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Old 04-22-2017, 02:12 PM   #1
Waiex191
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Default 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Hi all,
My Saturn is officially off the road for rebuild. We pulled it into the hangar this am. My airplane project is on pause.
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Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

"Gentlemen, we can rebuild Waiex191's '99SL2. We have the technology. ...Better than it was before. Better...stronger...faster."

Subscribing...now.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Excellent reference - was a huge fan of the 6 million dollar man as a kid. I have the series on DVD as a gift but haven't watched it yet. I don't watch much TV!

We visited the machine shop last Wednesday. I asked for a recommendation from the local gearhead. He had a guy who had been working on his car, bike, and airplane engines since they were kids.

Besides rebuilding the engine, we have a few other tasks in mind: replace subframe, redo headliner, replace panel lights, redo all the hard and soft brake lines, new alternator, diff pin beefup, new clutch, and so on. Maybe we will even replace the coolant sensor.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

We are not as fast as some folks. After an hour we have the hood off, air box out, battery and tray removed. A major goal is to have my son do the work. We busted one bolt for the battery tray.
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Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

We only had an hour between Adam's last driver's Ed lesson and our scout meeting. But, an hour now is an hour you don't have to spend later. Adam did his first serpentine belt removal. One of the key things in teaching kids is to let them struggle a bit but help them to succeed. I didn't touch anything but talked him through it. Then we got the car on stands.
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Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Ibfo you will need.
DOHC (1995)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1159762...L6UoammvrKEsAE

Clean the head bolt holes with a fiber brush and blow out with compressed air. Clean the head and block mating surfaces with acetone. Set your new gasket on the block in the correct position so the oil port is not blocked. Carefully set the head on the gasket and do not scratch the head or block. If the bolts seem to be oily when you pull them out of the box wipe them off with a clean dry rag and don't leave any lint on them. Now screw all the NEW head bolts in by hand and torque them in order and stages to the 48ft-lb final value.

DOHC head torquing procedure

Initial dry bolt torque in sequence to 48ft-lb following the torquing pattern in stages to 20ft-lb, 30ft-lb, and final 48ft-lb. This establishes the proper clamp load on the gasket.

This is followed by removal in about 1/4 turn in sequence until loose.

Bolts washers, threads and bolt heads are oiled with clean engine oil and reinstalled finger tight.

Torqued in sequence to 22 ft-lb then 37ft-lb and then additional 90 degree turn.

The 90 degrees is important so do not guess at the 90 degrees. You can eyeball it and use a 1/2 drive breaker bar and make the 90 degree turn in a single smooth motion.

If this is not followed the new gasket will end up leaking.

Torquing sequence
intake side
8-4-1-5-9
7-3-2-6-10
exhaust side


Head replacement and chain remove-replace
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=168496

Complete overhaul
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170045 ehunter
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=145250 cboss

To prime the oil system on a Saturn engine after a complete overhaul, head replacement, timing chain replacement or long term storage perform the following steps.
-Fill crankcase with 4 1/2 quarts of fresh new 5w-30 oil if this is the initial fill following a rebuild otherwise use 4 quarts of oil. Use a decent quality name brand oil.
-Fill a squirt pistol type oiler with the same oil.
-Squirt oil into the square port on the right side of the filter base do this several times until you can not get more oil to stay in it. This will take 4 to 6 ounces of oil.
-Fill the new oil filter a bit more than 1/2 full and screw it in place.
-Remove the PCM B fuse from the UHJB (under hood fuse box). This will prevent the fuel pump and injectors from operating while priming.
-Remove spark plugs.
-Place 1 squirt of 5w-30 oil in each cylinder.
-Turn key to crank and crank engine with the starter until the oil pressure light goes out. This may take several 20-30 second runs of the starter.
-Release key when the oil pressure light goes off.
-Turn key to crank and crank engine again until oil pressure light goes out. Repeat 2 times.
-Replace spark plugs.
-Replace PCM B fuse.
-Prime fuel system by turning key to on but not crank and wait until pump stops, turn key to off, wait 30 seconds. Repeat 2 times.
-Start engine.
*********************************
After start.
-If engine running as expected continue to let it sit and idle while you inspect for leaks and other off normal behavior.
-Do not touch the gas!
-Allow to sit and idle until the fan cycles on and off twice.
-Shutdown engine and allow a 30 minute oil drain down time
-Replace the oil and oil filter with a WIX 51516XP (do not substitute) filter and a name brand high quality synthetic blend oil. Valvoline works or Casterol.
-Drive car conservatively, no steady RPM operation and hold max top gear RPM to ~3000 RPM
-Closely monitor oil level by parking in the exact same spot and checking level after a 6 hour minimum drain down time. Maintain oil level at the Full mark or up to the lower edge of the "U" in full.
-Once it has been established that oil consumption is zero change oil and filter.
-At this point using a high end 100% PAO synthetic oil is the best option. Amsoil 5w-30 Signature Series or Amsoil
Series 3000 SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is recommended along with the WIX 51516XP filter. Do not run these filters more than 7500 miles but oil change can be done by oil sample results and no more than 700 operating hours. Buy an hour meter and hook it up.

This all will appear a bit disjointed but take your time and do it right as replacement OEM specific fasteners are not available and all of the printed references have critical errors so check against the standard torque tables. You should be fine coming from aircraft as all the same rules apply.
The Haynes manual is a highly defective reference.

