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Old 06-24-2022, 01:17 PM   #21
skamzmc
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Default Re: no start

Iím sorry. I meant to say my scanner will not delete codes. Only on the car used to it reset my other car to ensure my scanner is good
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Old 06-24-2022, 02:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: no start

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Originally Posted by skamzmc View Post
Iím sorry. I meant to say my scanner will not delete codes. Only on the car used to it reset my other car to ensure my scanner is good
I see, so you're not sure which code(s) might still be present?

I don't know if an auto store will do that for you or not, but might be worth a try to get somewhat of a clean slate.
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Old 06-24-2022, 04:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: no start

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Originally Posted by skamzmc View Post
Iím sorry. I meant to say my scanner will not delete codes. Only on the car used to it reset my other car to ensure my scanner is good
That is inconvenient.

Euro forums state most codes will clear by disconnecting the battery for a few hours. That would give you a fighting chance.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: no start

Fuel pressure holds at 55 psi, pressing the flow valve on the gauge it holds at 30 psi. Fuel pump will not always shut off, like when I first turn the key to on but trying to start. It should shut off after a couple seconds but it doesn't. Noid light was flashing when the car for whatever reason decided to start in limp mode. Then wouldn't start back up. Codes haven't changed. I did leave the battery disconnected over night
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: no start

I don't know if this means anything but I unplugged the exhaust side cam senor when it did start and nothing happened, I then unplugged the intake side and the motor dead.
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Old 06-25-2022, 06:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: no start

I flipped the cam sensors. Car did its random start. unplugged intake side again, it stalled. Tells me both sensors are good. As for CEL's they finally cleared with scan tool. Crankshaft sensor code is the only that came back.

Does the crank sensor need to be relearned?
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: no start

skamzmc, verifying zero fuel on plugs yet measuring 55 psi on the fuel rail narrows the problem to injectors.

Saturn S/L/and Vue models disable injector operation when factory Passlock is actively preventing a theft attempt. Ions disable the starting circuit; when security flashes, no starter operation. These models indicate flashing security. Normal standby security blinks. My L300 on occasion went into theft mode; flashing security while starting with the engine never firing up. Leaving ignition on for ten minutes until security stops flashing then cycling ignition switch off resets Passlock (Tamper Mode reset). Turning on ignition, security indicator off, starting up returns normal operation. Astras use Passkey, rfid chip in the key with the transponder in the steering column area.

The questions are; what indication of security mode occurs when Astras Passkey activates in a theft attempt, what part of the EFI system is disabled (injectors?, fuel pump?), would using a spare rfid key restore engine operation? GM service manuals have this info. Some online sites may have knowledgeable people to answer these questions (Repairpal, fixya, etc).
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: no start

No lights on dash indicating a that itís not recognizing the key. So pulled the battery out of the key fob. That should force a no key situation. The hazards lights flashed, as soon as I put the key in the ignition they stopped and the car turned over. Still no lights indicating no key.
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: no start

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Originally Posted by skamzmc View Post
So pulled the battery out of the key fob. That should force a no key situation. The hazards lights flashed, as soon as I put the key in the ignition they stopped and the car turned over. Still no lights indicating no key.
To test this assumption, we just pulled the battery out of the key fob 50 feet from the Astra. When we inserted the "batteryless-key" into the ignition, the Astra started fine, ran fine, and shifted into drive fine. No hazard lights or dash lights indicating any issues.

See Fred's comment on immobilizers above. I'm not convinced the immobilizer is preventing the injectors from working (why would the immobilizer power the starter, fuel pump, and coils but only lock out the fuel injectors?).

If you try some starting fluid into the throttlebody and the car runs, that shows sparks are properly timed and sufficiently powerful. That would help narrow down issues. At least you would have some confidence the crank and cam mechanical & electrical systems are working decently.
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Old 06-26-2022, 01:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: no start

If I'm not mistaken, your key fob has two functions; 1) the rfid chip for security and 2) buttons for door lock and trunk use. Removing the battery disables button use. The rfid chip on the circuit board operates without power from the ignition switch transponder xmitting a signal to the rfid chip to excite it into xmitting a signal the security system receives for either enabling or disabling the EFI system. The presence of the keyfob in the proximity of the ignition switch can be likened to a miniature radar system querying the keyfob rfid chip, exciting the chip to xmit a signal back to the transponder to decode the signal. No battery power is used.

When you state "as soon as I put the key in the ignition...the car turned over." Does this mean the engine started and car can be driven?

Owner's manual; https://my.gm.ca/gm/en/content/dam/g...nual_en_CA.pdf

Keyfob video (rfid chip identification@1:13); https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H389kjDPzrA
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Old 06-26-2022, 04:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: no start

No. Just turns over. With random a start up. When it does start the accelerator pedal does nothing. Your explanation of the key fob makes sense, thank you.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:54 PM   #32
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Default Re: no start

Ok, semantics gets in the way for me in terms of "no start" (no starter sounds or engine turns over but doesn't fire up) and "turns over" (engine fires up or starter runs but engine doesn't fire up).

Without service manual references, I'm treading on thin ice here. The immobilizer (rfid chip) circuitry is the silent guardian of Astras. Most Saturns I'm familiar with from Saturnfans forums always couple a security led (yellow) for a visual indication of Passlock security modes. As previously mentioned, my L300 flashes its security led in protest by disabling injector operation; starter turns over the engine but engine will not fire up since injectors are disabled. 'Tamper mode' reset requires leaving ignition on for ten minutes until the flashing led security light turns off, turn ignition off then restart, to drive away.

1- I don't know if your security indicator exhibits the same modes as Passlock. Yours is Passkey, not Passlock because Passkey is a better anti theft version of Passlock.

