SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2014, 10:11 AM   #1
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

My 2000 Saturn SL just yesterday started misbehaving. The service engine soon light has been on for a while but yesterday while driving home I noticed it had more "go" while I was driving. At red lights I really had to press the brake to keep it from hitting the car in front of me. It accelerates by itself and if I give it gas it makes a almost grinding or gurgling noise (I'm bad with car noises).

Also, when I start it up the RPMs go up past 4k and stay there. Not in the red but very high and loud and don't drop.

What's wrong with my car?
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-05-2014, 11:25 AM   #2
lamping.ap
Senior Member
lamping.ap will become famous soon enoughlamping.ap will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,001
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

A quick guess would be throttle position sensor (TPS)... but I would go get the Service Engine Soon light read first. If you already know what the code(s) is/are, I recommend posting the info here so we're not merely guessing. You can do a search here for TPS and see other people's symptoms...
lamping.ap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 12:57 PM   #3
alordofchaos
Super Member
alordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud of
 
alordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central MI
Posts: 13,223
 

2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

^ ^ ^ yeah, codes are step 1

Another guess, intake manifold gasket
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115925
...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles
alordofchaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 02:07 PM   #4
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamping.ap View Post
A quick guess would be throttle position sensor (TPS)... but I would go get the Service Engine Soon light read first. If you already know what the code(s) is/are, I recommend posting the info here so we're not merely guessing. You can do a search here for TPS and see other people's symptoms...
From reading the symptoms of a faulty TPS (throttle position sensor) it seems like that explains my issues exactly. Is there anyway I can verify that's the issue before I go looking for the $50 part and someone to help switch mine out for the replacement?
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 02:54 PM   #5
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,314
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Read the codes Luke; read the codes.

The TPS is a dealer part. About $80 as I recall. The aftermarket are garbage.

-Robert
RobertGary1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 03:09 PM   #6
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

TPS sensor problems wont give a 4000 RPM idle, Also If shutting the car down and re-starting the idle still remains high the TPS is not the problem, Most likely the intake gasket has failed at Cylinder 1 causing a huge vacumm leak.
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #7
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,314
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Good point. Sounds like it's time for a spray bottle of soapy water.
RobertGary1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 10:50 AM   #8
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL19302 View Post
TPS sensor problems wont give a 4000 RPM idle, Also If shutting the car down and re-starting the idle still remains high the TPS is not the problem, Most likely the intake gasket has failed at Cylinder 1 causing a huge vacumm leak.
How might I verify this? And is it super expensive to repair?
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 11:12 AM   #9
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,054
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Slide something rigid, like a block of wood, across the TB opening while the engine is running. When the TB opening is completely covered the engine should die due to no air getting in. If it does die, then the problem is either the throttle blades not closing properly or the IAC circuit is not closing. If the engine doesn't die, maybe just slows down a bit, then it is a vacuum leak. From what you are saying it would be a big leak, so try blocking off the PVC line and brake booster line, at the intake manifold for both. If blocking those and the TB don't make the engine die, then it pretty much has to be a manifold or TB gasket leak or cracked manifold; time to remove parts for visual inspection.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 11:54 AM   #10
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Hmm, no one's mentioned the definitive test for an intake manifold gasket leak - Start the engine and spray brake cleaner around the joint between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, particularly around the #1 runner. If the racing idle changes, that indicates a gasket failure. Very common on your generation / model of car; evidently the gasket was improperly installed by a robot on (pun slightly inteneded) bender.
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 09:02 PM   #11
Ubie
Junior Member
Ubie is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 34

1999 SL2
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

It's probably the TPS as stated above. But... when I had this exact problem it was my ECTS sensor. It was reading stone cold causing an idle spike.
Ubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 10:22 PM   #12
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Get a can of carb cleaner and spray right where the intake bolts to the cylinder head just below the power steering pump near cylinder 1 intake runner, If the idle changes you have a leak.
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 11:46 AM   #13
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Slide something rigid, like a block of wood, across the TB opening while the engine is running. When the TB opening is completely covered the engine should die due to no air getting in. If it does die, then the problem is either the throttle blades not closing properly or the IAC circuit is not closing. If the engine doesn't die, maybe just slows down a bit, then it is a vacuum leak. From what you are saying it would be a big leak, so try blocking off the PVC line and brake booster line, at the intake manifold for both. If blocking those and the TB don't make the engine die, then it pretty much has to be a manifold or TB gasket leak or cracked manifold; time to remove parts for visual inspection.
Had a coworker use his hand (and towels, couldn't find wood) and when he covered the TB opening absolutely nothing happened to the RPMs. They stayed at 3500. I even put it in drive, the dropped, but covering the opening didn't do a single thing.

I had him start it again and I sprayed carb cleaner over everything near throttle body and by/under power steering pump, and on the other side. And all under intake manifold. Didn't notice any change in RPMs.

