2002 SL-2 5spd won't start

[Kellyam]

I realize for sure that it may be the starter. Just don't want to believe it cuz it's pricey I will look at the battery cables, connections, etc. I will hit the starter with a stick LOL, and I might start a journal describing how long between starts/etc. Definitely needs a tune-up, though from what I've seen on here, doesn't seem like that is the root cause of the issue, though I'm sure it isn't helping.

[Kellyam]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

sorry, I wasn't clear... what I'm trying to figure out is, did the starter have time to cool off before the car started again? When my starter was dying, it would take 20~40 minutes to cool off, then it would start fine again. Started perfectly every morning when it was cold. Would start fine after really short trip, because it never heated up.

Not sure what you mean by "3 or 4 rotations" - you mean the engine would crank 3 or 4 times but not start?

Sorry, thought I was being smaht by using the term "rotations"- I can't remember what my uncle said, it was something like when you run the codes in a car, and they go away, if they come back in a certain number of... oh wait I think the term is "cycles"??

So I meant, it started up fine 3 times over the course of 6 hours, then wouldn't start.

[TXSaturn02]

Originally Posted by Kellyam

Also it makes a quiet almost like a breath exhalation "put-put" sometimes and the engine shimmies, and this has been this way (not consistently of course) since I bought it. It does this that I know of while at a standstill, idling in 1st usually. She's trying to tell me something but I can't figure it out!

I don't think this particular issue is related to the starter - separate issue, if you ask me. The more you wait to address an issue, the more others can come up which make diagnosis tougher.

[Kellyam]

K I just finished reading over the new or returning saturn owners checklist (which is AWESOME BTW). I'm wondering about the temp gauge (ECTS). My temp gauge always hovers around 1/4, and only reaches almost 1/2 when it's been running for awhile and it's very hot out. Is that normal?

[fdryer]

Ebay or dbelectrical.com seems to be the lowest cost starter replacement if you don't mind waiting.

Your '02 has the correct brass coolant sensor so the most likely culprit of a fluctuating temperature gauge needle is most likely a worn out thermostat. Replace it along with new coolant if its due.

[J.W.]

With ANY auto electrical problem...FIRST - Clean BOTH battery cables at the battery, and the battery terminals. ALWAYS !
It is cheap, easy, and quick. It will also surprise you much of the time !
JW

[Signmaster]

Originally Posted by Kellyam

Also it makes a quiet almost like a breath exhalation "put-put" sometimes and the engine shimmies, and this has been this way (not consistently of course) since I bought it. It does this that I know of while at a standstill, idling in 1st usually. She's trying to tell me something but I can't figure it out!

It sounds like maybe you have a misfire of some sort. If your friend has the tools, checking out the spark plugs is one of the primary causes of this, and they are cheap and easy to replace. $8-$10 will often smooth things out, give you more power, and help MPG.


But I have to admit, when I saw you say this...

Originally Posted by Kellyam

Also it makes a quiet almost like a breath exhalation "put-put" sometimes .......

... it made me laugh. I'm getting older, smoked for many years, and I still don't make any "put-put" sounds when I exhale. Well except for maybe when I was a little kid, and they went something like this.....

Insanity Test

[Kellyam]

Originally Posted by Signmaster

... it made me laugh. I'm getting older, smoked for many years, and I still don't make any "put-put" sounds when I exhale. Well except for maybe when I was a little kid, and they went something like this.....

Oops I meant to write "putt putt" like a sputter.

Anyhoo, I know I shouldn't have, dont' worry I didn't let them touch anything, but I went to VIP and had them run the diag test on the battery. They said my starter was going/gone. Then today my friend says, they can't test the starter without taking it out. Haven't been able to clean the cables yet as I don't have a lift, but I'm wheedling at my friend to get her to have her husband help me, possibly this weekend (I hope). Sunday friend coming to do tune-up. Tonight possibly serp belt replacement. VIP was like, it is all cracked, and I looked, and it was/is.

Didn't drive the car at all on Sunday after having to jump it every time for Thurs/Fri/Sat. Then yesterday at noon, started up fine. Started up 4 times fine yesterday, and twice so far today. I keep vascillating back and forth between it's the starter, or it's a connection issue. I will do the cheapest/free things first. Then worry about a starter. Thanks again for all of your help on here. Don't kick me out for going to VIP, OK?!

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by Kellyam

Then today my friend says, they can't test the starter without taking it out.

correct. probably what VIP did is tested the battery, and since the battery tested OK, guessed it was the starter. It can be expensive when other people guess

Haven't been able to clean the cables yet as I don't have a lift

I might have missed it, but are we talking about the battery cables? You can reach those (or at least most of it) from the top.

Tonight possibly serp belt replacement. VIP was like, it is all cracked, and I looked, and it was/is.

