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Old 06-08-2021, 07:28 PM   #101
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
One thing to note is that the BCM also is where the 3rd gen's mileage is stored.

So if you pull a BCM from a Saturn with 350k miles, your odometer will change to show 350k miles, once the new BCM is installed.

No big deal if you don't plan on ever selling it but hard to explain to a buyer, otherwise

edit: what year did the donor cruise module come from? Although the modules for all years are interchangeable, I think there may have been some wiring changes for the 3rd gen at the steering wheel. 3rd gen has a "cancel" function that previous gens did not (1st and 2nd gen were on/off only, no cancel)
I got the BCM swapped so it'll run, but still no cruise. So either the swap didn't work, or the module being from a manual and mine's an auto may be the problem because it's not detecting a clutch and won't engage was what I was also told by a dealer. I'm going to return it to the yard and swap it for an automatic just in case that's the cause. It has a 90 day exchange warranty.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 06-08-2021 at 07:35 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 06-08-2021, 07:45 PM   #102
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

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Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
It ought to be in the new owners post that if you own a 3rd gen you're required to use a Tech II for just about everything that was literally plug 'n' play '91-'99.
Also what I've been running into is Shops not returning my calls about flashing it. Even techs I know there or owners won't. They don't seem to be interested in it. Even the Mobile Company that only flashes them won't return them. I still think the Module not being for my transmission may have something to do with it, but as replied above, that doesn't matter if it's manual or not, but the dealer said it does. Confusing me, again.

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Old 06-08-2021, 07:59 PM   #103
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

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Changing the BCM for cruise control has worked for others. I've never figured out why it has not for some. In most cased they could not get the BCM to successfully mate. If you have successfully mated the BCM into the trilogy and the donor BCM has CC programmed into it; it should work. The other points of failure are the cruise module, the switch/clock spring and the fuse.

So you turn the CC on at the switch and the switch light goes on but the set function will not work? You were over 30 mph when you tested it?

The other thing to look for is that the SES light and Check Engine bulbs are working. If those bulbs burn out then cruise control is disabled. It should light up for a couple seconds when you turn the ignition on during its self test.
Yes, the light comes on. I was at 50 M.P.H. The lights are all LED's so I doubt any would be out, but I'll check. I've never noticed if the CE light comes on or not. The fuse is plugged in the fuse box, but I never checked to see if it's good. The LED's seem to be non-serviceable. Only the theater bulbs for the gauge pointers are incandescent.

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Old 06-09-2021, 08:02 AM   #104
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Unless you changed the bulbs in your cluster they are not LED. If you have changed them, perhaps you got the polarity reversed on that bulb. If polarity is reversed then the led bulb won't work and cruise will be disabled.

The cruise module is the same in the automatic and manual equipped S Series from 1996 to 2002. The part number is 21024413 and if you look it up on a GM parts website you can see the compatibility at the bottom. It does not ask if you have manual or auto and there is only one cruise module available. Here is a link to a site.....

https://www.gmpartsonline.net/oem-pa...bC1sNC1nYXM%3D

You did mention at the beginning that you had problems with the cruise module installation; it sounded like you broke it at the pedal attachment. You didn't say how you fixed it but you should double check the attachment to the pedal to make sure it is still attached. Cruise modules do not have a high failure rate however it could happen and may be worth checking as a last resort.
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:31 PM   #105
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz9496 View Post
I still think the Module not being for my transmission may have something to do with it, but as replied above, that doesn't matter if it's manual or not, but the dealer said it does. Confusing me, again.
You might be on the right track here.

A few posts ago, trottida mentioned the 96-02 S-series not needing a physical clutch switch because they instituted a virtual switch to detect when the clutch was pushed in.

The way this worked was that for each manual transmission (MP2 from SOHC cars, MP3 from DOHC cars), there was an "acceptable" RPM range for cruise, for each gear/actual speed. If the RPMs were not in that range, cruise will be disengaged.

For example, let's say you have cruise set at 70 mph in 5th gear in a manual trans car, and you suddenly pushed the clutch in without disengaging cruise. On the older cars, there is a clutch switch which detects the clutch pedal being pushed in, and disengages cruise.

