SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2020, 02:01 PM   #1
BrandonKastning
Senior Member
BrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the rough
 
BrandonKastning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 1,495

2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Hello Saturn Experts,

I am not sure what exactly is happening and not certain anyone can point me in the right direction.

My car:

2001 Saturn L300 3.0L V6

2-3 days ago I was driving just fine and went to the store and came back. All was good. Then the next morning I was heading out quickly and didn't warm it up.

The oil was okay at this time, no leaks and properly filled.

Took off going maybe 25-30 MPH and made it maybe 2 blocks before the car died and wouldn't stay running after starting it.

I broke down on the side of the road and put my hazards on. I proceeded with the following steps (very amateur I know):

1) Tried starting it (starts then within seconds stops).

2) Checked under the hood; panicked and started putting more oil in.

3) Checked the fuses (thought the (L4) fuel injector fuse and (L4) AR fuse) was removed.

This resulted in me attempting to repair fuse mounts that didn't originally exist (based on a post forums/showthread dot php?t=180756 here by fdryer) who as usual, provides all sorts of awesome diagrams and advise.

I ended up walking home and grabbed paper clips to create a "fuse bridge"; jammed the paper clips into the fuse slots and pulled the radio 10AMP fuse + a spare 10AMP and attempted to try and get them to hold in there.

Attempted to start it again; to no avail, same results.

4) Called a Tow Truck, came back to my house and started troubleshooting it since.

Troubleshooting steps and what I have learned so far:

a) I over-filled the engine oil (the dipstick is showing overage) and without it running I cannot drive the car up onto Rhino Ramps. I do not know any other humans really, so I cannot ask for help and I do not have a jack and cannot afford one at the moment.

b) Pulled the "fuel pump" fuse and replaced it with the 15AMP spare as it was really burnt looking (the middle was okay though).

c) Attempted to follow the instructions here on this forums/showthread dot php?t=123627 thread to clear flooding after I attempted to pump the pedal maybe 10 times or so. Possibly in the upwards of 15.

Results of holding the pedal down and cranking to clear the engine of flooding:

- Started and the engine rev'ed up very high and then it dropped and stopped again.

Passlock security engaged and I attempted to use a jump box (350 AMP) to bypass passlock security (which I am used to doing when something glitches).

-- I never fully disabled it per forums/showthread dot php?t=235528 this thread on my old account which I lost access to and never fully completed it while I was homeless and since then.

Thanks a bunch as usual!

P.S - Still have a 1/2 tank of gas.

Happy New Years and God Bless,

Brandon
BrandonKastning is offline  
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-06-2020, 03:03 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,211
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Some imagination to jack up the car without a hydraulic jack would be using the spare tire scissor jack. On level ground or at least blocking wheels from moving on slight inclines, jack up the car, layer some lumber to build up as another safety to back up the jack and/or place the tire under the car next to the jack. In my youth, I made wooden ramps and placed the tire under the car for backup in case the ramp fell apart. Ramps never failed on old cars with steel bumpers. They were reliable for years, finally disassembled when a hydraulic jack replaced them. Old school meets new school.....

How many miles on this car? Fuel filter replaced every 100k miles? Spark plugs replaced every 100k miles? Is security always on, flashing quickly or off when starting? GMs Passlock security flashing (as opposed to blinking once every few second) during starting means injectors are disabled to prevent engine running. As long as security isn't flashing, you can continue troubleshooting this problem.

If fuses in the engine bay are fine, an easy way to determine whether this is a fuel or ignition problem would be spraying starting fluid into the throttle body. Removing the intake air tube, spray starting fluid into throttle. Either the engine fires up to indicate spark is working and the engine runs with temporary fuel or not (indicating loss of spark). No starting with starting fluid points to an ignition problem. Starting up seems to indicate spark isn't an issue with fuel a possibility (low fuel pressure, intermittent pump/pressure, strangled fuel filter, etc). Fuel pressure should be between 39-49 psi with a borrowed fuel pressure gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto.

Clearing a flooded engine requires holding throttle wide open (pumping the gas pedal doesn't work at all) during starting. This tells the ecm to stop injector operations while the starter is cranking the engine until any excess fuel is blown out, drying out the cylinders where spark can ignite what's left. Flooding imples plugs are soaked and wet plugs short out spark to aggravate flooded engine starting. A flooded engine only needs two or three starting cycles (approximately 5-10 seconds per starting cycle) to expel excess fuel from cylinders. Your descriptions doesn't seem to be about a flooded engine.

