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Old 09-06-2009, 05:03 PM   #1
Tom92SCm
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default New brakes!

I've never really thought the factory VUE brakes were all that bad. I've had 65660 trouble free miles out of the factory brakes- and they still had some miles to go. I've always felt braking power was good and never had any fade issues (never drove it hard enough long enough to develop fade issues- I save that for vehicles better equipped for such driving). So today I decided to finally install my ATE Premium 1 rotors and EBC Greenstuff pads. I've had Greenstuffs on 2 other cars and have loved them- their braking power is awesome and it comes on immediately. EBC's claims of "low-dust" must be in comparison to a full carbon-carbon brake setup because I think these dust pretty bad- but not bad enough to keep me from buying 2 more sets over the years.

Anyway, here are the pics:
Old setup:



Rotor difference:

The slots on the ATE rotor are partially used for wear indicators- wear the rotor out so you can't see the slots, time to replace the rotors. The ATE rotor also has an anti corrosion coating (paint) on it. I didn't weigh them, but it felt like the ATE rotor weighed noticeably more, true the OEM rotor has 65000 miles on it, but it just didn't feel quite as substantail as the ATE rotor.

Pads:


New setup:


Notice I also did my best to remove the red caliper paint (I don't know what I was thinking painting the calipers red on my VUE......). I think I'm going to have to go back in and re-paint them with some silver.

So now for driving impressions: HOLY COW!!! There is a reason why these are my 3rd set of EBC Greens! The bite, even stone cold, is amazing! Like clearly now my tires are my limiting factor in braking. I was flirting with brake lock up with moderate pressure. I love these things! I only got about 30,000 miles out of my last set of EBC Greens, but they are well worth it.
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:42 PM   #2
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2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: New brakes!

Nice setup. I have no idea how many miles are on the pads and rotors on the new to me '04 Vue with 86k miles. This setup would be worth considering. Very nice pics!
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: New brakes!

Looks great!

I decided to upgrade my brakes also and don't want to play around with the OEM rotors...

I've ordered the same rotors I used on my SC from DRT-Sport. I did order the same pads that you used EBC Greenstuff pads. They are a quality product.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWNX:IT
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: New brakes!

Looks Great! I am thinking about getting a set of drilled and slotted rotors and having my calipers and brackets powdercoated like my vette.
silver with blue letters will be my choice since I have a blue vue. Here is a pic of the powercoat job from Mike the powdercoater. I paid $250 for the fronts and rears but since the vue only has fronts I am guessing $150.00 or less
Have a good one
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: New brakes!

I have the same rotors, but went with other pads, though I don't remember what now
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman591 View Post
Looks Great! I am thinking about getting a set of drilled and slotted rotors and having my calipers and brackets powdercoated like my vette.
silver with blue letters will be my choice since I have a blue vue. Here is a pic of the powercoat job from Mike the powdercoater. I paid $250 for the fronts and rears but since the vue only has fronts I am guessing $150.00 or less
Have a good one
Fireman591

Nice looking calipers! I originally wanted to paint my calipers red, but now I have after thoughts. Maybe black would be better, make them disappear...
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
Nice looking calipers! I originally wanted to paint my calipers red, but now I have after thoughts. Maybe black would be better, make them disappear...
I originally had my drums painted red too! YIKES. Seriously, what was I thinking?!?!?! Now the drums are painted black and look a million times better. For the calipers though, I'm thinking silver. My snowflake wheels (and my winter wheels) are too open to paint them black (IMO anyway) and I think it would look weird- they wouldn't really disappear since the silver of the disc would show on 3/4 of the disc but then there'd be a black hole in the other 1/4. Silver would at least give that factory look without any signs of time (rust and crud build up).

I plan on using this paint:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/acces...tail.jsp?ID=41
I've heard great things about it.

The powder coating would be sweet, but not for calipers for a vehicle like my VUE.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: New brakes!

Ive used EBC pads before and just so you know, they are really dusty at the beginning due to the "quick break in" material they use. Eventually, you will get no dust.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: New brakes!

My DRT rotors arrived today, I'll be putting them and the EBC pads on tomorrow.

I can't wait to see how well the EBC pads work. I already had good experiences with the DRT rotors...



I'm also changing my oil with the Eneso Synthetic 0w-20 and submitting a UOA on the Royal Purple 5w-20 oil to Blackstone Labs...
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
My DRT rotors arrived today, I'll be putting them and the EBC pads on tomorrow.