On the 96-02 cars without a clutch switch, the virtual switch acts like this. You press the clutch in and without a load on the engine, your RPMs shoot up. Once the car detects the RPMs are out of the acceptable RPM range for 70 mph, it will disengage cruise to prevent engine damage).

Only the computers from manual trans cars have this virtual clutch switch. I'm assuming/guessing this function was moved to the BCM in 3rd gen cars. So my theory is that the BCM from the manual trans car is looking at the RPMs for your speed in your auto trans car, and saying, "nope, that ain't right" because the RPMs for a 5th gear manual trans at 70 mph and 4th gear auto trans at 70 mph don't match up enough, and disengaging cruise.

Not sure this will work but if you want to test the theory - sometime where there is less traffic, and it is safe to try this - shift your auto trans into "3" instead of "D", get up to 40 mph or so, then engage cruise and see if it will stay engaged. I was looking at Low Saturn's site and noticed that 4th gear in a manual trans from a DOHC (MP3) is pretty close to 3rd gear in a DOHC auto trans (MP7): http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...gearratio.html
Of course, this will not work if the BCM is from a SOHC car. Might not work anyway because of the slight differences in RPM, more idle curiosity than anything else.

Your best bet is the BCM from an auto trans DOHC like your 2000 SL2.
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:49 PM   #106
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

^ ^ ^
EDIT: ignore the above, I re-read the thread and saw you were talking about the cruise module being from a manual, not the BCM. So all the crap I typed out doesn't apply to your case, lol.

As stated. the cruise module is interchangeable regardless of transmission. It is a "dumb" module and has no way of telling what kind of trans or car it is attached to. This has been verified through testing in the "5th gear swap" thread.

I missed the edit window for the post above so it it stuck there. Sorry.
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:56 PM   #107
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Did you read this thread, linked earlier in post 3 of this thread?

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=178521

Any tool that is used for setting cruise on 3rd gens MUST be online with GM's back end to set cruise. Will require a subscription as noted earlier. Something to discuss with any shop or mobile guy doing the work.
Quote:
Alright I now have working cruise in my 2002 SL2. Here's how this works:

1. You can install the hardware yourself. I was able to do it with the help of a friend and the wonderful Mr. Richpin. If you have an offline Tech2 you can confirm that all of the buttons work (you'll have to play with it I don't remember the path to drill down to it)

2. Programming cruise on these cars is simply a matter of flipping a bit, BUT that bit must be flipped while the tool is ONLINE and hooked up to GM's service backend. There is basically a wizard that you step through when preparing to reflash the PCM so be careful and make sure you set the correct options for your car (don't forget about the cruise).

3. After reflashing the PCM I'm pretty sure you need to do the re-introduction to the BCM on these cars. If you don't, I suspect the car won't start. I could use help in confirming this.

4. After things have been re-introduced I suspect you'll need to drive around so that the car can re-learn all of its learned calibration settings.

The dealer took care of steps 2-4 for me. They charged me $75. In my opinion it was reasonable as they had to sit on the phone with GM to confirm everything to ensure that I'd be able to drive away with a working car.

I can confirm that cruise is working on my 2002 SL2!
For a while after Saturn folded, some places were advertising as "authorized Saturn repair" dealerships. I dunno if that is still a thing or if there are any around you in NE but might have better luck there
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Old 06-09-2021, 04:31 PM   #108
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

I think we've settled on that the current installed BCM is programmed for CC so the issue lies somewhere else. I get the sense that if he had the original BCM programmed to enable cruise nothing would change other then his pocket would be a little lighter.

Before abandoning the BCM swap he needs to rule out the other potential issues which would prevent cruise control from working with any installed BCM. Read post 104
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Old 06-09-2021, 04:46 PM   #109
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by trottida View Post
Unless you changed the bulbs in your cluster they are not LED. If you have changed them, perhaps you got the polarity reversed on that bulb. If polarity is reversed then the led bulb won't work and cruise will be disabled.

