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Old 12-12-2014, 04:01 AM   #1
spacetrace33
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Default Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Ok, so I recently got a hold of a 2000 sohc with auto and going to switch to manual trans. I have read Numerous articles about the swap and odd and end things, but still leaves a few unanswered questions.

Question #1: Is there a way to tell what year car the transmission is from just by looking at it or some sort of numbers on it? I looked and couldn't find a VIN number. Not that it really matters, just curious.

Ok, I guess now, I just wanna recap as far as wiring issues are concerned.

I Understand how to set up the reverse light switch and neutral safety switch. I plan on keeping same instrument cluster and pcm. From my understanding, that's going to get rid of any kind of rev limiter.

Question #2: Is that correct? If not, is it going to propose a problem? And if so, what's the fix?

Question #3: By keeping the same instrument cluster and pcm, will I run into any problems with tach or any gauges not working? If so, what's the fix?

I read a post where somebody did a swap and his tach didn't work, but his question was never answered. I guess I'm just trying to learn or find out if I have all the facts before I "dig in". I like to know what to expect before doing such a big job, even if it's small details. Speaking of small details......

Question #4: Where can I find instructions on how to get the upshift light to work? If it involves switching out the instrument cluster just for that reason, then I'm not worried about it. Not that I'll need it, but it's one of those small details that would be good to know how to do it.

That's all for now. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Ok, so I wanted to recap and just say that as far as computer goes....SES light will be on, but I don't mind since my state doesn't seem to either. I'm really surprised that this post has had over 80 views already and not a single reply. Oh well, I'd rather get the right answers the first time.

I have thought of another question in the mean time...

Is there anything I should check before installing this transmission, say like any gaskets or anything like that. I've already read up on how to check the diff pin, but is there anything else that I might be missing?
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacetrace33 View Post
Ok, so I recently got a hold of a 2000 sohc with auto and going to switch to manual trans. I have read Numerous articles about the swap and odd and end things, but still leaves a few unanswered questions.

Question #1: Is there a way to tell what year car the transmission is from just by looking at it or some sort of numbers on it? I looked and couldn't find a VIN number. Not that it really matters, just curious.
There is both a VIN stub number and a trans number on the transmission.
Use these for trans.
http://i.imgur.com/dwb6a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg
How to check the trans model number. There is no tag. Look right between the top 2 transmission to engine mounting bolts. Clean the area with a rag and brake cleaner, do not use any abrasive! Take a large tip sharpie pen and rub it in the center of the case between those bolts. You will see some 1/2" high dot matrix letters and numbers. They are quite hard to read. You are interested in the first 4 positions.The 1st position is the year code and may be either a number or letter, the 2nd position is the letter M, the 3rd position is the letter P, and the 4th position is a number - either 2 or 3 for manual or 6 or 7 for automatic. You must have the correct MP number for the application or it will not work in the car. These letters/numbers are centered between those top 2 mounting bolts and they are really are there.

Ok, I guess now, I just wanna recap as far as wiring issues are concerned.

I Understand how to set up the reverse light switch and neutral safety switch. I plan on keeping same instrument cluster and pcm. From my understanding, that's going to get rid of any kind of rev limiter.
You are not keeping the same PCM with a gen-3

Question #2: Is that correct? If not, is it going to propose a problem? And if so, what's the fix?

Question #3: By keeping the same instrument cluster and pcm, will I run into any problems with tach or any gauges not working? If so, what's the fix?

I read a post where somebody did a swap and his tach didn't work, but his question was never answered. I guess I'm just trying to learn or find out if I have all the facts before I "dig in". I like to know what to expect before doing such a big job, even if it's small details. Speaking of small details......

Question #4: Where can I find instructions on how to get the upshift light to work? If it involves switching out the instrument cluster just for that reason, then I'm not worried about it. Not that I'll need it, but it's one of those small details that would be good to know how to do it.

