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Old 05-11-2021, 12:50 PM   #1
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Default 07 ion starting problems

I have an 07 Saturn ion, 2.2 liter 5 speed with 117000 miles. It is a good running little car, except it doesnít like to start. I should say, that it always starts, even at -17 this past winter it started. You always have to crank for 6-10 seconds before it does start. I have a p0335 and p0336 code. I have replaced the crank position sensor and cam position sensor, and also the coolant sensor. I have inspected the plug and traced the wires from the crank sensor to the ecm. And also checked their continuity. Everything appears to be good.

I have also checked and cleaned all the grounds on the car. I have also changed the plugs, and checked the fuel pressure at the rail, which is in spec. Once it is started it runs and drives fine, it seems to start a little better after running it, but still has an extended crank to get started. I really have no idea, except maybe a bad ecm. Any thoughts or ideas would be much appreciated.
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Old 05-11-2021, 01:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

With continuity tests verifying crank sensor wiring intact, did the two error codes go away, are intermittent or always displayed on a reader?

The 2.2L engines seem to have a recurring issue with the ignition control module failing. It's the little finned aluminum box sitting to one side of the coil pack on the engine. A search within these forums with models having the 2.2L engine should show a pattern. This is only a guess but intermittent spark may be difficult to diagnose or troubleshoot. One method to test for spark is when the delayed starting (6-10 seconds is way too long a time) still occurs and removing ignition coil/icm assembly, removing all spark plugs, reassembling them together to lay out in the open over the engine, wiring reconnected and plug bases wired to engine ground. This allows you to observe for spark on plugs as someone turns the ignition switch to START. The fuel pump fuse should be pulled to prevent injectors from flooding the engine during spark tests.

EFI is well known for instant starting whether summer or winter without pressing the gas pedal. Your Ion should always startup within a few seconds when it's maintained for everyday driving.
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Old 05-11-2021, 01:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

Yes, the codes are still there. I will check out if there is spark and go from there. Thank you for the reply.
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Old 05-11-2021, 02:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
With continuity tests verifying crank sensor wiring intact, did the two error codes go away, are intermittent or always displayed on a reader?

The 2.2L engines seem to have a recurring issue with the ignition control module failing. It's the little finned aluminum box sitting to one side of the coil pack on the engine. A search within these forums with models having the 2.2L engine should show a pattern. This is only a guess but intermittent spark may be difficult to diagnose or troubleshoot. One method to test for spark is when the delayed starting (6-10 seconds is way too long a time) still occurs and removing ignition coil/icm assembly, removing all spark plugs, reassembling them together to lay out in the open over the engine, wiring reconnected and plug bases wired to engine ground. This allows you to observe for spark on plugs as someone turns the ignition switch to START. The fuel pump fuse should be pulled to prevent injectors from flooding the engine during spark tests.

EFI is well known for instant starting whether summer or winter without pressing the gas pedal. Your Ion should always startup within a few seconds when it's maintained for everyday driving.
The 2007 Ion 2.2L doesn't have a separate ignition module.

Do the codes return after erasing them?
Does the tachometer work when the engine is running?
Do you know if the engine was ever replaced?

The only thing I could suggest at this point is making sure the opening for the crankshaft position sensor is completely clean and the sensor is fully seated. If the sensor is too far from the reluctor wheel it won't function properly.

If the engine was replaced and they installed an older 2.2L but re-used the newer head/cams/intake/throttlebody, that could be the problem too. The 2007 2.2L Ions use a different crank position sensor with a 58X reluctor wheel. More specifically, the newer reluctor wheel uses 60 tooth/6 degree spacing but has 2 teeth removed to create a 12 degree gap to indicate TDC for cylinders 1 and 4. I've heard of people installing on older engine (with the older, incorrect 7X crankshaft relector wheel), but using the newer sensor and having similar symptoms, so this is why I'm bringing it up.
...
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2007 Chevy Equinox LT 201K miles
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 63K miles
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Old 05-11-2021, 02:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