What's not known with this problem is, as I understand it, whether or not security is disabling the EFI system or something is wrong with the EFI system preventing injector operation. This presumes you verified spark, visually testing for spark across all spark plugs.

At this point of diy diagnosing and troubleshooting, it's very important to be as descriptive and technically specific as possible. Public message boards are rife with misinterpretations, semantics, unclear general descriptions, etc. Obviously, either you're able to save money from these forums in hopes of a solution or pay GM to find and fix it.

2- On one hand, if Astra security (indicator) isn't blinking, flashing, or remaining on permanently, this isn't helping with diagnosing this problem if you can't see a tell tale sign of whether or not security is causing this issue. In my personal opinion, its wiser to see an indicator for a tell tale sign of what security is doing as opposed to being blind while security is disabling part of the EFI system.

3- On the other hand, if your Astra security indicator is operating correctly (virtually all leds work for the lifetime of vehicles) then this suggests something in the EFI system is preventing injector operation; ecm/pcm, wiring, power, grounds, etc.

There's a difference between (2) security actively disabling injectors (if Astras do this) or (3) an issue exists beyond security. Service manuals can describe which way to proceed.
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:08 AM   #33
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Default Re: no start

By no start I mean, motor turns over great but will not start. It will however randomly start but it will run at high idle only and thatís it. The accelerator pedal does nothing at all. But the pedal checks out working the scanner.

After one of its random starts I noticed the negative battery terminal is to hot to touch. I cleaned all grounding wires I could find. It still gets crazy hot.
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Old 06-27-2022, 09:02 AM   #34
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I understand your descriptions. Battery negative terminal getting hot is a major concern now. The battery negative cable may be corroded under its heavy terminal insulation and should be disconnected for closer examination. If signs of corrosion occurred with dry or wet powdery deposits (bluish white), you might have to peel back insulation covering the terminal to see if the crimped cable is loose, missing copper wires. Battery acid from damaged side terminal batteries leach out into cables and slowly eats away copper wires. As battery acid dries, it leaves a powdery residue while humidity and moisture keep it actively corroding anything it comes into contact except insulation. Heating up battery connections indicates poor electrical connections. The starter draws to most current from a battery and the main reason battery cables are large gauge. Starting can draw anywhere from 50-150+ amps in the few seconds starters run. Loose/corroded main positive and negative connections resist current flow by heating up where current can't flow freely. If battery current can't flow then the charging system can't recharge efficiently. Left this way, a battery will lose its charge of the alternator can't recharge from poor battery connections. Electrical and electronic systems may suffer from poor power distribution of that negative battery connection.
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: no start

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Originally Posted by skamzmc View Post
After one of its random starts I noticed the negative battery terminal is to hot to touch. I cleaned all grounding wires I could find. It still gets crazy hot.
The Euro forums show some Astras with wire-clamp area corrosion, particularly under the insulation.

Unless you have the tools, just replace the battery negative cable with a high-quality cable. The lower resistance will reduce strain on the alternator and battery.

FYI - Below are some of the key (ground) points we cleaned to address a voltage drop issue; I don't think these are related to your fuel injector issue, however.

** G101 & G110 (under hood near fuse box/hood strut- needed to remove fuse box to access)

** G103, G105, G109 (under battery- needed to remove plastic battery tray. I think G103 was very heavy-duty.

** battery terminals and clamps

** Alternator terminals and connectors

** Starter terminals

** There are high amperage fuses near the battery; check the terminals too
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: no start

I cleaned them all. Going to replace the heavy gauge ones. I donít see any powder or signs of damage but like you said could be up in the insulation somewhere. Probably going to have it tow somewhere for repair. Thinking Iíve done everything I can do in the driveway. I will post though when it does get fixed with a detail report on what was the problem
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Old 06-28-2022, 07:13 PM   #37
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Virtually every battery cable corrosion (bluish white powdery deposits) connection problem are resolved by dissolving/neutralizing with a solution of water and baking soda using a toothbrush. Severe corrosion eats copper strands leaving crimped terminals loose. Leaking battery acid can work its way further into battery cables via capillary action but there haven't been any reports of this. If deposits aren't seen on battery cable connections to battery but terminals are hot from engine running, poor electrical connections, faulty battery and/or output current from alternator are possible issues. Standby battery voltage should be around 12.5vdc. Engine idling, 14.5vdc as the alternator always outputs higher than battery voltage to recharge it after every engine start while supplying all the electrical needs of a vehicle. Higher than 15vdc would be cause for concern. Voltage measurements are usually from battery posts.

If you correct this problem, it may or may not correct issues already discussed.
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:16 PM   #38
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Default Re: no start

Quote:
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Probably going to have it tow somewhere for repair.
You might try pinging the Euro forums; their cars are slightly different but not by much.

- Provide a summary of the problems and what you did / replaced so far. And if any replaced parts are OEM or discount brand. These cars are hyper sensitive to discount electronics so keep that in mind.

- Euros call this the Astra H (or Astra Mk V).

- Our models are similar to the Astra SRi models in Europe (we have the z18xer engine & F17 manual transmission, Euros might have a 6-speed transmission).

https://www.astraownersnetwork.co.uk/forums/astra-h.10/

https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co...-cars-area.83/

Good luck.
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Old 06-29-2022, 04:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: no start

Installed new ground for engine to body. Negative terminal not getting hot now. So check that one off.
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Old 06-29-2022, 05:26 PM   #40
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Default Re: no start

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Installed new ground for engine to body. Negative terminal not getting hot now. So check that one off.
That is helpful - thanks for posting that fix!
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