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Old 05-06-2009, 01:17 PM   #1
droveavolvoonce
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Default Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Hi!

I uploaded a photo of my headliner work-in-progress. Click on my photos link to see the pic.

Now that I have the liner out and stripped of the fabric and foam, I'm going to check out the local Michael's and Jo-Ann. I'm a little puzzled, though.

I called the Jo-Ann store a week or so ago, and the person on the phone said they don't carry "foam-backed fabric". I've seen others make reference to them carrying headliner material. Was she just in error?

Also, I've got a can of 3M "Hi-Strength 90 Spray Adhesive" here already...will this stuff be up to the task or do I need something stronger? I've seen people mention the 3M Trim or Foam Adhesives, as well as other options.

In addition, there are several places where the smooth outermost layer of the fiberglass is torn away, exposing the rough fibers underneath...is this going to be a problem when I'm applying the adhesive and fabric?

Regards,
daVo
...
1995 SC2 Plum 4-Disc 5SPD $1495 2.17.10 (111K to present)
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

At Jo Ann Fabrics, the material is called "Headliner Fabric", and yes; they do carry it, I bought some just last year. Sounds like the clerk you got that day was "off" on the job, or didn't understand specifically what you were looking for. Sometimes you just have to see what they have.

Like you, I have read alot about redoing the Headliner, and I am currently in the process of "Restoring" my Homecoming Edition Saturn..as a result I have a bad headliner myself. I think that the 3M stuff that you have will probably be fine to use, but you will need to make sure you pull the fabric tight when you put the new stuff on so that you avoid air pockets, otherwise you will be doing it a 2nd time.
...
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

If this is what you boughts, then its the proper adhesive.



Also dont try to do the entire headlire at once. Spray the adhesive and apply the fabric in 12" increments.
...
Mike

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Old 05-06-2009, 10:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

JoAnn's Fabrics does carry headliner material, but it may not be in stock at that store. Took about 6 months before I found it. Only adhesive I could find was 3M Super Trim Adhesive, so far, so good. Important to clean all residue from headliner with a soft brush and vaccuum. Work in stages, we used a small paint roller to level the fabric especially where it's molded for the sunvisors.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

I was able to get two yards of dark grey headliner material with dark foam backing...hoping to be able to get down to this project in the next week.

Will I need another can of the adhesive? This headliner isn't *that* big...it's only about 50" by 54" or so.

Regards,
daVo

P.S. The employee who cut the material for me...she didn't seem to realize that they even carried this stuff.
...
1995 SC2 Plum 4-Disc 5SPD $1495 2.17.10 (111K to present)
1993 SC2 Silver 4-Disc Auto $1500 8.2007 to 2.2010 (195K-ish JY R.I.P. 5/7/10)
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Good luck with the head liner. It seems that Saturn dropped the quality in this area. I can't even find a decent replacment at a junk yard!
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigereye30 View Post
Good luck with the head liner. It seems that Saturn dropped the quality in this area. I can't even find a decent replacment at a junk yard!

Redoing it with the Jo-Ann Fabric & Adhesive is better than trying to find a used one in a JY....

for the amount that you would get charged from a JY...you can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost. Seriously.
...
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97SW2 266K Miles
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigereye30 View Post
Good luck with the head liner. It seems that Saturn dropped the quality in this area. I can't even find a decent replacment at a junk yard!
Come out to California. I was the the junkyard after work and saw about 20 of them. None sagging or coming apart.
...
Mike

-1991 Turbo SL2.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:56 PM   #9
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Default UPDATE: Redoing headliner!

Hi, folks!

Check out the updated pics in my photos. I hope to put this back in tomorrow before work.

I actually ended up ripping off two of the velcro areas mounted to the headliner backing when I removed the headliner. I replaced these with sticky back velcro which I also stapled back.

I don't know if I ended up laying it on a bit thick, but I went through two full cans of the 3M Hi Strength 90 spray adhesive. Actually I will have to use a tiny bit from a third can to finish the folded back sections around the dome light.

The actual process wasn't too difficult. I hope it all stays together this time for as long as I keep the vehicle. I'm going to try to re-do the visors as well; that should be interesting. I'll put up more pics as I go.

Regards,
daVo

P.S. I'm also looking into getting a seat cover (or two)...the driver's side is getting a bit worn around the edges.
...
1995 SC2 Plum 4-Disc 5SPD $1495 2.17.10 (111K to present)
1993 SC2 Silver 4-Disc Auto $1500 8.2007 to 2.2010 (195K-ish JY R.I.P. 5/7/10)
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

how did you get the headliner out? through the trunk with the seats down??
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sc2dohc94 View Post
how did you get the headliner out? through the trunk with the seats down??
Take either the seats out or recline them completely, and remove the headliner thru one of the rear doors.
...
Bryan

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99 SL

94SL2 260K Miles
1/15

97SW2 266K Miles
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Always
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Org. Engine/Auto Trans
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

no rear doors on the sc2, but I figured it out, thanks!
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

I'm about to start this project myself...so far:

1) Don't use the 90 3M stuff, I've read people saying 98...some have used 96. I'm buying some other stuff from the fabric vendor specifically for high temp use. Problem is that glues MELT up there. People have reported new headliner material detaching and drooping down. Use the right glue 8)

2) I found a good source for headliner material and carpet... They have all the right colors!!! http://autoupholsterysupply.com/headliner.html and cheap too, like $12.00/yard (you need 2 yards), 15$ to ship, and 10$ for the high temp spray on glue. quite the deal.

