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Old 04-10-2020, 11:22 AM   #301
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

It appears some electrical specs change with the body style change. The throttle pedal sensor and throttle actuator specs are different between my 02 manuals and fdryer’s 03 set. I bought a complete set of factory repair manuals on e-bay. Factory manuals are full of information for a professional mechanic with dealer type diagnostic equipment. They also assume that the dealer mechanic knows the basic diagnostic steps and they are not explained in factory manuals. The Haynes type manuals are designed for the home mechanic with basic tools or code readers.
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Old 04-10-2020, 12:22 PM   #302
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
CRANKCASE VENTILATION OPEL VECTRA-B

Link: https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/j96/e/10/17-0/

Has the entire exploded view on the Crankcase Ventilation System it seems. All those hoses are presumed to be semi-clogged or sections still all the way/partially clogged. Is there an auto store online that I can type a GM part number and have it find the part?

Thanks! Hope this helps. I believe this is what kept the car from running. If you look at the image; Hose 9 was extremely clogged. I couldn't do a all the way thru cleaning the way I was using the pipe cleaners and bending the L shaped hose to do so. Since I am able to pick #11 #8 #10 #5


Hose #7 is the back one that I tried to salvage I think at the Junkyard. This is the hose that broke. Still can't get a purchase order online with this part #. Discontinued, etc.

Hose #13; I haven't inspected or even realized I should be looking. I will have to see if I see this hose.
Brandon, that diagram is of the hoses and the PCV module is far from the a complete diagram of the Crankcase Ventilation System. Yes, you have a blockage in the large diameter short hose located on the passenger side of the engine. This also means the plastic bridge and the hose leading to the PCV module are likely plugged as well. Debris (gunk) doesn't accumulate at the end of the route... it starts building up inside the PCV module first and spreads out from there. All these parts need to be taken off your engine and cleaned. Replacing just the hoses is what the junk yard car did as seen your pictures. Replacing the hoses will only provide a temporary fix.

My PCV module was full of gunk 1/4" thick, but my attached hoses were clear. I can guarantee you the small vacuum hose inlet on the PCV is completely plugged, the reed valve has long been gone and all the other hoses are plugged as well. You can clean hoses and reuse them.

It is as I said from the beginning of this thread... your oil leaks are due to too much crankcase pressure. You have worked to plug the leaks and clean up oily spots but ignored the source of the problem. Solve the source problem(s) and work backwards from there.

I provided the best plan with details how to check for vacuum leasks, and remove/inspect most components of the crankcase ventilation system. Stop swatting wasps and go for the nest!
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Old 04-10-2020, 04:53 PM   #303
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I cannot tell you if the '05 manual will give accurate info for your '01. In theory, the engines and xmission are the same but there may be running changes to some things. While any manual is better than none, I'd lean towards alldata or Mitchell as info is specific to year and model plus service bulletins as changes were made. You won't get service bulletins from an old set of manuals. Again, your choice for paper copies or electronic library.

My set of '03 manuals are for my '03 L300 (with errors as I uncovered them over the years).

The small rectangular thingy is the actual mass air flow sensor. It's mounted into the middle of the large round plastic housing with two tamper proof torx screws. The reason for the hard round housing is to ensure a uniform air flow into the maf sensor. Anyone attempting to modify airflow before and after the maf sensor housing usually results in an error code due to disrupted airflow. Disrupt airflow thru the sensor and incorrect signals are sent to the ecm resulting in incorrect fuel mixtures. Airflow is a science unknown to the average diyer.

A center pin prevents using a regular torx bit on it. Special torx bits made for them are available. Some imagination and a good vise grip with sharp edges on each jaw can grab the flat part of the torx screw to loosen it. Once a good bite is able to unscrew it about a full turn, grab it again to remove the screws. These screws are similar to wood screws to bite into soft plastic without stripping threads. Self tapping screws. If you get the whole maf sensor assembly with its housing from those snapshots in the junk yard, fine. Use it as is. The suggestion to clean the maf sensor of any dirt from sitting in the junk yard still applies but maybe not necessary if the engine wasn't stripped of parts before you attacked it.
fdryer,

Good to know on your 03 service manuals. I am hoping that the 2005 service manual set (which is the best ones that I can find for my budget) covers my engine without changes since the engine's all seem to look the same.