I can't wait to see how well the EBC pads work. I already had good experiences with the DRT rotors...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k3...ebayrotor2.jpg

I'm also changing my oil with the Eneso Synthetic 0w-20 and submitting a UOA on the Royal Purple 5w-20 oil to Blackstone Labs...
the drilled and slotted rotors are counterproductive for our cars. A good quality blank rotor will outperform a drilled and slotted one. the slots will cause premature wear by "shaving" at the pad and the slots make the rotors prone to cracking. I have cracked cheap rotors on my camaro and I currently run Brembo blanks and Hawk pads. Great setup. Our Saturns on the other hand, will rarely build up enough heat to justify the drills or the slots. That is why you only see them on very heavy cars (Benz S500) or super cars. And those are drilled differently than cheap rotors. Not saying the DRT rotors you have are cheap, but at this point, a blank one would be better since I doubt anyone drives these cars hard enough to warrant the need for heat escape. This is my long winded opinion from my experiences as well as my lurking on LS1 forums since I got my camaro in 2002. I tow with my Saturn and live in NYC so the car gets abused, but I don't think I will ever drive my camaro (which I plan on taking to the road course next year) or the Saturn to warrant the need for anything besides a high quality blank rotor.

That being said, let us know how the DRTs work out for you and next time consider a good ol fashioned high quality blank rotor
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: New brakes!

Having 4 years experience with DRT rotors on my SC I can say without any reservations that they were superior to any blank rotor I have ever used. The OEM blank rotors would always warp after 10k miles and after hard applications. I had no more problems with warped rotors after I installed the drilled/slotted rotors.

I want smooth reliable braking performance, and this rotor with premium pads like the EBC Greenstuff provide that. I can recommend this combination to every VUE owner that doesn't want to play with their brakes every couple years.

One note. The EBC pads don't have wear sensors on them.

The VUE being a FWD vehicle at least 80% of the work is being performed by the front brakes. The VUE's front brakes can use every performance edge you can give them.

I just installed them this morning and braking is absolutely smooth and silent. Both the rotors and pads recommend about 200 miles of mild braking. I'm not going to try any atomic death skids in the near future...

I'll post if anything changes, but for now IMO my front brake problems are a thing of the past.

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Old 09-17-2009, 10:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
Having 4 years experience with DRT rotors on my SC I can say without any reservations that they were superior to any blank rotor I have ever used. The OEM blank rotors would always warp after 10k miles and after hard applications. I had no more problems with warped rotors after I installed the drilled/slotted rotors.
I said a QUALITY blank rotor, not the OEM garbage. I'm not doubting the setup you are running, all I'm saying is the fact that they are drilled and slotted are counterproductive. You don't need them. An equally good quality rotor without the drills and slots would be better.

My brembo blanks don't warp, nor did my slotted brand-name rotors. It is all about the quality of the rotor. But putting holes in them and slots to scrape at the pad for no added benefit is counterproductive. That is all I'm saying.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikz28 View Post
I said a QUALITY blank rotor, not the OEM garbage. I'm not doubting the setup you are running, all I'm saying is the fact that they are drilled and slotted are counterproductive. You don't need them. An equally good quality rotor without the drills and slots would be better.

My brembo blanks don't warp, nor did my slotted brand-name rotors. It is all about the quality of the rotor. But putting holes in them and slots to scrape at the pad for no added benefit is counterproductive. That is all I'm saying.
Understood that Brembo, ATE, or Raybestos are better than the OEM quality rotors... I still rather have the performance edge of the slots and holes. The superior heat dissipation is a big plus, and the fact that they shouldn't warp...

A Quality blank rotor would still get hot under hard use. It may be more resistant to warping, but I'd rather the whole brake system run cooler. The pads probably would appreciate the cooler braking surface, and perform better...

DRT even uses Brembo rotors in some applications and machine the slots and holes in them. That would be a high quality rotor.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: New brakes!

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I can no longer resist.

Air is a crappy medium for heat transfer. Why do you think double and triple pane windows are better than single pane windows- they have AIR in between the panes. The air does not transfer the heat through the window all that well.

A brake rotor is basically nothing more than a heat sink. Heat sinks are more efficient when they have more mass to sink that heat into. By drilling holes and putting slots in them, you are removing mass from the rotor and therefore taking away it's ability to convert kinetic energy into thermal energy.

On my Saturn SC I would buy the cheap "white box" Chinese rotors. I think they were like $15/each or something. I never had a single problem with them- aggressive stop and go street driving, autoxing and several days worth of 20 minute lapping sessions on a road course paired with aggressive racing compound brake pads. Never once "warped" the rotors- and I'd bring the car back into the paddock after a track session with the rotors EXTREMELY hot. I never got any temp readings off of them, but the radiant heat coming off of them was pretty intense. But I also took care of them- every 15 or 20 minutes, I'd roll the car 1/2 tire rotation so the calipers could sink their heat into the other side of the rotor. I'd have to wait about an hour to change back to street pads and even then I'd have to wear gloves and I couldn't hold onto the caliper or rotor for too long or even the wheels.

So why do you see drilled/slotted rotors on Porsches, Mercedes and racecars? Well, Porsche claims that they use drilled rotors to retain good braking when the rotors are wet- like driving on the Autobahn in a rain storm. But the diameter of their rotors has also been increased to give them a bigger rotor without sacrificing the heat sink capabilities of the rotor. Probably the same thing for Mercedes as well. Racing teams use drilled/slotted rotors to reduce unsprung weight, but like Porsche, they have also increased the size of their rotors. Increasing the size of your rotor not only increases the rotor's thermal mass, but it also helps to give the brake system more torque when the brakes are applied.