Take pictures and tag and bag everything!!!
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Thanks OldNuc! I was hoping you would ride along with us!
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

The only major difference between the 99m and the 98 and older engines is the head. One of the PITA jobs is to clean out the hydraulic lifters.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

I've started rereading ehunter's thread. Realized I need a picture of the machine shop. Carl is semi-retired and only works on stuff he wants to. He has a bunch of antique cars outside and more flathead motors inside than I have ever seen in one place. The only pic I've got so far is of his big dog.

Adam has done his first Saturn timelapse. More to come I am sure. https://youtu.be/t_UnL5uM2zE
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Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Keep the updates coming!

Below is a link to my '99 SL2 rebuild thread if interested:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=202133
...
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'99 SL2, 126K, Auto, Silver (SOLD 149K)
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

You've got an airplane hangar to work in, and a machine shop? I'm jealous

If you are looking at the cboss and hunt4steve rebuild threads, that pretty much covers everything.

Only additional thing I can think of that might not be mentioned in those threads - Kids these days have lots of plug in electronics. Consider taking the cigarette lighter off its current circuit (through the infamous F5) and separate it. adventureoflink wrote up a how to, in the how to library

a couple of coats of high temp POR15 on the muffler and hanger, along with a couple of coats of high temp paint, should keep your son from having to replace them for a long time
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Thanks for the input guys. The machine shop isn't mine! Just a local guy - Sterling Engines. Bachands, how did it work out to just replace the rings and hone? May not be applicable to me since I have 204K, and it looks like you sold yours at 149K. I see you are in SE WI. I'm in north central Illinois.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

You will be much happier to bore the block 1.00mm and buying a properly designed piston set. Silv-O-Lite recommended. Low tension low emission rings are not real tolerant of any oversize and the practical limit is 3-4 thousands and no taper or out of round. Undersized pistons and just drilling holes is more of a hack that works but is not an optimal solution.

Silv-O-Lite: https://www.uempistons.com/

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Old 04-24-2017, 08:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

This is a little bit of a brain dump on my part, some of this you may know already, and some of them are good tactics to know for a rebuild. I'm just stubbornly hanging onto my Saturns, so I rebuild rather than buy something different.
My time is limited, but I'll check in every other day.

Silv-o-lites are the way to go, I have 75K after the rebuild on my 98SW and it's running great. At over 200K I would definitely bore the block and follow the hone process.

Cboss and Hunt4steve are the epic rebuild threads.

Get a notebook so you can make notes, and take plenty of pictures as it is coming apart.

Get a supply of baggies to put the small parts and bolts in, and label them. If a bolt is a different size, label that too, in a separate little bag, with what hole it goes into.

For the engine wiring harness, label the connectors for the sensors prior to removing the harness. The twist-em labels from the bulk section of the grocery store work great, and don't fall off once twisted on.

I'm assuming you have a supply of aerokroil

Oxy-acetylene will help loosen some of the stuck bolts, especially exhaust manifold studs and anything on the brakes.

If you are looking for a rust free cradle, I know of a junkyard outside Atlanta GA if you are up for the 17 hour (one-way) road trip.

For the headliner, you may want to wait until the engine is done, so you are only doing one project at a time.

Milwaukee makes a great 18v 1/2" drive impact wrench.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Thx for the brain dump macbox! I don't have any aerokroil. I borrowed some kroil from a buddy years ago when doing the exhaust on an S15, and it was like magic. Same stuff?

I do have oxy-acetylene. I also have a rust free subframe tucked away in the hangar. The local junkyard imports them from South Carolina so no need to drive to Georgia. Also, my 15 year old has more time than I. I've asked him to watch the videos for headliner removal and cluster removal and go for it. Developing independence is important.

My airplane kit had zillions of parts in various size ziplocks. I've saved​ many of them. We are ready to bag and tag.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Aerokroil is just the same Kroil in a squirt can.
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Thanks for the input guys. The machine shop isn't mine! Just a local guy - Sterling Engines. Bachands, how did it work out to just replace the rings and hone? May not be applicable to me since I have 204K, and it looks like you sold yours at 149K. I see you are in SE WI. I'm in north central Illinois.
It worked out very well. I had great compression numbers after the rebuild and no oil burning for a few months. It did, however, begin to burn oil after about 6 months. It was more than expected at about 1 qt/1500 miles. But the engine ran fantastic and had plenty of power. By the time I sold it, I had all the leaks taken car of and many new components (suspension, exhaust, etc). Ran like a champ!

But as you stated, at 204K you're going to want to have the block and crank checked and bored/milled/cut as needed. And if you have all that space to work in, take the damn engine out of there! Working in that tight space like i did is difficult. I only did that because I had to, not by choice.

The Sealed Power rings i used worked wonderfully. And FelPro gaskets all the way.

Keep taking pics!
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by macbox View Post
For the headliner, you may want to wait until the engine is done, so you are only doing one project at a time.
This is great advice. I replaced my headliner LONG after I rebuilt the engine. It isn't all that difficult, but it definitely requires patience to ensure it is done right. Save it for another time. Focus on the engine.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
The local junkyard imports them from South Carolina so no need to drive to Georgia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbox
If you are looking for a rust free cradle, I know of a junkyard outside Atlanta GA if you are up for the 17 hour (one-way) road trip.
Info, please, for the junkyards? For future reference as one can never have too many rust-free cradles. I have a rust-free one tucked away, too, just can't decide which car to use it on plus I have zero free time.

A decent thread on protecting subframes for your son to read
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=173654
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: 99 SL2 rebuild thread

Junction auto parts in Poplar Grove. They sell on eBay. Not too far from Minneapolis. I am sometimes up near Rochester as my in-laws live there.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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