I hope I don't error in that decision when it's time.

I don't want a corporation to limit my viewing time of any electronic format and I don't know the limitations of said downloads of electronic content to take a chance with alldata or Mitchell at this point in time.

I made it back to the Junk Yard today; it wasn't the trip that I had planned; yet fully worth it considering my next trip is fruitful. (1 by listening to what RJ is saying on how to get the Upper Intake Manifold removed) -- without breaking the fuel lines and the metal water well looking piece. (Maybe they lift up and over). I will have to ask him.

The MAF sensor was there as I left it; however it wasn't near the cost I assumed. I was assuming $15-20 since I could buy it new on Amazon for $21 and some cents.

$67 charge attempt and I said I could buy on Amazon; she said no Amazon price matches.

I then ordered the brand new one for $21 on Amazon (just a 1-2 week wait). Fair enough!

Next since the engine is all prepped for removing the parts needed to get fix the actual problem on my engine and get to the PCV module that Rj has been tackling.

I can pickup the Upper intake manifold for $65. This is perfect If I can do it before College starts on Tuesday.

I am going to study the pics and ask you guys some questions if I / you have the time.
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Old 04-10-2020, 04:54 PM   #304
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02 LW300 View Post
It appears some electrical specs change with the body style change. The throttle pedal sensor and throttle actuator specs are different between my 02 manuals and fdryer’s 03 set. I bought a complete set of factory repair manuals on e-bay. Factory manuals are full of information for a professional mechanic with dealer type diagnostic equipment. They also assume that the dealer mechanic knows the basic diagnostic steps and they are not explained in factory manuals. The Haynes type manuals are designed for the home mechanic with basic tools or code readers.
02 LW300,

Are the engine exploded diagrams very helpful in your set? Are yours the 3 binder, 4, 8 (I see a bunch on eBay) -- then I see the 2005 L-Series 2 Volume Set.
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Old 04-10-2020, 04:58 PM   #305
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Brandon, that diagram is of the hoses and the PCV module is far from the a complete diagram of the Crankcase Ventilation System. Yes, you have a blockage in the large diameter short hose located on the passenger side of the engine. This also means the plastic bridge and the hose leading to the PCV module are likely plugged as well. Debris (gunk) doesn't accumulate at the end of the route... it starts building up inside the PCV module first and spreads out from there. All these parts need to be taken off your engine and cleaned. Replacing just the hoses is what the junk yard car did as seen your pictures. Replacing the hoses will only provide a temporary fix.

My PCV module was full of gunk 1/4" thick, but my attached hoses were clear. I can guarantee you the small vacuum hose inlet on the PCV is completely plugged, the reed valve has long been gone and all the other hoses are plugged as well. You can clean hoses and reuse them.

It is as I said from the beginning of this thread... your oil leaks are due to too much crankcase pressure. You have worked to plug the leaks and clean up oily spots but ignored the source of the problem. Solve the source problem(s) and work backwards from there.

I provided the best plan with details how to check for vacuum leasks, and remove/inspect most components of the crankcase ventilation system. Stop swatting wasps and go for the nest!
Rj,

I am dying to dive into the wasp nest and resolve this once and for all. I still haven't seen a picture of what it looks like once the Upper Intake Manifold is removed.

Thank you for the pictures you shared. So once the rear and front inner intake manifolds are removed and all the bolts and connectors are removed (Which the Junkyard one; the one I need) -- is all ready except I didn't pull the front and rear intake out yet.

So once I do that. I just grab each side and lift up? How do I not hit the fuel lines that lay across the top? And What about that big metal water tank looking thing; that's the fuel system right? Does the upper intake manifold lift up over these items?

If I can salvage it tomorrow; I get the whole Upper Intake Manifold; then I can slowly replace the PCV that I also believe is clogged based on the evidence.
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:22 PM   #306
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Brandon, that diagram is of the hoses and the PCV module is far from the a complete diagram of the Crankcase Ventilation System. Yes, you have a blockage in the large diameter short hose located on the passenger side of the engine. This also means the plastic bridge and the hose leading to the PCV module are likely plugged as well. Debris (gunk) doesn't accumulate at the end of the route... it starts building up inside the PCV module first and spreads out from there. All these parts need to be taken off your engine and cleaned. Replacing just the hoses is what the junk yard car did as seen your pictures. Replacing the hoses will only provide a temporary fix.

