SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-28-2021, 10:12 PM   #1
rtfm17
Member
rtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 89

1999 SL1
2000 SL1
Default AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

My question is- If you were to pull a working compressor and empty it, how much should come out? 35cc or closer to 65cc.

AC compressor was weak so I bought a reman that claimed to be pre-loaded with PAG and added r134. It worked a little but not very well and never built pressure. So I ordered a replacement, flushed the system, replacing the TXV & dehydrator/accumulator, and going to give it another try.

I pulled the first one and it had about 35cc of PAG, maybe 45. FSM says they come with 65cc. I suspect the first was either not remanned correctly and/or it didn't have enough oil. But I know some gets dispersed. Curious what 'normal' would be for a known-good compressor from a working system.
rtfm17 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 05-28-2021, 11:26 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,064
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

What service manuals conveniently leave out, if you can read between the lines, is that refrigerant oil continually circulates throughout the ac system. Carried as a mist mixed with refrigerant and dye on the output side. The high pressure goes into the condenser coil then drier, and on to the thermal expansion valve. Oil is distributed everywhere. Once at the txv, liquid refrigerant, oil and dye are released into the evaporator coil to expand back to its gaseous state where heat is absorbed from the fins and warm air flow. Cold air is returned to the cabin. Refrigerant, oil mist and dye return to the input side where oil lubes the compressor. The cycle of refrigeration begins again.

There are no set amounts of oil when draining the original compressor. The procedure with replacing compressors is to drain the old oil as the amount needed to pour new oil into the replacement compressor. The replacement may or may not have oil and should be drained to determine amount. This allows knowing old oil amount drained to use as the amount of new oil poured into the replacement. Remember, oil was distributed throughout the system so there isn't a set amount left in a compressor. If you have GM/Saturn service manuals, oil balancing procedures are spelled out when replacing major ac parts and amount of oil to pour into each part to maintain oil balance without pouring in too much or too little. And while you're at it, either pour dye into the compressor or use one can of r134a with dye. This will help if a leak occurs.

When you completely flushed the system, all oil was flushed out so the factory amount from service manuals should be used. No more than approximately 7.5 ozs. In your case with a completely empty system, specific amounts of oil are poured into the compressor, condenser coil drier, and evaporator coil. This allows immediate lubrication when the system is recharged to feed a continuous supply of oil at startup of a rebuilt system. Do not pour the entire amount into the compressor. And while you're at it, either pour dye into the compressor or use one can of r134a with dye.

Last edited by fdryer; 05-28-2021 at 11:36 PM.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2021, 11:45 PM   #3
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

I feel that method outlined above, "measure what you drain and replace the same" is inadequate. It doesn't account for any oil that may have been lost to leakage or discharge of the refrigerant.

Alas, I don't have any suggestion that is definitely better. I struggled with this when I had a compressor off and got little-to-no oil out of it. I put it back with a full amount of oil needed for just a compressor. Too much oil may not be good, but in all machinery I have worked with, too much lubricant is less damaging than too little...

Obviously, the proper way would be a complete flush of the system, then adding back the specified amount of oil for the whole system.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 11:58 AM   #4
rtfm17
Member
rtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 89

1999 SL1
2000 SL1
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

Thanks. Guess I'll never know why the first reman didn't work. Hopefully, attempt #2 does.

Do you know- Are the seals to the AC hoses at the compressor O-rings, or flat?
(Everything came with new seals so I don't want to buy a whole kit for just 2).
rtfm17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 01:13 PM   #5
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

I only know about my '94. The high was/is an O-ring; but the low was a "D"-ring that did not go into the bore on the compressor far enough to give a reliable seal, I think.

