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Old 12-13-2019, 08:47 PM   #41
billr
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Question all you want, but I know it happened; and I was there (with my compression gauge).
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:52 AM   #42
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

I've had it happen on my 97 several times and I believe it was the valves not closing all the way. It would resolve itself by letting it sit a while before trying again. I have not experienced it in the last couple of years though and had forgotten about it until I read this thread.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:31 AM   #43
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Question all you want, but I know it happened; and I was there (with my compression gauge).
I assumed you had been told that by a shop. That's the first I've ever heard of that happening. It would have to be valves as mentioned by Greg1. Maybe a heat issue with machining by GM a little on the tight side, that eventually wore to spec?
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

My best guess is that there was an orifice in the head that plugged and prevented lifters from bleeding down properly. They only had it in their shop for about 1-1/2 hr, but I suppose they could have pulled the VC and fussed in there in that much time.
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Old 06-12-2021, 05:23 AM   #45
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Back agian with the same exact issue.

This poor car. got it when it was sitting in some guys yard, rotting, up in michigan I needed a a car that would get me down to texas with a bunch of stuff and it did.

Then all the previous stuff happened and i got TWO other cars, both of them got wrecked. Then this saturn was revived with a new ICM.

been using it as a backup car because both rear trailing arm mounts have rusted away. I rebuilt one of them myself as i am a welder. I recently got a plasma cutter and i started to take out the back seat and all the plastic trim and whatnot from the back end.

Low and behold in the process of removing the seat i accidentally slice through orange and pink wires going to a security module made in singapore? attached near the back of the car on the passenger side on the side of where the back seat used to be. of course the car didn't run. I found the wires and twisted them together and it started up. I started to take it to a scrapyard with some equipment to cut some metal off a junker to weld on and well. the car died halfway there and smoke came out from under the steering wheel. black wire to ignition switch was toasted.

I replaced the ignition switch, checked for damaged wires other than the dinger wire.. didn't find any.

Found out that i had also damaged more wires welding/rebuilding the trailing arm mount years ago and the wires leading to the security module were burnt to a crisp in one spot, but it had been running like that until those last two wires got sliced. Then the ignition switch fried, and even after splicing all the wires together {only those two orange and pink wires were ever cut at one time the rest were spliced one at a time so not to confuse anything.}

Now the car, starts runs for 5-10 minutes, then stalls, sputters and then dies. won't start for 30 minutes. temp gauge read under 1/4th. When the car dies there is no spark when i try to restart. starter runs, engine turns, no spark.

Always starts up when cold now, but can't get me to work, as it dies after 5 minutes or when the temp goes over 1/4th.

Oh my second car is now also a saturn, but a 2007 saturn ion. Forced into getting it after totaling my 2007 pontiac g6 on vacation in Michigan.

Can a short in the security module make the ignition switch go bad? Can a bad ignition switch make the ICM go bad? Agian? a faulty ignition switch, security module, CPS, EGR valve and ICM from what I have been reading can cause all those problems. Not sure where to start. I'm leaning toward the ICM once more.
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:38 AM   #46
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

The crank position sensor loves to fail when hot, usually after about 10min of run time. Could be the ICM again, especially if it's a crap aftermarket unit, but the symptoms are more CPS.

The security module on the passenger rear wheel well is just the RKE module. Might not hurt to just replace it, when the car's were newer it had a low failure rate but things age and start to fail...and it sounds like it's been a bit abused with a welder. Pretty sure they're the same '96-'99 per door count other than '96 has no alarm functionality.

I didn't read the whole thread, it sounds like the interior is taken apart. It might be worth it to do the same to a junkyard car to get an intact, unmolested, wire harness. Especially if you're in an area that isn't Michigan and likely isn't rotted to useless bits.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:55 PM   #47
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

>The crank position sensor loves to fail when hot, usually after about 10min of run time.

^ +1
.....................


> get an intact, unmolested, wire harness.

^ +1

.....................................
.....................................

If using Electric welder, suggest:

1.) unplug PCM, Accelerometer, instrument cluster, IgnCtlMod
2.) connect battery cables Together after remove from battery.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:11 PM   #48
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Thank you for the help. I got a duralast CPS and that seems to have fixed my issue. I hate when something breaks when you're working on something else and it's not even in the slightest bit related. especially when they can cause the same issues kinda

Yeah I will probably unplug everything i can electrical wise before i start to fix the rear end.

I just cleaned the pcv valve and changed the oil. shoved in a mix of cheap oil, marvel mystery oil and seafoam, kinda raced it around the block a bit, drained that out and put new in. The oil in the 97' usually was not changed, it got low and i added more. So i figured it was do for a gentle cleaning. I even rinsed with seafoam and marvel mystery oil and turned the engine over with no spark.( unplugged all the spark plugs) to try and rinse off moving parts.

I got a spare key made and it works better than the original, go figure.