My PCV module was full of gunk 1/4" thick, but my attached hoses were clear. I can guarantee you the small vacuum hose inlet on the PCV is completely plugged, the reed valve has long been gone and all the other hoses are plugged as well. You can clean hoses and reuse them.

It is as I said from the beginning of this thread... your oil leaks are due to too much crankcase pressure. You have worked to plug the leaks and clean up oily spots but ignored the source of the problem. Solve the source problem(s) and work backwards from there.

I provided the best plan with details how to check for vacuum leasks, and remove/inspect most components of the crankcase ventilation system. Stop swatting wasps and go for the nest!
Are there any particular tools required that you noted once you removed the Upper Intake Manifold and accessed the PCV module?

Is the PCV module replaceable? Can I just piece that out from this Junkyard car along with the Oil Cooler that fdryer pointed out.

My backpack is heavy as with all the tools I need to work under the hood.
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:13 PM   #307
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I listed the bolt, nut sizes on the photos. With those sockets or Torx, you could use a various size extensions.

You can literally see the PCV module once all the parts are removed. A long extension helps removing the four bolts and the PCV Module will come off with a bit of encouragement. There is no gasket, just ATV. The idea is to remove the numerous PCV hoses and the plastic bridge and clean them out. Once you get the PCV module out. I'll give you more information which might be redundant because I think I already posted info on rebuilding it.
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:35 PM   #308
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
I listed the bolt, nut sizes on the photos. With those sockets or Torx, you could use a various size extensions.

You can literally see the PCV module once all the parts are removed. A long extension helps removing the four bolts and the PCV Module will come off with a bit of encouragement. There is no gasket, just ATV. The idea is to remove the numerous PCV hoses and the plastic bridge and clean them out. Once you get the PCV module out. I'll give you more information which might be redundant because I think I already posted info on rebuilding it.
Rj,

Okay; good to know.
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Old 04-10-2020, 09:44 PM   #309
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Rj,

Just seen the dark picture you posted of the Upper Intake Manifold removed.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...8&d=1586456766
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Old 04-10-2020, 09:48 PM   #310
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
Update from the Yunkyard:

Part-3: Remainder Pictures. I removed most of the bolts so that I can easily remove the front and rear intake manifold's if/when necessary.
fdryer,

Regarding this section. I don't believe I screwed it back together. Did I damage the Upper Intake Manifold by not closing it back up? It's been 72 hours I believe.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:47 PM   #311
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

If I didn't break the Upper Intake Manifold by leaving that right part open. Could I use WD-40 to spray on the inside to lube it up again so it's not damaged, if it is.
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Old 04-10-2020, 11:30 PM   #312
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

The factory service manual set I have are 4 binders full of separate manuals.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 76E9C764-8DBB-463D-8705-4BC6B4D35C16.jpeg (72.9 KB, 4 views)
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Old 04-11-2020, 01:51 AM   #313
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
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fdryer......Regarding this section. I don't believe I screwed it back together. Did I damage the Upper Intake Manifold by not closing it back up? It's been 72 hours I believe.
I'm not sure of your descriptions. Looking at this intake air section, the main intake center plenum with throttle actuator, front and rear intake runners along with miscellaneous items make up the upper intake. The lower intake runners (one unit) and lower spacer (large black plastic interface) make up the rest of the intake air system. Other than searching past threads of members posting snapshots and descriptions of this area as well as Rj 2000 LS2's descriptions, you're only source of accurate info are from service manuals. Second guessing is fine as long as a person is aware of a lack of information by not having manuals and can rely on diy experience.

If I'm not mistaken, if you choose to remove the crankcase ventilation housing (GMs description), I think you'll have to remove the fuel rail, lower intake runner assembly and injectors assembly. The service manual doesn't explain what parts are removed to have access to the crankcase ventilation housing. Here's where electronic manuals provided updated guidelines hard copy manuals leave out. I discovered this large discrepancy when I had access to alldata and Mitchell after being confused and frustrated by my manuals.