The cruise module is the same in the automatic and manual equipped S Series from 1996 to 2002. The part number is 21024413 and if you look it up on a GM parts website you can see the compatibility at the bottom. It does not ask if you have manual or auto and there is only one cruise module available. Here is a link to a site.....

https://www.gmpartsonline.net/oem-pa...bC1sNC1nYXM%3D

You did mention at the beginning that you had problems with the cruise module installation; it sounded like you broke it at the pedal attachment. You didn't say how you fixed it but you should double check the attachment to the pedal to make sure it is still attached. Cruise modules do not have a high failure rate however it could happen and may be worth checking as a last resort.
The module "Fix" for the strap at the pedal was with another module from a 5 speed manual. The first one I broke was an automatic at the yard. I never broke mine. When I opened the end of the gauge cluster to look at the bulbs, they're small square cells molded into the circuit board. No bulbs. That to me, looks to be an LED cell. They're not replaceable. Only the Turn Signals, Running Light's "On" and Gauge Bulbs are replaceable. My L Series were All actual bulbs.
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:24 PM   #110
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

I've been around these cars for a while now and LED's were not factory. The back of the cluster looks like the photo below. All those round blue things are bulbs.

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Old 06-09-2021, 10:28 PM   #111
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Correct. How about the lights along the bottom rows, tho. Air Bag, Seat Belts, Change Oil Soon, etc. There's no sockets to those. They're little white squares, is what I can see. I still have my Dash Pad out after I tried the BCM swap this last weekend. I'll take a flash light and gently pull up the side-front card and check again. I've never heard of LED lights back that far, tho isn't the Mileage bulb LED ? I could take that out in my L200 and it didn't look like a standard bulb for that, either, unless it's just some "Funky Looking" standard bulb. I'll post an update what I find, just for fun. I don't want to argue about something that means nothing, so to speak.

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Old 06-09-2021, 11:37 PM   #112
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

The mileage bulb in an S Series is not a LED.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:05 AM   #113
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

So when you turn the key to run does the SES light illuminate as part of the self check. This should be your first test as if it does then it is not the problem. If it does not then you are into pulling the gauge cluster.

I looked at the service manual for 2002 SL2 and it indicates that if the SES light does not illuminate then you have to replace the gauge cluster. You are likely correct that it is a hard wired bulb and is not replaceable. My apologies; It's been a while since I've dug into a GEN3; I haven't owned one for a few years now. I currently have a GEN2.

I have attached the documents from the service manual for your reference. They are saved to a google drive.
Cruise Control Malfunction Diagnosis

IP Bulb Check

IP Cluster Diagnosis
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:46 PM   #114
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

What's the SES light ? I don't pay attention to any lights that come on when you turn the key on. The shop emailed the Programming Tech and He said He can enable the Cruise with their equipment. I read on the malfunction instructions about a Brake Switch. I thought there was only the module and S.W. switches. If there's a problem, wouldn't the Tech be able to read it on the scanner or Laptop ? I would assume it would show a problem until it was fixed. He's coming out tomorrow morning to Flash it.

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Old 06-10-2021, 10:16 PM   #115
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Service engine soon = SES
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:23 PM   #116
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Yeah, I was just going to reply to that. I figured that out. Yes, it lights. It's throwing an air pump code is all the scanner showed. From what I was told, you can remove that pump, because it's means nothing related to the performance of the engine. We don't have inspections here, tho we should for as much junk there is on the road around here.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:19 AM   #117
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

I need a quick answer here before the Guy comes to program the computer for cruise. Does the BCM need flashed, or the computer under the hood or both ? The shop tech called and asked which one that needs programmed so the Guy knows. The shop tech must not have any knowlege of what needs done. I figured the programmer should know, but He's not sure what He needs to tell Him. Thanks for any answers so I can call Him back. I could be out $175 if He shows up and can't do it unless told. I wouldn't think He wouldn't know what needs to be done.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:45 AM   #118
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

Should just be a standard PassLock VIN programming match that just about any '00+ GM requires if you're swapping BCM's.

This thread should help for programming the specific options: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137550
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:01 PM   #119
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

The cruise control setting that needs to be enabled is with the BCM. I'd recommend putting your original BCM back in to keep your VIN and mileage.
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:11 PM   #120
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Default Re: 2000 Saturn SL2 cruise control installation

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The cruise control setting that needs to be enabled is with the BCM. I'd recommend putting your original BCM back in to keep your VIN and mileage.
Yep, I re-read the past replies on that. I did put the original BCM back in mine. I told that to the Tech at My shop. From what I was told by Him, is exactly what was explained above. They have the GM subscription to acess these. We'll see when I get the call He's done it.
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