1996 SL2 questions

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Link doesn't work............

You have to delete the " dot " part and replace with a period. Being new here I'm not able to post links, otherwise I wouldn't make it such a pain in the you-know-where. Sorry about that.

[fdryer]

Doesn't work............I'm not sure where you're going with this thread. Basically, the airbag's job is to protect the heads from becoming mush as it hits a window whether from a frontal or side crash. Whether or not any airbag was proven to blow out windows is not a priority unless you think otherwise. I doubt anyone here will say their windows blew out after airbag deployment and blame it on the airbag, I'm almost certain survivors of airbag deployment are more happy to have their faces intact compared to a window blowing out........I would.

[Jonasan308]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Doesn't work............I'm not sure where you're going with this thread. Basically, the airbag's job is to protect the heads from becoming mush as it hits a window whether from a frontal or side crash. Whether or not any airbag was proven to blow out windows is not a priority unless you think otherwise. I doubt anyone here will say their windows blew out after airbag deployment and blame it on the airbag, I'm almost certain survivors of airbag deployment are more happy to have their faces intact compared to a window blowing out........I would.

I think my head would have been cracked open like an egg had my airbag not went off....
I can also confirm that blown up windows did not happen when i crashed and my airbags went off. My hood was smushed up pretty good but my windshield, and all 4 side windows stayed intact.

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Doesn't work............I'm not sure where you're going with this thread. Basically, the airbag's job is to protect the heads from becoming mush as it hits a window whether from a frontal or side crash. Whether or not any airbag was proven to blow out windows is not a priority unless you think otherwise. I doubt anyone here will say their windows blew out after airbag deployment and blame it on the airbag, I'm almost certain survivors of airbag deployment are more happy to have their faces intact compared to a window blowing out........I would.

It works when I try it, after doing the rigamarole I described. Wish I had a few more posts under my belt, or I'd post a working link for you. Again, apologies for that.

I'm not really "going anywhere" with this thread, I just had a couple Saturn-specific questions, which you've been a big help in answering. This is a great resource. I know this is a bit beyond the normal scope of this forum, but it's all Saturn-specific, and I've been unable to get definitive answers to some of these questions elsewhere.

I'm not saying airbags "blow out" windows, and I'm certain everyone who ever had one save their life was thankful for it, I never suggested otherwise. The video I posted, or tried to rather, shows a Ford Taurus (I think) that a fire department is setting off the airbags on in some exercise. When they set it off, the deployment alone cracks the windshield. I was just curious if this was a common occurrence on '96 SL2s, because I've seen another video (that I also can't link to yet) that showed another '96 SL2 that had been in an accident, also in which the airbag deployed, that had an identical spider crack in the identical spot, so that lead me to believe that it may have been from that, and not from her head impacting the windshield as others have speculated. The girl in the accident showed no sign of head injury, when spoken with by a witness that was the last to see her.

[OldNuc]

Window damage from air bag deployment is different for every vintage of air bag and door/window structure design. The 96 vintage air bag has a much higher inflater burn rate than later versions. The S Series upper door is a bit flexible so window damage should be minor to nonexistent. if any damage the windshield is the highest probability.

froggydogg: interesting story.

[trottida]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Link doesn't work............

Here you go ....

https://youtu.be/lV6jkag4aM4

In that case the cracked windshield was caused by the piece of dash that flipped up when the passenger airbag deployed

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

if any damage the windshield is the highest probability.

froggydogg: interesting story.

I attached a side-by-side photo comparison I did of the Saturn in question (on the left, the crack has been colored to be more visible) against the SL2 in the other video, in which the car was also involved in a minor accident in which the airbag deployed (this one on the right).

Both cars sustained nearly identical cracks in nearly the exact same spot. The center of the spidercracks are both right along the line of the tinted strip at the top of the windshield, and appears that if you measured from the rear-view mirror to the crack, they're nearly identical. Not proof of anything, but it always made me think.

[fdryer]

Well, let's examine your video link first. The driver's side airbag goes off but doesn't show signs of the windshield cracking (no comments from anyone in the video). Its clearly seen as the airbag deploys from the steering wheel and nowhere near the windshield. The passenger side airbag deploys but something flips up to the windshield - part of the dashboard? At high speed, anything can act as a sharp object and damage the windshield. BTW, that car doesn't look like a Saturn (the Saturn logo isn't on the front but something else is, perhaps it's a Pontiac?).

The side by side pictures aren't clear. The right side appears to be a head implant. Perhaps the driver didn't wear his/her seat belt. I went to a car auction once at National car rental in NJ. I saw two head impressions in the windshield with airbags deployed. My guess is the two people in the front weren't wearing seat/lap belts so the crash allowed their bodies and heads to continue forward. While the car stopped, both people continued​ forward and planted their heads into the windshield. Some dried blood and hair were evidence. A distinct round impression were left in the windshield, from two heads. An airbag and will not prevent a head or body from trying to go thru a windshield. The lap/shoulder belt is part of body restraint systems to keep a body from leaving a vehicle in a crash. The airbags helps to act as the only head cushion.

[billr]

I advise anybody continuing with this thread to do the suggested search for "Maura Murray".

My perception is that anything that her Saturn did or experienced is irrelevant to her disappearance.

[OldNuc]

The airbag is angled up and trends to impact the windshield up at the top by design. If it is a high burn rate igniter and cold the windshield is likely to break. This is expected damage for a 96 Saturn crashed hard enough to bend the radiator support sufficiently to pout the fan into the radiator. That is not an insignificant impact.