L300s use drive by wire throttle - no steel cable connecting pedal to throttle, all electronics. The electronic pedal sends signals to the ecm. The ecm commands throttle plate operation to the electric motor to open/close the throttle plate.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline  
Old 01-07-2020, 05:07 PM   #3
Rj 2000 LS2
Advanced Member
Rj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really nice
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 662

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Have you considered changing your Crank Position Sensor? We had one go bad intermittently over a few weeks time. When I took out the old one, there was metal stuck to the sensor. Put the new CPS in and it worked great.
Rj 2000 LS2 is offline  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:19 AM   #4
BrandonKastning
Senior Member
BrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the rough
 
BrandonKastning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 1,495

2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Have you considered changing your Crank Position Sensor? We had one go bad intermittently over a few weeks time. When I took out the old one, there was metal stuck to the sensor. Put the new CPS in and it worked great.
Rj 2000 LS2,

Thank you for sharing this possible solve with me. I wasn't aware of this sensor. I appreciate the good key!

- Brandon
BrandonKastning is offline  
Old 01-11-2020, 08:05 AM   #5
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,211
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I'm having trouble with sorting out that YouTube link. Possibly early morning fuzziness and no longer allowed to have any caffeinated fluids. I'll try later.

Whether using the car battery or jump box to startup, GMs Passlock security works in one of four modes. Off, on, blinking once every few seconds and flashing quickly. Flashing quickly with ignition on or off means security is actively enabled; Passlock disables injector operation - the car will never run without injectors operating from the ecm (which disabled it from the body control module detecting a theft or incorrect Passlock security sequence). Your main concern is whether or not security is flashing. Flashing security = injectors disabled preventing the engine from running. Any of the other three modes is inconsequential and does not affect engine starting/running.

Fuses are relatively simple to examine. Either they're blown with the center S curved fuse element missing with some burned black marks inside the see thru plastic housing or they're fine, intact with the S element visible. The two exterior blades may exhibit corrosion in the form of dark oxidation but rarely if ever burn marks. Blade fuses are difficult to remove due to mechanical engineering to create steadfast design in fuse holders to increase maximum electrical conductivity against weathering effects to erode electrical connections. Difficulty in removing fuses means the fuse holders are performing up to design standards to ensure electrical connectivity. Surface oxidation means little if you can see distinctive scrape marks on each blade, indicating mechanical contact between blade and pairs of metal teeth grabbing each blade.

While difficult to search these forums, there are snapshots of your engine fuse box and cover with embossed labeling inside the cover. If I'm not mistaken, the ecm is labeled for engine fuses. If you have your owner's manual, review it for information.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:13 PM   #6
BrandonKastning
Senior Member
BrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the rough
 
BrandonKastning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 1,495

2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

fdryer,

Thank you for clearing up that confusion regarding the Passlock Security mode(s).

After reviewing the Video again Passlock Security light remains off the entire time. (Regarding the YouTube link... I replaced "." with "dot") Since I cannot post links.

I took a picture of my overflow on the dipstick. I wanted to share it here since I have a feeling this is a major contribution to the Service Engine Light that is stuck on at the moment.

If this is true; do you think that my Spark Plugs have been jeopardized; or should I be fine since it starts to 1500 RPM's before it chokes out?

I am trying to decide if I need to replace my Spark Plugs before doing a full oil change with filter?

Thank you again!

~ Brandon Kastning
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _Screenshot from 2020-01-11 15-09-45.jpg (67.2 KB, 17 views)
BrandonKastning is offline  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:14 AM   #7
BrandonKastning
Senior Member
BrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the rough
 
BrandonKastning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 1,495

2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Some imagination to jack up the car without a hydraulic jack would be using the spare tire scissor jack. On level ground or at least blocking wheels from moving on slight inclines, jack up the car, layer some lumber to build up as another safety to back up the jack and/or place the tire under the car next to the jack. In my youth, I made wooden ramps and placed the tire under the car for backup in case the ramp fell apart. Ramps never failed on old cars with steel bumpers. They were reliable for years, finally disassembled when a hydraulic jack replaced them. Old school meets new school.....