There's a good video on belt replacement. On the Saturn, it's probably a 1/2 hour job for a beginner. Frankly, most of the time will be spent removing the tire and jacking the car up. the actual belt replacement is like 5 minutes. Easiest car I've ever replaced a belt on. If it's not too badly cracked and stretched, should be ok for a while.

Didn't drive the car at all on Sunday after having to jump it every time for Thurs/Fri/Sat. Then yesterday at noon, started up fine. Started up 4 times fine yesterday, and twice so far today.

Engine hot or cold when it started/failed?

I will do the cheapest/free things first.

Always a good plan

Don't kick me out for going to VIP, OK?!

Saturnfans is not that kind of site

you may want to put a general location in your profile... might be someone nearby who can take a look, loan tools, etc. I pretty much have zero time these days, but willing to let you borrow my jack, stands, etc

[Kellyam]

K this is what the EXP800 at VIP says about my battery/starter:

"Results
Good Recharge
Voltage: 12.55V
Measured: 541 CCA
Rated: 650 CCA
Temperature: 95F

Battery is Good but Low on Charge. Fully Charge Battery.

Starter Test
Results
Cranking Skipped
Voltage: 0.00V
Time: 0ms

Starter Profile Not Detected.
Starter Test Skipped.

Charging System Test
Results
No Problems
No Load: 14.22V
Loaded: 14.13V
Ripple 57mV
Charging System Output Test Normal"

Did they actually test my starter???

[el diablo viejo]

Sounds like they " skipped " it.
Until you find someone who has basic knowledge of diagnostics and can then report the results back here this will continue to be a guessing game. Or if you have a few extra bucks you can buy a starter at www.dbelectrical.com for $ 50 and have someone install it. This will then eliminate one piece of the puzzle.

[fdryer]

Originally Posted by Kellyam

K this is what the EXP800 at VIP says about my battery/starter:

Starter Test
Results
Cranking Skipped
Voltage: 0.00V
Time: 0ms

Starter Profile Not Detected.
Starter Test Skipped.

Did they actually test my starter???

Nope. If there is a starter test that can differentiate between a new one from a worn one, I personally would like the pdf, printout, equipment name/model and literature so I can Google it online and participate in becoming more informed about starter troubleshooting otherwise there are no definitive tests that anyone or anything can perform to tell the difference between a new one or old one. Nothing. Experienced people well aware of how starters work and how they wear out will ask car mileage, whether car is driven locally with frequent stops or twice for the daily commute to/from a job, whether or not other people use this car frequently, etc.. There are no statistics to tell anyone how long a starter will last or when they fail. No one. As long as a starter passes new car warranty, its all free after that until it fails. Long term ownership implies long term wear and tear on parts either ignored or forgotten about until problems pop up out of nowhere; batteries, starters, alternators, a/c systems.

As mentioned by another member, power is the first consideration requiring everything before a starter to be in clean, good operating condition; battery, battery cables, their connections on both ends. Since your VIP report appears to show the power system is in good operating condition, the starter remains as the most likely problem. Starters can fail in as little as 70k miles or after 250k miles. Frequent short trip driving wears out a starter due to several starts in a day while long commutes to a job and back home with only two starts shows a starter lasting well beyond mileage when most cars are traded in, leaving someone else with the problem of long term wear and tear items that eventually wear out.

[Kellyam]

You guys ROCK
Thank you

[rodriguezsa]

I am having a similar problem with my 2002 sl2, but I have a new battery, a new alternator, and I replaced the starter about 5 months ago. The car is behaving as if the starter is bad, just a click from the starter when I try to turn it over, but I took it to the auto parts place, where I bought it, to have it tested and they have told me it is good. What do I do next?

[rodriguezsa]

Originally Posted by Kellyam

I realize for sure that it may be the starter. Just don't want to believe it cuz it's pricey I will look at the battery cables, connections, etc. I will hit the starter with a stick LOL, and I might start a journal describing how long between starts/etc. Definitely needs a tune-up, though from what I've seen on here, doesn't seem like that is the root cause of the issue, though I'm sure it isn't helping.

I am having a similar problem with my 2002 sl2, but I have a new battery, a new alternator, and I replaced the starter about 5 months ago. The car is behaving as if the starter is bad, just a click from the starter when I try to turn it over, but I took it to the auto parts place, where I bought it, to have it tested and they have told me it is good. What do I do next?

[fdryer]

Read post #32. If you ensure the battery, battery cables, their connections are clean and in good condition, the starter is faulty. The battery can be tested at most auto stores but you have to examine cables and their connections carefully for severe corrosion, under the heavy insulation to be sure a previous battery didn't leak acid into cable lugs and eat away copper wires. If you are assured both battery cables and their connections (to engine and chassis ground too) and battery are good, replace the starter.

[billr]

Just a click and no other sound, no engine cranking or faint whir of an electric motor turning? As always, no-crank problems are best tracked down starting at the famous "purple wire"...

Also, I have found that part-store testing of starters is meaningless. Good ones can test "bad", bad ones can test "good"!