The codes always return uptown starting the car the next time after they are cleared. I am pretty certain that it is the original motor, got it from a family member.
The tach functions as it should, once the car is started and running, it runs just fine.
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Old 05-11-2021, 03:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

ruley73, are you stating the '07 Ions don't use an ignition coil pack with an ignition control module? The coil pack/icm are on every 2.2L engine unless a major change occurred for '07s on.
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Old 05-11-2021, 05:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
ruley73, are you stating the '07 Ions don't use an ignition coil pack with an ignition control module? The coil pack/icm are on every 2.2L engine unless a major change occurred for '07s on.
Yes, that is exactly the case. There were many notable changes to the 2.2L in the 2007 Ion compared to older models. They use a different ECM, throttlebody, and crank position sensor & reluctor wheel. A camshaft position sensor was added. The 2007 uses four individual coils in lieu of the one-piece coil pack cartridge/assembly the older models used. Lastly, the 2007 Ions don't have an outboard ICM.

The OP is getting those codes because for whatever reason the ECM is seeing a bad crank signal. The ECM could be bad, but it's highly unlikely. They very rarely fail in the 2007 models.
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Old 05-11-2021, 05:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

The strange thing to me is it runs down the road fine once it is running. It is really frustrating that it takes a while to start.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

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Originally Posted by ruley73 View Post
Yes, that is exactly the case. There were many notable changes to the 2.2L in the 2007 Ion compared to older models. They use a different ECM, throttlebody, and crank position sensor & reluctor wheel. A camshaft position sensor was added. The 2007 uses four individual coils in lieu of the one-piece coil pack cartridge/assembly the older models used. Lastly, the 2007 Ions don't have an outboard ICM.

The OP is getting those codes because for whatever reason the ECM is seeing a bad crank signal. The ECM could be bad, but it's highly unlikely. They very rarely fail in the 2007 models.
Tks for the clarity. Rockauto shows both one piece coil pack among the individual ignition coils (coil over plug configuration). Although not likely for all four ign coils to fail during the delayed starting then suddenly operating without fail, it's worth testing them all at once even thought it will be more tedious. Ruling out intermittent spark on all four coils helps with troubleshooting. If all four coils fail then operate, this may point to the ecm.

Hypothetically, if this 6-10 delay during starting occurs consistently with the engine starting up as if nothing failed, this may be hunt for the needle in the haystack. The crank sensor may need to be monitored and one possible way is observing the tach during the 6-10 second starting delay. Visually testing for spark is second, as mentioned whether this engine uses older one piece coil pack and icm or individual coil over plug. Third would be monitoring fuel pressure during the 6-10 second delayed start for any momentary drop in pressure.

Unless I'm mistaken, the crank sensor generates precise timing signals the ecm needs to run. This pulse train allows the ecm to; turn on fuel pump, generate spark and pulse injectors. A dead crank sensor simply stops the ecm from operating the EFI system. Technically, an oscilloscope can display crank sensor, injector, and spark signals. It would be very helpful to use one in this problem especially with consistent 6-10 seconds of delayed starting before the engine fires up when virtually every EFI system is characterized as near instant starting.
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Old 05-12-2021, 03:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

Thanks for all the help. Itís going to be a couple days before I can check it over. Iíll post back and let you know what I find.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

Well, I finally got time to check out the car. I ran it up on ramps, pulled the starter and you were right. The crank sensor wasnít seated properly. I pulled it, cleaned the area up good and fully seated it the way it should be. The old girl starts like new. Thanks for all the suggestions and help!
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: 07 ion starting problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by What the View Post
Well, I finally got time to check out the car. I ran it up on ramps, pulled the starter and you were right. The crank sensor wasnít seated properly. I pulled it, cleaned the area up good and fully seated it the way it should be. The old girl starts like new. Thanks for all the suggestions and help!
Glad you got it fixed. Thanks for posting back with the solution!
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2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 183K miles *gone*
2007 Chevy Equinox LT 201K miles
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 63K miles
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