How many miles on this car? Fuel filter replaced every 100k miles? Spark plugs replaced every 100k miles? Is security always on, flashing quickly or off when starting? GMs Passlock security flashing (as opposed to blinking once every few second) during starting means injectors are disabled to prevent engine running. As long as security isn't flashing, you can continue troubleshooting this problem.

If fuses in the engine bay are fine, an easy way to determine whether this is a fuel or ignition problem would be spraying starting fluid into the throttle body. Removing the intake air tube, spray starting fluid into throttle. Either the engine fires up to indicate spark is working and the engine runs with temporary fuel or not (indicating loss of spark). No starting with starting fluid points to an ignition problem. Starting up seems to indicate spark isn't an issue with fuel a possibility (low fuel pressure, intermittent pump/pressure, strangled fuel filter, etc). Fuel pressure should be between 39-49 psi with a borrowed fuel pressure gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto.

Clearing a flooded engine requires holding throttle wide open (pumping the gas pedal doesn't work at all) during starting. This tells the ecm to stop injector operations while the starter is cranking the engine until any excess fuel is blown out, drying out the cylinders where spark can ignite what's left. Flooding imples plugs are soaked and wet plugs short out spark to aggravate flooded engine starting. A flooded engine only needs two or three starting cycles (approximately 5-10 seconds per starting cycle) to expel excess fuel from cylinders. Your descriptions doesn't seem to be about a flooded engine.

L300s use drive by wire throttle - no steel cable connecting pedal to throttle, all electronics. The electronic pedal sends signals to the ecm. The ecm commands throttle plate operation to the electric motor to open/close the throttle plate.
fdryer,

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I am being overloaded with more things than I can count in my personal life, however I wanted to respond quickly due to gratitude and appreciate your time greatly.

I have taken a video of the starting problem as it currently sits.

The service engine light is stuck solid when starting and then turns off before it kills itself at 1500 RPM.

Afterwards the oil light goes solid red before turning off.

The video is on YouTube here: youtu dot be/3-e6K05dTn8

I was able to secure some emergency funds and purchased a Hydraulic Jack (Will arrive late next week). I have 1 x 2 Ton Jack stand and I am going to be picking up another one within a day or two hopefully.

I also picked up a Fuel Pressure Gauge, 5 Quarts of SAE 5W-30 oil, USB OBDII Dongle (However the Amazon reviews said it only works if the engine is started.)

I checked the fuses and when I pulled the fuel pump fuse, it looked scorched with black markings on the silver metal parts that are to be pushed into the fuse box.

I replaced the fuel pump 15A with a spare 15A that was in the fusebox and looked inside the Chilton Manual and it advised to listen for the fuel pump to start which I did hear in the video that I filmed. So that's good news on the fuel pump I am guessing.

Some other fuses look scorched also; however the inside part's are still connected. (So it appears they are good, but I am not certain).

I will have to purchase fuses to do a full panel replacement I am guessing along with a oil filter.

Regarding fuses, I am trying to find per the Chilton guide is for the "Powertrain Control Module (PCM)" -- I am not sure where to reference to find this fuse.

I have been swapping a few to determine if it is labeled something completely different since I cannot find anything close to that name.

I swapped the following so far:

- 15AM (BCM CLUSTER) -- GOOD
- 10A (BCM 2) -- GOOD

The one I haven't swapped yet is:

- 30A (IP BATT RT) -- NOT SURE YET - Don't have a replacement

I also haven't tried this one:

- 10A (CONTROLS B+) -- NOT SURE YET - Battery Died on me as per video

I don't remember if I tested this one:

- 10A (BCW ECM/ CRUISE) -- NOT SURE - I don't recall


Thank you again!


- Brandon
BrandonKastning is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
2001 l300, fuel, l300


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
98 Saturn won't stay running bankshot S-Series General 20 05-07-2015 04:09 PM
98 Saturn SL won't stay running bankshot General Saturn Discussion 1 04-09-2015 09:55 PM
94 Saturn SL2 will not stay running moresaturn S-Series Tech 22 05-23-2013 09:59 PM
Headlights stay on - 2001 l300 atomicsink L-Series Tech 2 12-20-2010 12:23 PM
02 L300 fuel pump/car won't stay running problem MustangKatie L-Series Tech 2 08-11-2005 10:02 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.