That's all for now. Thanks in advance.
This swap is going to cost a lot of ream money to make it function correctly, if it ever does. You will be far ahead to take the 2000 to the detail shop and drop 150.00 to get it all cleaned up and sell it on Craigslist and then go buy what you want.

You have to convert a SOHC 2000 model year car to a manual transmission 2000 model year car and the build date is going to be one of the considerations. I suspect someone has done a weekend swap and is happy with it but some people are very easy to satisfy.
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Hey, thanks for responding quickly OldNuc.

I now have new questions....from what you have said, keeping the PCM isn't going to happen. What problems does it cause by keeping it? I have a feeling these gen 3 s have a ton more to them than gen 2.

Why must I have correct MP number? I have a feeling that you're saying to 100% completely do it right. I though all manual transmissions were swap capable? Part numbers for flywheel/pressure plate/throw out bearing/clutch are all the same between all the years and between dohc and sohc.

I must add that this car currently has an auto trans that pretty much leaks fluid faster than it can be poured once it's started. That's the reason for the trans swap. I'd rather have a stick anyways.

Pretty much I just need to know if it will work. The swap that is. And I'm really curious as to what's going to happen if the PCM doesn't get swapped out.

In my Gen2, I have auto PCM with manual trans and everything works great. Aside from small detail stuff like SES lights. Then again, this is a gen3, completely different stuff from the sounds of it.

And worse case scenario, I'll have a lot more back up parts for the race cars.

What do you think?
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Old 12-12-2014, 04:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacetrace33 View Post
Hey, thanks for responding quickly OldNuc.

I now have new questions....from what you have said, keeping the PCM isn't going to happen. What problems does it cause by keeping it? I have a feeling these gen 3 s have a ton more to them than gen 2.

Why must I have correct MP number? I have a feeling that you're saying to 100% completely do it right. I though all manual transmissions were swap capable? Part numbers for flywheel/pressure plate/throw out bearing/clutch are all the same between all the years and between dohc and sohc.
You have to use a compatible SOHC manual trans or you are going to set DTCs and cruise will not function.

I must add that this car currently has an auto trans that pretty much leaks fluid faster than it can be poured once it's started. That's the reason for the trans swap. I'd rather have a stick anyways.
Replace the axle seals then and if it shifts smoothly sell it. Will cost you about 15.00 for both seals delivered.

Pretty much I just need to know if it will work. The swap that is. And I'm really curious as to what's going to happen if the PCM doesn't get swapped out.
It will run like crap.

In my Gen2, I have auto PCM with manual trans and everything works great. Aside from small detail stuff like SES lights. Then again, this is a gen3, completely different stuff from the sounds of it.
Yes, it is.

And worse case scenario, I'll have a lot more back up parts for the race cars.

What do you think?
It is not worth the hassle.
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

I'm not so sure it would be all that bad if there's a pull-a-part nearby. I would replace the PCM. You don't have to pull the instrument cluster apart on a 2000 to do that. It's under the hood behind the battery.

I'd get a tranny from the same engine. I'm not sure about bolt up unless it's a gen 3 but, 2001 and 2002 would probably work. Replace the axle seals while it's out. They are a real pain even with the tranny out. I'd hate to try to do them with it in.

The PCM needs to be the same year and engine. Manual tranny. If you have cruise control, A/C, secondary air injection you need one from a car that's similarly equipped.

Just curious, what's the aversion to pulling apart the instrument cluster? I'm not a big fan of twisting myself into a pretzel to do interior work either but, it's not that bad on these cars.
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Last edited by BarnOwl; 12-13-2014 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

I'm going to be back there, behind instrument cluster anyways to install the clutch pedal. I did check that trans I have, it's a 5MP2, so that's good considering the engine. I'd love to go with OldNuc's advice and find a decent 2nd gen DOHC, only problem is that they aren't that cheap around here. I've done with seals with tranny in the car, and they're actually not that bad once you do it once to get a feel and find the right tools. First time was hell though. I'm thinking it's gonna be harder with trans outside of car because there's nothing holding it down. I'm gonna find out though. I'm pretty sure that it's gonna bolt up from what been reading here....Which this website is awesome. It has helped me learn a lot about these cars, and they are fairly easy to work on. Not looking forward to those torque converter bolts though.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

