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Old 04-16-2020, 09:22 AM   #421
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Brandon,

You say the car idles perfectly. Does it run fine if you give it some gas ?
Have you drove it ?
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:25 AM   #422
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Brandon,

You say the car idles perfectly. Does it run fine if you give it some gas ?
Have you drove it ?
Maybe perfectly is pushing it lbraner. It does run fine when I give it gas. However when I turn it off and erase the code. Before the check engine light comes back on; the car does a very small hiccup during idle that makes the car kinda gulp before the idle drops for a split second; check engine light comes on and then it idles at 900-1000 RPM.

I haven't had the nerve to drive it. I don't believe that fixing the problem before fixing the source problem is good enough to clear all my investment on a test drive.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:15 PM   #423
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Current Fuel Pressure Gauge Readings:

0 psi / key off
39 psi / key over
45 psi / engine running idle
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:41 PM   #424
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
Maybe perfectly is pushing it lbraner. It does run fine when I give it gas. However when I turn it off and erase the code. Before the check engine light comes back on; the car does a very small hiccup during idle that makes the car kinda gulp before the idle drops for a split second; check engine light comes on and then it idles at 900-1000 RPM.

I haven't had the nerve to drive it. I don't believe that fixing the problem before fixing the source problem is good enough to clear all my investment on a test drive.
It is the check engine light, not the "wrench" light ?
What trouble codes are you getting ?
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:53 PM   #425
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
It is the check engine light, not the "wrench" light ?
What trouble codes are you getting ?
It's not the wrench. I only had that for a short time because I forgot to plug the battery box + BLUE + BROWN cables back in and it generated wrench codes.

The only code I am picking up on with OBDII reader is DTC #P0102 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Low.

Funny; the mail man just came and dropped off a brand new MAF sensor. I suppose I should go replace it.
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:25 PM   #426
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Update:

Just replaced the MAF sensor with a new MAF sensor.


Restart #1 since replacement: Start; idle - immediate engine die.

Restart #2 since replacement: Start; idle - any gas - immediate engine die.

Restart #3 since replacement: Start; idle (rough, however highest I have ever seen it idle which is at 1,200 RPM's before showing me a low of 900 RPM's). Once pedal is pushed; immediate die.

The service engine light is now off though.

(It was running much better before switching the MAF sensor regardless of the service engine light) -- *Scratching my head*
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:12 PM   #427
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I wonder if the other sensor was bad; yet allowed better flow (angle, etc) for the exact way that I installed the MAF and the hosing w/ clamps last time

vs. this time w/ not "the right angle" or some variable that solved my ability to idle and use the accelerator without causing the engine to fail.

Or could it be x amount % of breathing capacity (lines + hoses + engine modules) + MAF placement (angles, hoses, clamps).

Or the combination?

Because in scenario 1 ) The car ran better than it has since it's breakdown. (Minus taking it for a drive)

Scenario 2 ) The Service Engine Light clears - MAF Sensor fixes that. Now zero acceleration and very rough idle (for the first time).
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:53 PM   #428
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Disconnect the intake air tube to throttle so you can see into throttle. Have someone turn on ignition (no starting) then slowly press the gas pedal as you observe the throttle butterfly inside throttle. Does it move at all? Does it move when the pedal is pressed?

Pedal and throttle butterfly should move together.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:48 PM   #429
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Disconnect the intake air tube to throttle so you can see into throttle. Have someone turn on ignition (no starting) then slowly press the gas pedal as you observe the throttle butterfly inside throttle. Does it move at all? Does it move when the pedal is pressed?

Pedal and throttle butterfly should move together.
I wish I could test (I am the only human) - no friends / family.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:22 PM   #430
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

No one around to lend a hand for less than a minute to perform this test?

An alternative without another person working the pedal would be placing a brick against the pedal, say halfway (gauge total pedal travel from its home position to fully floored) depressed and examine the throttle butterfly valve for approximately the same opening from (nearly) closed position. Repeat again but with pedal all the way down to the floor and check for full throttle opening.

There is no cable to physically move throttle. The electronic pedal tells the ecm where to move throttle opening. You're testing (with ignition ON, engine off) pedal-to-ecm-to-throttle servo motor electronics.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:24 PM   #431
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
No one around to lend a hand for less than a minute to perform this test?

An alternative without another person working the pedal would be placing a brick against the pedal, say halfway (gauge total pedal travel from its home position to fully floored) depressed and examine the throttle butterfly valve for approximately the same opening from (nearly) closed position. Repeat again but with pedal all the way down to the floor and check for full throttle opening.

There is no cable to physically move throttle. The electronic pedal tells the ecm where to move throttle opening. You're testing (with ignition ON, engine off) pedal-to-ecm-to-throttle servo motor electronics.
a brick you say... hmm... not on hand.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:47 PM   #432
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

C'mon, there isn't a loose brick lying around somewhere, a large rock, piece of broken concrete, something heavy enough to sit in place as it presses on the pedal without being pushed back? My guess is anything weighing around 5lbs or more and sized to lean on the pedal to hold it in any random position you choose. Small tool box, heavy book, etc?
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:00 AM   #433
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
C'mon, there isn't a loose brick lying around somewhere, a large rock, piece of broken concrete, something heavy enough to sit in place as it presses on the pedal without being pushed back? My guess is anything weighing around 5lbs or more and sized to lean on the pedal to hold it in any random position you choose. Small tool box, heavy book, etc?
Would a dead body work? I'll have to scrounge through body parts, see what I have available!

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Old 04-17-2020, 06:01 AM   #434
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

On a more serious note; thank you fdryer, I will look into using a boot or something filled with tools to hold the pedal down.

