was planning to use a torch to heat up the case for a quick expansion but it looks like heat gun is a better option.

Should I replace the roll pin also? Everybody suggest to do it.

I will update it in 3 weeks.
Ulas

[billr]

The spring-pin in the differential? Yes, do that (maybe even put in two) if the trans/diff is all apart. Be sure to use the larger and stronger "spiral" type pin recommended.

I wouldn't be afraid to use a torch, just move it around. Aluminum "soaks up" heat pretty fast, a heat-gun is going to take quite a while on something as large as a bell-housing.

[OldNuc]

Originally Posted by uccoskun

Thank you for this input.

Actually I was planning to use a torch to heat up the case for a quick expansion but it looks like heat gun is a better option.

Should I replace the roll pin also? Everybody suggest to do it.

I will update it in 3 weeks.
Ulas

Yes, use the double roll pin that fits the stock hole unless you want to drive like a maniac. Double pinning is over kill and requires a good drill press as a minimum to get it done or a machine shop. Info for standard size should be in the hunt4steve thread or I can look it up for you.

There is no standard size of pipe that will work to pull that assembly out. Exhaust tubing is all that works. There is minimal surface to support the tube and it must just barely clear the flange on the bearing assembly. Loctite 620 has incredible hold on that bearing assembly and heat will tend to release that hold. Plan on heating the aluminum up to 180F or so so heat a large area so as to not stress crack it.

I have changed several of these and a torch is not what you want to use. A good quality heat gun does the job easily.

[uccoskun]

Hello All:

I have a question for experts below however i have a good news. Today I removed the quill seal by a home made tool.

1. a pipe nipple ( Pipe Nipple, 2-Inch X 4-Inch from ACE hardware)
2. plenty of washers
3. 3/8 x 7 inch bold and nut (total cost of parts is $21, i'm sure harbor freight beats me down)
4. Heat gun

I have heated the case with a heat gun till it is too hot to touch then have pressed the seal out with my home made press. It took 1 minute to press it with some cuts on my hand due to sharp corners.

I removed one of the transmission seals easily.

The second one has rings outside and inside of the seal. the new part does not look like original one. I'm ok to ignore the outside ring but now sure if I should ignore the inside one (26 in the image below) for thickness purposes. i try to create a link to show my picture. i hope it works;
www dot saturnfans dot com / photos / showphoto.php?photo=57371&cat=500

So should i put the ring 26 back in the transmision. There is no grove to put it in. It just stays there like a forgotten part.

PS: please remove spaces in my link and replace dots with dots.

Thanks.
Ulas

[ssicarman]

Put it back in place. It is a spacer ring for clearances.

The outer ring is a retainer for the seal.

[OldNuc]

Yes, and that outer snap ring is required. The gen-3 seal does not have the metal dust cover.

correct link: http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=57371&cat=500

[uccoskun]

Hello All:

I have pressed the quill seal out, but could not put it in. I have a mechanic press it in for me.

5 minutes ago, I have done assembling the transmission with loctite gasket 515 and torqued the bolts. Since the gasket is not solid, as i tighten the bolts, the gasket squezed out. I wonder if I should re-torque it after the gasket is cured.

Thank you for your help and guidance.

Ulas

[Waiex191]

I don't believe I re-torqued it. There is a 24 to 72 hour cure time.

[OldNuc]

With 515 run in the bolts lightly oiled with ATF and blotted drip free and torque. The 515 is NOT a gap filling product, torque to specified setting immediately.

[uccoskun]

Originally Posted by Waiex191

I don't believe I re-torqued it. There is a 24 to 72 hour cure time.

Hello, I donot know how cured it is between the pieces but, the part that is squeezed out as I tightened is still in liquid form after 7 days. Is it fair to assume i'm ready to install the transmission in the car now?

I will not torque again before installing.

Thanks.
Ulas

[Waiex191]

I don't remember mine being liquid, but it was not hardened either. You are probably OK.

[OldNuc]

Originally Posted by uccoskun

Hello, I donot know how cured it is between the pieces but, the part that is squeezed out as I tightened is still in liquid form after 7 days. Is it fair to assume i'm ready to install the transmission in the car now?

I will not torque again before installing.

Thanks.
Ulas

It will never cure in air. Wipe off the squeeze-out and press on. It is good to go.

[uccoskun]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

It will never cure in air. Wipe off the squeeze-out and press on. It is good to go.

Thank you.

[uccoskun]

HEllo All:


I would like to thank you all for all of your support. It would take much longer without your help.

Here is some updates about my clutch replacement.

Yesterday, I put everything together and today I have tested the car to return my rental parts.

During my repair, I changed the Quill seal, output shaft seals, and ball joints. I dont feel good about my left ball joint. Its shaft might be slightly thinner than it is supposed to be. I have tighten the castle nut way lower then the cotter pin hole.

Good thing: I have only one nut left, other wise everything is installed and running.

So far so good except sometimes I have difficulty putting it in the first gear. I hope it will go away. I can feel the difference between my old clutch and new one. I need to adjust to the new one as it engages very low, like last 1 inch or so.

Another observation is, it start to pull right heavily.

And I mixed green antifreeze and dex cool. I''m thinking if I should flush it sometime to put dex cool now.

Again, thank you all.
Ulas

[uccoskun]

Hello All:

1. I used the drain plug to remove the green antifreeze and put in the Dex cool. I could only put 3 Qt dex cool in.

2. Further tests showed that I could put the car in the first gear easier after the car warms up or I pump the clutch a couple of times. I think I'm changing the slave or the master cylinders after further tests.

Regards,
Ulas