My keyfob though... it's so worn out.. i can't read the buttons, one of them ripped out, and the case won't stay together anymore. all the ones in the auto parts store cut off at the year 1998 and not saturn either.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:14 PM   #49
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

OH can i just remove my fuses and relays to disconnect everything rather than dealing with those stupid clips?

I can just snap some pictures and remove them all and I'm good to weld?
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Old 10-06-2021, 04:19 PM   #50
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Devil Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Well after a few months the ignition system started to act up agian.

At first it seemed like just a weak battery, not wanting to turn over. It would start up and run just fine.

It dropped two cylinders randomly, the ones on the ends of the block have no spark.

I changed out the ignition control module with no change. I swapped the position of the coils on the module with no change. only the left coil makes a spark, not the right one, and it's not the ignition control module or a coil pack.
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Old 10-06-2021, 08:50 PM   #51
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

"It dropped two cylinders randomly, the ones on the ends of the block have no spark.

I changed out the ignition control module with no change. I swapped the position of the coils on the module with no change. only the left coil makes a spark, not the right one, and it's not the ignition control module or a coil pack."


Those are conflicting statements. You say the "end cylinders" (1 and 4) have no spark, but the left coil that fires 1 and 4 has spark. Or do you consider the "left" side to be the driver's side? Usually, the engine components are referenced as you look in at the engine, looking toward the rear of the car. I'm not saying that is the correct or sensible convention, just that it is most common here. I tend to use "driver-side" and "passenger-side" to avoid confusion...
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Old 10-06-2021, 09:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

with hood open and facing the engine, the car will only run with the left coil on cylinders 2 and 3. the two in the middle. if i change wires to cylinders 1 and 4, the ones on either end, the engine will try to catch, almost stop as if stuck, then fire a few times but it won't start. This is the condition that it broke down to. Meaning i don't have wires swapped but they are in the correct position.

i swapped out a new ICM and swapped ignition coils. Both coils will run the engine or make spark on the left ignition coil, and both are dead on the right.

So whatever my problem is, it's before the ICM, meaning the ignition control module is not getting the proper signal to create spark on two cylinders.

Either that or both my ignition control modules have failed in exactly the same manner and it does not matter if they are hot or cold. >.>
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Old 10-06-2021, 09:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

if i give spark to 1 and 4 the car will not run it only runs with spark to 2 and 3.

Swapping coils or the module didn't restore spark or change anything.
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Old 10-07-2021, 12:22 AM   #54
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

This is an old and rambling thread; even got hijacked by another user for a while. I suggest you start a new thread with details of how the present problem started and progressed.

Based on your recent feeling that the battery may have been bad because cranking was poor, coupled with some of the weird stuff earlier in this saga, I'm thinking there may be a ground issue behind all this.

Do you have a simple (non dial-back) timing light? It sounds like your plug wires are, and have not been for a while, connected in the normal configuration. We need to determine what is going on there.
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:54 AM   #55
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

I'm not sure where to post this issue, i could not find a good place before.

I don't have one no. I think i will be needing to get a tester of some kind. my grandfather had a gun style one with clips. I just can't afford much.

I wonder if a CFL bulb and some alligator clips would work. to test for spark. If you mean to test for ground.. why not use a multi meter? i have a good digital one and cheap analog one.
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:19 AM   #56
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.



This is how I have it currently wired. The vehicle will run, but only on 2 and 3 though so it's the LEFT ignition coil that does not have spark. i can bare handed take the wires off the vehicle while it's running and touch the metal knobs, dead.
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Old 10-08-2021, 09:09 AM   #57
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.



From:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=230968

That agrees with your picture. I went with NGK coils on my '98 and like them.
...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:35 PM   #58
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Please confirm that you made an error in reply #50, where you said "...only the left coil makes a spark, not the right one..."

Now you are saying "...so it's the LEFT ignition coil that does not have spark..." Do you see the contradiction there? It makes more sense that the left coil is dead, but I want to be sure before we wander in the weeds any further.

Has this car been troubled ever since you got it, or did the ignition issues at the beginning, in 2019, begin after some period of OK running? In 2019 it seems it kind of "self healed" if I read the old parts of this thread correctly. How many miles on it since then and now?

Post a picture of the ICM with the harness connected. Clean off the harness wires enough that we can see colors to verify and discuss them.
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:38 PM   #59
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attloyden View Post
Well after a few months the ignition system started to act up agian.

At first it seemed like just a weak battery, not wanting to turn over. It would start up and run just fine.

It dropped two cylinders randomly, the ones on the ends of the block have no spark.

I changed out the ignition control module with no change. I swapped the position of the coils on the module with no change. only the left coil makes a spark, not the right one, and it's not the ignition control module or a coil pack.
This seems to point to a faulty pcm. A new crank sensor didn't change anything.
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:44 PM   #60
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Default Re: 1997 SW2 Crank but no start, stuck on wiring.

Or faulty wiring between the PCM and ICM.
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