Slots were originally introduced on rotors to help remove the out gassing organic based pads would exhibit when they got hot. Modern pads do not out gas. If you have a set of pads that out gas when they get hot, get new pads.

There's no denying that slotted/drilled rotors look good. Just please don't go on and on about all the "good" those slots/holes are doing because they aren't. The slots on the ATE rotors are actually rotor wear indicators.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: New brakes!

Here's what you're missing from that Tom. A heatsink only works if it has something to vent the heat out to, in most cases its air. That's why car audio amplifier and other heatsinks are designed with all their little valleys and such, it craetes more surface area touching the air to cool the heatsink down better. Drilling holes will do the same thing.

The downside is that due to the nature of a hot rotor, if its drilled and you apply a lot of force to it, it may crack. But that can happen with any rotor, its just more common on drilled ones. Blacnk rotors tend to warp instead if they get too hot (something which all crappy OEM Vue rotors end up doing).

Are drilled rotors partly for show? sure. But there's also a definite benefit to them in a warmer climate, as they allow more air to pass through the rotors, cooling it down faster than a blank rotor. Theoretically speaking, slots could do the same thing.

The water issue is good to know too, I never really thought about it, but drilled holes would help keep water off the rotor in rain. That's a good thing.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom92SCm View Post

Air is a crappy medium for heat transfer. Why do you think double and triple pane windows are better than single pane windows- they have AIR in between the panes. The air does not transfer the heat through the window all that well.
Thats not air, its inert gas, one example they use is krypton gas.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: New brakes!

Maybe I and many others on this forum are hard drivers because I've always had problems with the OEM rotors on my GM FWD cars. The only rotors that did not warp were the drilled slotted ones.

Unless EBC pads are different? All brakes suffer hot gas issues with hard applications. Hence the need for the holes and slots.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: New brakes!

EBC Brakes come in four flavors depending on your needs or desires.

Greenstuff
Since EBC Brakes launched its sport range in 1997 EBC Greenstuff has sold well over 3 million sets of performance automotive brakes all over the world and has become the number one selling EBC sport pad.

It is essential to note that EBC offer THREE RANGES of Greenstuff pads, engineered for each application

Greenstuff 2000 series for sport compact and hot hatches
Greenstuff 6000 series for entry level truck and SUV upgrade
Greenstuff 7000 low dust Truck and SUV Brakes


Redstuff
As EBC's flagship street brake pad material for prestige and faster cars above 200BHP the 09 version on EBC Redstuff sets new standards in brake performance. Redstuff has always been known for its low dust ability but the latest blend has greatly reduced the phenomenon of pad "Pick up" or disc scoring and reduced dust even further.

Yellowstuff
The most grippy pad in the EBC arsenal EBC Yellowstuff is a high friction pad for the driver who wants nothing but performance brakes.

Not only a high friction pad but very resistant to heat and loads of heavy braking means that yellowstuff has been used with great success in race cars and on high speed Police Vehicle brakes alike.


Ultimax
If you simply need a quality OEM replacement pad, look no further than Ultimax. Made in the UK Bristol EBC Brakes manufacturing plant Ultimax is a beautifully engineered brake compound that lasts well, produces minimal dust and is the perfect choice for the urban or daily driver. Why spend more if all you need is a quality replacement pad.

The Ultimax pad does include a small percentage of steel fibre to achieve its price point, far less content than our competition where steel fibre content can attain 50% volume and this optimum fibre blend is what makes Ultimax both popular and unique amongst brake blends .Once bedded in Ultimax will inspire confidence in any car light truck or SUV no matter how you drive.


http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/index.shtml
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: New brakes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
Maybe I and many others on this forum are hard drivers because I've always had problems with the OEM rotors on my GM FWD cars. The only rotors that did not warp were the drilled slotted ones.

Unless EBC pads are different? All brakes suffer hot gas issues with hard applications. Hence the need for the holes and slots.
Stay with what works I always say, but if you are feeling crazy, give a good quality blank rotor a try next time. Honestly, with my camaro, the slotted rotors I had ate up a set of pads in 20k miles. They didn't warp, they were excellent. The Brembos I have now didn't warp either, but I have 20k miles on them as well, and plenty of pad life left. I also cammed the motor and drive the car much harder now than I did before. Same Hawk pads too.

Being that I have cracked a rotor before, I am wary.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: New brakes!

I had cross drilled and slotted rotors on my 03 toyota matrix and used ebc redstuff pads and they rocked. The only suggestion I would make is to make sure that there is a brake place in your area that has the proper machine to resurface those types of rotors.

One time I was able to get them resurfaced(without the correct machine) and I had a pad start sticking because of it. When I tried to get it corrected with the correct machine, I couldn't find anyone that had it. I eventually had no choice but to go straight back to solid rotors.
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