3) Here is the definative posts as far as I have found:
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclean92124 View Post
1) Don't use the 90 3M stuff, I've read people saying 98...some have used 96. I'm buying some other stuff from the fabric vendor specifically for high temp use. Problem is that glues MELT up there. People have reported new headliner material detaching and drooping down. Use the right glue 8)
The 3M 90 stuff is fine. The glue will not melt. The interior of our cars here get pretty hot. Several 100+ days a year. Did my 1993 SW2 seven years ago. All is good. Did my 1995 SL2, with dark green paint five years ago, its holding up fine. Did my 1994 SL2 about the same time. Still all good. And I did my 1996 SC2 a year ago.

All of there were done because of stains or damage. Not one had sagging problems which is usually caused by humidity.

I think the reason people have had problems when redoing their headliners is because they dont use enough glue and/or dont follow proper procedure. They usually try to make one can last the entire project and dont have enough coverage on both the headliner backing or the fabric.
...
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
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The 3M 90 stuff is fine. The glue will not melt. The interior of our cars here get pretty hot. Several 100+ days a year. Did my 1993 SW2 seven years ago. All is good. Did my 1995 SL2, with dark green paint five years ago, its holding up fine. Did my 1994 SL2 about the same time. Still all good. And I did my 1996 SC2 a year ago.

All of there were done because of stains or damage. Not one had sagging problems which is usually caused by humidity.

I think the reason people have had problems when redoing their headliners is because they dont use enough glue and/or dont follow proper procedure. They usually try to make one can last the entire project and dont have enough coverage on both the headliner backing or the fabric.
You are lucky then. I need to do the headliner in my SC2 and I am kind of nervous because I have had nothing but bad experiences with my 90' Buick Park Avenue.

I bought the fabric and glue from Jo-Ann Fabric and made sure that the glue was "headliner" glue and made sure to scrub all the old foam off the fiberglass headliner board. I ended up with some glue left over and guess what the next day it sagged. I was pissed because it takes 2 yards of fabric and the headliner is a PITA to remove without bending (damn old lady steering wheel is so massive it gets in the way)

So with another $40 to "burn through" I went and bought more fabric but made sure to buy "Permatex" headliner adhesive and used the whole can this time (along with following the instructions to a "T"). Well it held up fine but the first day it got hot, a few small spots started sagging again (Royal Blue interior/exterior SUCKS!!!) So now I have to push it up every once and a while and luckily it is only in the back.

I really hope the one in my Saturn is easier, after all the headliner is like 1/3 the size of the one in my Buick, lol
...
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.FUBAR View Post
You are lucky then. I need to do the headliner in my SC2 and I am kind of nervous because I have had nothing but bad experiences with my 90' Buick Park Avenue.

I bought the fabric and glue from Jo-Ann Fabric and made sure that the glue was "headliner" glue and made sure to scrub all the old foam off the fiberglass headliner board. I ended up with some glue left over and guess what the next day it sagged. I was pissed because it takes 2 yards of fabric and the headliner is a PITA to remove without bending (damn old lady steering wheel is so massive it gets in the way)

So with another $40 to "burn through" I went and bought more fabric but made sure to buy "Permatex" headliner adhesive and used the whole can this time (along with following the instructions to a "T"). Well it held up fine but the first day it got hot, a few small spots started sagging again (Royal Blue interior/exterior SUCKS!!!) So now I have to push it up every once and a while and luckily it is only in the back.

I really hope the one in my Saturn is easier, after all the headliner is like 1/3 the size of the one in my Buick, lol
Sounds like you may of not used enough adhesive. A headliner that size should of taken at least two cans.

Did you shoot the entire headliner at once, then lay on the fabric? If you did, that may of also been another issue.
...
Mike

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Old 07-09-2009, 10:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Saturn View Post
Sounds like you may of not used enough adhesive. A headliner that size should of taken at least two cans.

Did you shoot the entire headliner at once, then lay on the fabric? If you did, that may of also been another issue.
Well the first time was partially my fault, I bought the crappy JA fabric brand glue (it was only a 12oz. can) and it had NO INSTRUCTIONS whatsoever but being the idiot I am I tried to wing it. I was smart enough to do it in thirds (the headliner is literally almost 2 yards) but I just sprayed the headliner and not the foam. I let it sit for 24hrs before I reinstalled it.

The second time I used the Permatex stuff the can was like 18oz. and I used every last drop. I also followed the instructions which said "spray headliner and foam backing, let sit 5 min. Then lay headliner material down and apply pressure." I still did it in thirds. Then I let it sit in my garage (70F) upside down (so gravity was pulling the headliner onto the board) for like 3-4 days. It actually lasted a week or two before a few small spots started coming down
...
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Redoing headliner - question(s)!

3M makes a specific spray contact cement for headliners but i believe PepBoys is the only chain that carries it, comes in a white and red spray can.And specifies headliner use on the can.

The key is to NOT overspray too much adhesive, believe it or not one pass is fine, too much and it doesn't dry correctly leading to it coming apart in spots.

I would stay away from all the other adhesives even from 3m that just say heavy duty because in time it may not hold up.

Cleaning as much as possible all the old foam is your best bet before applying new adhesive since the new adhesive will only break down the old foam faster leading to problems.

Hope this helps
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