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by billr

I advise anybody continuing with this thread to do the suggested search for "Maura Murray".

My perception is that anything that her Saturn did or experienced is irrelevant to her disappearance.

Yes, the case is fascinating. The podcast (which I appear on a couple episodes of) is riveting. Again, I can post links, but check out Missing Maura Murray on YouTube.

I do not think anything that happened to the vehicle resulted in her disappearance, it's just that many questions come back to the vehicle. Such as, would the fuel have been cut-off from the airtbags? The average non-mechanic doesn't know that, so I've been trying to get some definitive answers to stuff like that.

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

The airbag is angled up and trends to impact the windshield up at the top by design. If it is a high burn rate igniter and cold the windshield is likely to break. This is expected damage for a 96 Saturn crashed hard enough to bend the radiator support sufficiently to pout the fan into the radiator. That is not an insignificant impact.

Thank you. It was a February night, so it could certainly be classified as cold. It is my personal belief she did not impact the windshield, just the airbag. She had no signs of head injury, etc. She may have, but I'm not entirely convinced.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by froggydogg

The car was found abandoned, but locked, at the scene. She hasn't been seen or heard from in over 13 years.

The car was also alleged to have started right up in the garage it was towed to when her father looked it over.

Well, I wouldn't suspect foul play. A kidnapped person is not going to have pr take the time to lock all four doors, upon forcefully exiting the vehicle. And since the vehicle allegedly started, did they have a spare key to it? Saturn door locks only use tumbler 2-6, on the 7-cut, double-cut key.

They would have also needed to have the correct key, for the ignition(which uses all 7 of the tumblers) for getting past the Gen-I PassLock Theft Deterrent system.

It was primitive, in comparison to today's anti-theft systems, and you could easily bypass it by merely breaking the ignition switch, turning it to the "ON" position, amd jumping the starter motor.

But, that is a lot of work, considering where the starter is located on the Saturn 1.9L engine.

My guess is, this woman WANTED to disappear, for some reason.

A rapist, kidnapper, or killer is not going to care to lock the car doors. However, a typical vehicle owner is going to lock their car doors, habitually, which means often we do these things at a subconscious level.

The car crash was probably a smoke screen, to give her time to disappear pr throw some extra hurdles into the police investigation.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by froggydogg

Thank you. It was a February night, so it could certainly be classified as cold. It is my personal belief she did not impact the windshield, just the airbag. She had no signs of head injury, etc. She may have, but I'm not entirely convinced.

How tall was this woman? I am 6' 02".

I have been in two collisions, involving airbags.

My first was a 1992 Plymouth Acclaim, at about 50mph, and it was a head-on collision with a drunk driver. Due to how tall I am, my seat is usually all the way back in its tracks. My seat belt stopped me, from hitting the airbag, completely. I walked away from that crash, without a scratch.

The second collision, was a Cadillac Eldorado, broadside, at 40mph, in my 1992 Chevrolet Camaro RS. Once again, I never even hit my airbag, but I did get to watch it deploy. Seatbelt stopped me from ever touching it. I walked away, without a scratch.

It is possible for the airbags to deploy, and a driver will receive no injuries, provided they were wearing their seat belt. The air bag is a "Supplemental Restraint System", NOT the PRIMARY restraint system.

[Saturn Night]

Originally Posted by trottida

Here you go ....

https://youtu.be/lV6jkag4aM4

In that case the cracked windshield was caused by the piece of dash that flipped up when the passenger airbag deployed

Right, and where the Saturn steering column/passenger air bag are at with the 2nd Gen dash, would make it next to impossible for the bag to have damaged the windshield up in the blue tint area.

[Saturn Night]

http://www.universityofextrication.c...ld-spider-web/

As quoted: "A ‘spider web’ on the driver’s side of the windshield is different. It can only be caused by two things; 1) occupant contact as in this case, or 2) an unidentified flying object inside the vehicle striking the glass hard enough to crack it."

Were there any objects on the floor of the car, by the driver's seat, or a bunch of debris in the car, when it was found?

And if she made contact with the windshield, there would be blood traces or spatters. Any person, with severe head trauma from this type of injury is NOT going to make very far on foot, if they even live very long to begin with.

Most "spider-web" cracks, when a driver contacts the windshield, causes a broken neck. This usually results in instant death, or paralysis. Dead/Paralyzed people do not lock their doors, when leaving the scene of an accident.

[toggenburg]

Unfortunately, most likely, someone stopped, offered help via a ride, she locked her car and probably the worst nightmare one could imagine then happened after accepting ride from that stranger.

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by Saturn Night

And since the vehicle allegedly started, did they have a spare key to it?

When the father came to look at the car he retrieved a spare key that ws hidden in a magnetic box under the car. It started right up allegedly.

I don't want to bring discussion of theories onto the board, as I don't want to disrupt it, but some questions are specific to the car, and I thank everyone again for their help.

[billr]

Your specific question has been answered, am I correct?

[froggydogg]

Originally Posted by billr

Your specific question has been answered, am I correct?

The specific question I had about the fuel cut-off has indeed been answered. Which is, again, much appreciated.

The airbag one is still a little up in the air, to me anyway, but you guys were a big help.

I hope if I've got any other Saturn-specific questions I can pop back in and add them to this thread.