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Old 01-29-2019, 01:41 PM   #1
MaggieMay007
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1999 SW2
Dizzy 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

My 1st thread.
I've been without my car & trying to self diagnose this issue for almost 3 weeks
PLEASE forgive me in advance if I've over look a thread that touches on all my issue completely.
I've read a lot of threads, watched recommend videos plus some.
Okay here I go
I purchased knowing about the O2 sensor. Car lot told me they would replace it but have yet to do so.
September 2018 I replaced the starter
October 2018 Failed emissions
P0133: O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (B1S1)
P0401: Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient
MIL light remaining on with egngine running.
I obviously procrastinated.
It seemed to run fine. Occasionally it would turn over & not start after turning the key once, starting on second try. 3 weeks ago turns over no start.
This is what I've done to date
I cleaned EGR valve & replaced gasket. LReplaced air filter. Listens for the fuel pump to prime, it did. Starting with gas pedal to the floor. Ovserverd a visual & smell of gas when I pulled wire off spark plugs and they showed no signs of corrosion. Took boots off 4&1 observed no spark between tower heads. Replaced CPS, learned the hard way to unhooked the battery. Took off & cleaned coils, bolts, contacts and ECM. Charged battery. Still crank no start
Decided to buy a code reader, tried it, too late.
Emission Related Engine DTCs
No Powertrain, DCTs or Freeze Frame Data is previously stored in-vehicle computer but still showed codes
P0401: Secondary Air Injector System,
P0137: H2O S Curcuit Low Voltage B1S2,
P0573: Break Switch Curcuit 1 High Voltage
I took all boots off tower heads, observed no spark between the four of them.
Last night I bought a multimeter but don't know where to start.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:16 PM   #2
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2001 SL1
Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieMay007 View Post
I took all boots off tower heads, observed no spark between the four of them.
Do you mean took all the spark plug boots off the coil towers and observed no spark from the coils? That would definitely create a no start situation.

Did you check if the ECTS had been changed to a brass tipped ECTS by the prior owner and that the connector is not fouled? This sensor is the root of a lot of problems and typically creates hard starts and lots of carbon build up within the engine exhaust components. EGR, exhaust manifold, air injection (if equipped), Primary and secondary O2 sensor, catalytic converter, etc...

There were only a small number of 99 models that were equipped with Secondary Air Injection and most were shipped to California; do you have an air injection pump located in the front right of the engine bay near the A/C compressor (see photo below)? The detail of the second P0401 code seems to indicate so. Was that definition from the scanner or on-line?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Air injection pump.JPG (63.9 KB, 13 views)
...
1999 SL2 MT (299,400 km @ 11/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Last edited by trottida; 01-29-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:19 PM   #3
MaggieMay007
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1999 SW2
Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

I will check
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:22 PM   #4
MaggieMay007
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Sorry, definition was from scanner
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieMay007 View Post
I will check
What are you going to check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieMay007 View Post
Sorry, definition was from scanner
Oh, I see. I was thinking from the internet as it appears earlier in your first post as an EGR reference. I'm speculating the first P0401 was given to you from the shop that was doing the test.
...
1999 SL2 MT (299,400 km @ 11/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Old 01-29-2019, 05:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Just for clarification, P0401 is EGR related. The secondary air injection code is P0410.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by BV22 View Post
Just for clarification, P0401 is EGR related. The secondary air injection code is P0410.
Oh I see. One of the codes given must be transposed as they both say P0401.
...
1999 SL2 MT (299,400 km @ 11/2021)
2012 Ford Focus SEL HB MT
2011 Suburban LT

Past Saturns
2001 SL1 MT (438,500 km 11y)
1993 SW2 AT (10y)
2001 LW200 MT (3.5y)
1992 SL2 MT (5y)

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Old 01-29-2019, 09:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

As a first time Saturn owner, new member and new to using an OBD II reader, it might help to disregard error codes as some or all may be false codes. As trottida mentioned, remove and examine the coolant senor below the egr valve. A small two wire connector sends temperature info to the pcm. All original sensors failed, sending corrupt signals with most sending info the pcm interprets as a frozen engine. The pcm responds with extra rich fuel mixtures all the time, flooding on sone startups with difficult starting the rest of the time. See below.

If you tried a spark test with plug wires removed from the two ignition coils with someone starting while you observed for spark jumping across both coil towers resulting in zero spark, there are only a few reasons for this; crank sensor failure, wiring damage to the ignition control module where the two coils mount onto, both coils failed, blown ignition fuse. Did you check for blown fuses? The icm may be the failure. Junk yard ignition parts are less costly and reliable compared to expensive new parts.

The icm failure is a good possibility for lack of spark to all plugs. This presumes injectors are operating. To be sure injectora are operating, remove spark plugs - after several failed starting attempts with the engine turning over but not firing up, all spark plugs should be wet and smell of fuel. A visual and smell test can help check injector operation and overall pcm operation that runs the EFI system.
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

You claim you have replaced the CKP(Crankshaft Position Sensor), and still have a "no spark" condition.

This is indicative of a failed ICM, a blown fuse, or a failed PCM.

Check the fuses in the UHJB, and you likely need a new ignition control module.

www.car-part.com can be used to source a used coil pack assembly.
...
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:25 PM   #10
MaggieMay007
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1999 SW2
Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

First I want to apologize for not up dating.
Second I want to thank everyone that replied..
Thank you!
It was the ICM ignition control module but the intake was also very plugged.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

Good that the issues were rectified.

I suspect that it was the Exhaust manifold which was all clogged up.

Happy Motoring !
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Old 10-21-2021, 09:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1999 SW2 Won't START 75,867 miles

On second thought, I suppose the In Man may have been clogged.

My experience, and other forum comments, suggest that clogging
of the SAIS and Ex Man runner/channel (and mating ports in head),
are a frequent failure mode, sometimes causing damage to the
pre-cat (mounted on the Ex Man)....

I suppose the In Man might clog IF the EGR was chronically messing up.
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