Is this in the throttle body that I will be looking for the flap?


Some other weird thing that happened was i've had delayed computer things with the car. For instance; I went to do my windshield wipers; I do the action with the button and instead of instant response... it was several seconds of glitch to actually end up wiping my windshield.

The same type of thing happened regarding a dimmer light.
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Old 04-17-2020, 09:59 AM   #435
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

No dead bodies allowed. And besides that, using a dead body decomposing with offensive odors may attract attention....

Removing the intake air tubing between the air filter housing on the passenger side and throttle body side will allow you to see into the throttle body with the butterfly valve in view, (nearly closed position). Stick a weight to press on the gas pedal with ignition on and see where the throttle valve opens to. Move the weight several times to move the pedal into more positions and check throttle plate position to match pedal travel. If you want to keep it simple, have the pedal all the way to the floor - throttle plate/butterfly valve should be wide open to verify your electronic drive by wire system is operating correctly. The engine doesn't need to be running for this simple test.

The glitch in wiper action and dimmer light seems to point to the body control module (BCM). It's possible for the battery running down to create unusual problems unless the battery state of charge is known, not an issue or needs recharging to rule out a power problem contributing to this. Be aware to have the battery fully charged with an inexpensive trickle charger ( no more than 2 amps) during these starting events when the engine dies on its own. Without the engine running above idle for several minutes or more, as in driving, the battery may not recharge from the alternator with brief engine runs.
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Last edited by fdryer; 04-17-2020 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:48 AM   #436
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
No dead bodies allowed. And besides that, using a dead body decomposing with offensive odors may attract attention....

Removing the intake air tubing between the air filter housing on the passenger side and throttle body side will allow you to see into the throttle body with the butterfly valve in view, (nearly closed position). Stick a weight to press on the gas pedal with ignition on and see where the throttle valve opens to. Move the weight several times to move the pedal into more positions and check throttle plate position to match pedal travel. If you want to keep it simple, have the pedal all the way to the floor - throttle plate/butterfly valve should be wide open to verify your electronic drive by wire system is operating correctly. The engine doesn't need to be running for this simple test.

The glitch in wiper action and dimmer light seems to point to the body control module (BCM). It's possible for the battery running down to create unusual problems unless the battery state of charge is known, not an issue or needs recharging to rule out a power problem contributing to this. Be aware to have the battery fully charged with an inexpensive trickle charger ( no more than 2 amps) during these starting events when the engine dies on its own. Without the engine running above idle for several minutes or more, as in driving, the battery may not recharge from the alternator with brief engine runs.
fdryer, lol; love it!

Great info on the testing the throttle/butterfly operations. I am going to have to invest in a phone stand to record or something while I am behind the wheel. They must have something like that.

I performed two things today and it got it's manliness back.

1) Replaced the ECM to the 2003 LW300 version and it took the ECM with same exact problems after pairing/re-learn.

2) Replaced the MAF sensor (the new one) with itself and flipped it backwards. I was hoping I installed it backwards and it turns out I did.

Now it starts, idles and takes pedal action. Still burning off white smoke that smells a bit sweet. Still some smell of oil when idling to a heating point.

All in all; this gave me confident to continue and proceed with the entire rebuild (Hose+Upper Intake+Throttle Body+Crankshaft-Assembly-Housing+New-Lines)

Only thing that is bothering me now is not knowing what to expect with the 4-6 live lines I am going to encounter.

Some fuel and some ... not certain. Or just all fuel.

Thanks for always having an answer!
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:51 AM   #437
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

3 Steps taken here:

1) Installed ECU (2003 - LW300)

2) Re-learned ECU

output -> same results. Won't stay running; won't idle; weak idle and no acceleration.

3) Re-installed the MAF sensor (flipped backwards); as it seems I installed it incorrectly.

and now it has muscle.

It's amazing how the MAF sensor installation can make such a huge difference on the performance of the engine.

Just flipping it backwards can result in major confusion and limp engine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_cropped_20200417_065539.jpg (46.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 2_cropped_20200417_065822.jpg (41.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 3_cropped_20200417_065830.jpg (36.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 4_cropped_20200417_065848.jpg (33.8 KB, 2 views)
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:52 AM   #438
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

3 Steps taken here:

1) Installed ECU (2003 - LW300)

2) Re-learned ECU

output -> same results. Won't stay running; won't idle; weak idle and no acceleration.

3) Re-installed the MAF sensor (flipped backwards); as it seems I installed it incorrectly.

and now it has muscle.

It's amazing how the MAF sensor installation can make such a huge difference on the performance of the engine.

Just flipping it backwards can result in major confusion and limp engine.

(This is the correction MAF sensor w/ hoses) -- Works great now!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_cropped_20200417_072751.jpg (112.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 2_cropped_20200417_072754.jpg (86.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:12 AM   #439
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Throttle peddle test refined...

Basic Theory: Take all those parts you snagged from the bone yard and put them on the gas peddle.

Here's the procedure...

Start Engine, throw all JY parts in and on the gas peddle so the vehicle quickly accelerates and drives straight into a deep lake. End of procedure!
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:22 AM   #440
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Throttle peddle test refined...

Basic Theory: Take all those parts you snagged from the bone yard and put them on the gas peddle.

Here's the procedure...

Start Engine, throw all JY parts in and on the gas peddle so the vehicle quickly accelerates and drives straight into a deep lake. End of procedure!
Rj,

You haven't lost yet. No sense in not rooting for* a fellow L-series owner.

Not off to a good start

How many parts have you replaced on your engine so far?
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