The torque converter bolts aren't a problem. Just stick a socket on the bolt in the crankshaft pulley to hold things. They shouldn't be that tight.
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Old 03-14-2015, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default Auto 2 Manual 00 SC1

Ok, so I wanted to raise this post up from the dead.....seeing how I am now finally getting around to do all of this work. And maybe even some advice here and there.

The engine turned over, no problems (after charging the battery). It actually sounded alright.....for a SOHC. But I can tell the DOHC is far better. A couple of things that I did notice was the temp gauge barely moved, and fan never did come on. I am going to replace ETC for sure. But I am wondering, do these engines take longer than the DOHC to warm up? Kinda wish I had a thermometer to see actual temp of coolant.

The disassembly is going rather fast, "just" have to unbolt exhaust and a couple of misc. to remove subframe.

Drained trans fluid and not only slivers, but chunks of metal came out with it. Definately not a good sign.

The P O had that orange dex cool in it....got that drained, a long with a lot of dirt and what not. No oil in it, and no white under oil fill cap, so good there, I do believe.

Passenger spindle needs replaced....got bent where tie rod hooks to it.

The exhaust bolts look and feel terrible. They're probably gonna take some heat without breaking one off.

So if anybody has any words of wisdom or random fact, something interesting, I'd like to read about it.

Also, can anybody verify the removal of center console? Does the shifter need to be all the way down or some where specific? Otherwise, I'm looking at taking seats out to get a little more room, somewhere....wouldn't hurt to do a good cleaning also.
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Old 03-14-2015, 04:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Auto to Manual Swap Questions

Pull the console out, remove 3 nuts on the auto shifter mount and put the 5spd shifter in; if the cables are in run & connect them then put the console back in as you're done with that area (otherwise leave it out until the cables are swapped over).

I found that the exhaust stud & nuts weld themselves together turning it into a non-standard bolt. Comes out of the head just fine that way.

I hope you have either a smallish air wrench or a ratcheting hand wrench, otherwise it'll take an extra 10minutes to get the mounting bolts for the brake & clutch pedals in & out, you can only move the nut about a flat at a time and its a PITA resetting a non-ratcheting wrench that many times.

Unless you plan on attempting to resell any of the automatic specific bits, don't worry about their condition coming out. Break 'em into little bitty piece's if you have to

If it's cold out the SOHC will almost never get to normal operating temp at idle and even driving down the road people have issues keeping the heat on.

Trim the PCM connector to fit the manual PCM and this picture is all you need to do for wiring mods.

Instrument cluster? WTH does that have to do with a transmission swap?

MP2+SOHC= Cruise Control works
MP2+DOHC= Cruise Control busted, but cruise RPM is around 1000rpm lower in 5th

I've done 4 auto->manual swaps. First was because a friend and I broke the automatic, 2nd-4th was because it was faster to swap a 5spd in then figure out why yet another S-Series automatic reveled it's true colors as a giant paperweight. Granted they were all on '93-'97's so there could be something specific to the annoying 3rd gens that I'll never know about...
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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Old 03-28-2015, 11:07 PM   #11
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Default Auto 2 Manual, what's going on now?

Ok, the conversion is completed, and I couldn't be happier with just how well it went.

I still have a big problem. Let me first start by saying that the car itself runs very smoothly.

However, something in the doors click like crazy, and randomly. The only thing I've tried so far is to unplug the center control wires, and the power lock wire in rear door, but it's still making this insane clicking noise, randomly, in random doors. It's driving me crazy!! Help!

Another thing too, is that the dome light doesn't work, and the bulb is new. I did check ALL fuses prior to putting this machine back together....there were some bad ones, but I cannot recall which ones in particular that were bad.
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