Like I said earlier, when I start it (in park and neutral) the RPMs go to 3500 and stay, but when I put it in park it wants to go-go-go. I have to hold the brake quite hard. And it gets up to 45mph and stays there without me ever having to touch the gas. When I DO give it gas it knocks and makes a gurgling noise. If the AC is on at a red light it will often just die.

Last edited by allstar21369; 09-08-2014 at 11:59 AM.
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 12:04 PM   #14
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar21369 View Post
when I put it in park it wants to go-go-go.
I meant when I put it in DRIVE.
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 12:32 PM   #15
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,891
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Very high rpm at idle usually means a large vacuum leak - one large vacuum port is used to power the brake vacuum power assist unit with its own hose connected to the back of the intake manifold. A 5/8" to 3/4" diameter hose may be damaged, loose or fallen off its fitting in the intake manifold. This hose connects a vacuum supply from engine to power brake unit behind the brake master cylinder, the large round black canister. Examine the intake manifold and locate the vacuum port, hose and follow it to the power brake unit.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 12:54 PM   #16
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Very high rpm at idle usually means a large vacuum leak - one large vacuum port is used to power the brake vacuum power assist unit with its own hose connected to the back of the intake manifold. A 5/8" to 3/4" diameter hose may be damaged, loose or fallen off its fitting in the intake manifold. This hose connects a vacuum supply from engine to power brake unit behind the brake master cylinder, the large round black canister. Examine the intake manifold and locate the vacuum port, hose and follow it to the power brake unit.
Waiting on coworker to help me jack up the car. The "brake vacuum power assist unit" being what's broken seems to make sense because the brake is actually quite hard to press since last week (when the car broke). Does that all make sense? Also, where exactly is the line that most likely came off? I know nothing about cars and Google was no help.
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 12:56 PM   #17
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,054
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Yep, if blocking the TB opening completely did nothing to lower engine speed, we can forget about a dirty TB, bad TPS, bad ECT sensor,or bad IAC. Look for (and try plugging) those two large hoses connected to the intake, plugging/capping the port right at the intake manifold. If neither of those two hoses are the problem, take off the EGR valve and block those two ports. After that, it is time to take the intake manifold off. By the way, if the leak had been "through the TB", that guy's hand would have been painfully sucked against the TB inlet. Use a piece of wood next time...
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #18
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,891
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar21369 View Post
Waiting on coworker to help me jack up the car. The "brake vacuum power assist unit" being what's broken seems to make sense because the brake is actually quite hard to press since last week (when the car broke). Does that all make sense? Also, where exactly is the line that most likely came off? I know nothing about cars and Google was no help.
Examine the intake manifold, the long 'log' with the throttle body attached to it on the driver's side. Along the back side of the intake manifold is one vacuum port to attach a hose feeding a source of vacuum to the power assist brake unit. Dry rot or maintenance sometimes causes this hose to have a large vacuum leak. Power assisted braking is lost since vacuum is lost that powers the large brake unit. Your description is a giveaway to this damaged or disconnected hose.

Google pictures of power brake units, hose and intake manifold fitting.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 03:54 PM   #19
madpogue
Super Member
madpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud ofmadpogue has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 25,715
 

1996 SW2
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Do you know where the brake master cylinder is (where you check the brake fluid level)? The booster is the thing behind it, that the MC is bolted to. Big round thing on the firewall, driver's side. Toward the passenger side, there's a port on it, with a little plastic check valve, and the vacuum hose should be attached to it. If the hose isn't attached, you've located the problem. If it is, follow that hose, and you'll probably find that it's detached at the other end.
madpogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 05:36 PM   #20
allstar21369
Junior Member
allstar21369 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
 
Default Re: Very high RPM at startup - doesn't drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Do you know where the brake master cylinder is (where you check the brake fluid level)? The booster is the thing behind it, that the MC is bolted to. Big round thing on the firewall, driver's side. Toward the passenger side, there's a port on it, with a little plastic check valve, and the vacuum hose should be attached to it. If the hose isn't attached, you've located the problem. If it is, follow that hose, and you'll probably find that it's detached at the other end.
I located most of what you referenced... here's an image -> i.imgur.com/KH9hLAR.jpg

That second image with the arrow pointing to it, is that the brake vacuum line?
allstar21369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High RPM's during startup? robert16 S-Series General 3 03-08-2012 03:33 AM
High RPM at startup Rob1956 Vue General 4 02-04-2012 05:31 PM
Very High Pitch Noise only at high speed, and doesn't depend on engine load StandsOnToes S-Series Tech 2 01-06-2010 07:00 PM
High Idle Immediately After Startup micah_sl2 S-Series Tech 3 08-07-2007 04:47 PM
Revs high on startup Wremote Ion Tech 5 11-02-2005 08:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:47 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.