And I must correct a previous comment of the fitting shown by you of two oil soaked hoses and a sensor. I mistakenly assumed that was the oil cooler assembly - it is not. That snapshot you posted is the coolant bridge and the coolant sensor on the left of the coonat bridge. Our V6 has cooling passages and to allow coolant to flow from one side of the engine to the other, this bridge with a hollow interior allows coolant to flow. The oil soaked hoses are coolant lines, not oil lines. The oil is coming from somewhere in that area. My apologies for any confusion to gearheads working without manuals. When I searched for info in my manuals, I discovered my mistake in mixing the oil cooling system with the cooling system bridge.
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Old 04-11-2020, 06:46 AM   #314
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

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The factory service manual set I have are 4 binders full of separate manuals.
02 LW300,

Looks like a nice set you got there!
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Old 04-11-2020, 06:51 AM   #315
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I'm not sure of your descriptions. Looking at this intake air section, the main intake center plenum with throttle actuator, front and rear intake runners along with miscellaneous items make up the upper intake. The lower intake runners (one unit) and lower spacer (large black plastic interface) make up the rest of the intake air system. Other than searching past threads of members posting snapshots and descriptions of this area as well as Rj 2000 LS2's descriptions, you're only source of accurate info are from service manuals. Second guessing is fine as long as a person is aware of a lack of information by not having manuals and can rely on diy experience.

If I'm not mistaken, if you choose to remove the crankcase ventilation housing (GMs description), I think you'll have to remove the fuel rail, lower intake runner assembly and injectors assembly. The service manual doesn't explain what parts are removed to have access to the crankcase ventilation housing. Here's where electronic manuals provided updated guidelines hard copy manuals leave out. I discovered this large discrepancy when I had access to alldata and Mitchell after being confused and frustrated by my manuals.

And I must correct a previous comment of the fitting shown by you of two oil soaked hoses and a sensor. I mistakenly assumed that was the oil cooler assembly - it is not. That snapshot you posted is the coolant bridge and the coolant sensor on the left of the coonat bridge. Our V6 has cooling passages and to allow coolant to flow from one side of the engine to the other, this bridge with a hollow interior allows coolant to flow. The oil soaked hoses are coolant lines, not oil lines. The oil is coming from somewhere in that area. My apologies for any confusion to gearheads working without manuals. When I searched for info in my manuals, I discovered my mistake in mixing the oil cooling system with the cooling system bridge.
GM consider's the rear and front intake manifolds part of the upper intake manifold. I wonder what the Junkyard will say about that if I can get this removed this morning.

I can now see the importance of a service manual.

Thank you fdryer for the information and the correction on the oil coolant bridge; also good to know.
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Old 04-11-2020, 08:06 AM   #316
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I despise misinformation and not averse to mistakes. If made aware as I lazily discovered when opening my manuals before anyone here could correct me, I'll correct any misinformation that was unintentional on my part.
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Old 04-11-2020, 09:17 AM   #317
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

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I despise misinformation and not averse to mistakes. If made aware as I lazily discovered when opening my manuals before anyone here could correct me, I'll correct any misinformation that was unintentional on my part.
Makes you good at what you do then!
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Old 04-11-2020, 09:20 AM   #318
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Eating a solid breakfast before going into battle. Round 3 at the Junkyard. Since the Upper Intake Manifold is near ready to pull (I believe just the EGR - I think that's what you all were calling it) -- I lined up my wrenches on those before packing my tool kit. If removing the front and rear intake manifold's and the EGR connectors then it should just come right off.

I will take pictures and hope it works out! I will try to get the PCV module also if it's easily available.

Yesterday was beautiful. Today is pouring rain. Wish me luck! Best of your days!

God speed!

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Old 04-11-2020, 10:41 AM   #319
Rj 2000 LS2
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Rj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really nice
 
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2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Fdryer - You are incorrect about having to remove the injector/intake to remove the PCV. I just did it and it was easy to remove. The rear runner and the upper throttle plenum is what need to be taken off which I referred to as runners and upper intake (mistakenly used a description of upper intake instead of throttle plenum... well excuse me!" The photos absolutely show the process and which items to remove. I didn't spend hours putting these photos and descriptions together to have it discounted as DIY misinformation! It is correct!
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Old 04-11-2020, 11:07 AM   #320
Rj 2000 LS2
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Rj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really nice
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 660

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Brandon, If you do get the PCV modular off the junk yard Saturn... do take the two attached hoses too. That one hose you took pictures of looks brand new!
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