It went back together with that same D-ring, and an O-ring alongside the D (can't remember which side). With the two rings side-by-side one or the other is being shoved into the compressor bore past the chamfer on the bore entry, so it has a chance of sealing. It doesn't help any that the low is a "one screw, off to one side" attachment to the compressor. It doesn't want to clamp down completely flat against the port as well as I would like.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 02:44 PM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,064
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

If I'm not mistaken, low side uses a flat seal - crimped flat O-ring surrounded by an aluminum crush washer. As the hose fitting clamps down, the flat seal (no lube) forms a seal. The discharge/high side uses an O-ring as well as every other fitting. All O-rings are lubed with r12/mineral oil. Pag oil is not recommended because it absorbs moisture leading to fitting corrosion that can result in leaking. All mating surfaces should be examined for pitting, corrosion and debris preventing complete sealing against operating pressures exceeding 200 psi on the high side. Suction side pressures shouldn't exceed 45 psi but when ac isn't used, system standby pressures will vary similar to outside temperatures (75F/75 psi, 95F/95 psi).

Did you use a uv light to shine on every part of the ac system or not?
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 08:17 PM   #7
rtfm17
Member
rtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 89

1999 SL1
2000 SL1
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

I don't think it had any existing leaks; I'm just thinking it's a good idea to replace seals on everything I disconnected. The compressor didn't come with new ones like the other components.

I haven't reconnected everything yet. When I do I'll check that it holds the vacuum for 10 mins and check again after a couple of hours, maybe even overnight, before I actually fill it.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and insight. It's greatly appreciated.
rtfm17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 09:22 PM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,064
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

With older systems (10+ years), it may be prudent to replace both service valves while the system is open. With gauges connected, valves cannot be checked for faulty sealing. And after a perfect vacuum is achieved (the goal of every repair), recharged to restore cooling, use new valve caps and tighten them against any slow leaks from valves.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2021, 06:09 PM   #9
Sc29655
New Member
Sc29655 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 4
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

I have a 96 SC2 that I bought used. I noticed there was a junkyard compressor swap in it, and I bought it knowing the AC didn't work. For me it ended up being the low side hose had a slit in it from rubbing around the ignition coil area.

What I did notice is that when I added freon not knowing it had a leak, the compressor eventually kicked on but it sounded terrible. Like a machine gun. I instantly associated this with no lubrication so I shut everything down, and later found the real problem being the leaky hose.

When I replaced the hose, I also put the PAG 100 oil into the compressor as per specified amount in the FSM. After doing so I put on new o-rings, low side hose, filled it up, and haven't had any problems since. You will notice if there is a lack of lubrication in the compressor due to the sound it will make, at least that's what my experience told me.

Another tip is if you have a harbor freight near you and are willing to invest around 60 bucks, they make an awesome refrigerant leak detector. It's a sniffer tool that detects freon. You can set the sensitivity and it makes a very audible noise when it detects a leak. It takes all the guesswork out of chasing down leaks and you don't need to mess with dye or any of that, you just run the probe along all the hoses/connection points/schrader valves. I've since used it on multiple cars and it's paid for itself.
Sc29655 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2021, 01:57 PM   #10
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,325
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
I feel that method outlined above, "measure what you drain and replace the same" is inadequate. It doesn't account for any oil that may have been lost to leakage or discharge of the refrigerant.

Alas, I don't have any suggestion that is definitely better. I struggled with this when I had a compressor off and got little-to-no oil out of it. I put it back with a full amount of oil needed for just a compressor. Too much oil may not be good, but in all machinery I have worked with, too much lubricant is less damaging than too little...

Obviously, the proper way would be a complete flush of the system, then adding back the specified amount of oil for the whole system.
Most FSM instructions say use the great of what you are replacing and some minimum amount.
-Robert
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:42 PM   #11
rtfm17
Member
rtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the roughrtfm17 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 89

1999 SL1
2000 SL1
Default Re: AC how much PAG oil should come OUT of a compressor when pulled?

Update. Ironically it hit 90, then 45 in a cold snap so I had to wait a few days. Flush & TXV + Dehydrator/accumulator successful. It's in the high 80s and AC is working very well. Thanks again for the help!
rtfm17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pulled again travistuttle S-Series Mods 11 07-18-2007 01:44 PM
Got pulled grn96sl2 S-Series Mods 16 03-18-2007 06:55 PM
got pulled over sl2clone S-Series General 25 02-25-2007 06:38 PM
I got pulled over... sps SOHC General Saturn Discussion 34 02-18-2005 04:01 PM
I've been pulled in..... edwilson13185 General Saturn Discussion 17 04-14-2001 12:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.