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Old 12-25-2008, 07:25 PM   #1
UONAI
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Default IDS+ and Sport Button

Saturn Astra doesn't have them, rite?
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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Originally Posted by UONAI View Post
Saturn Astra doesn't have them, rite?
Huh?
what R U talkin about?
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

Opel Astra has the IDS+, it integrates ABS, ESP and active damping. Senses changes in vehicle dynamics and adjusts damper rates in real time. Gives more comfort, sharper handling and reduced body roll. When you push the sport button, IDS+ enabled the sport mode and you get a harder suspension.

I am not sure if we have it here.

Last edited by UONAI; 12-25-2008 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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Most Opel Astras have the IDS+, it integrates ABS, ESP and active damping. Senses changes in vehicle dynamics and adjusts damper rates in real time. Gives more comfort, sharper handling and reduced body roll. When you push the sport button, IDS+ enabled the sport mode and you get a harder suspension.

I am not sure if we have it here.
So if it is so vague to begin with, and the fact that Astras sold in the US AREN'T Opel (but Saturn's), why should we care?
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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Originally Posted by UONAI View Post
Opel Astra has the IDS+, it integrates ABS, ESP and active damping. Senses changes in vehicle dynamics and adjusts damper rates in real time. Gives more comfort, sharper handling and reduced body roll. When you push the sport button, IDS+ enabled the sport mode and you get a harder suspension.

I am not sure if we have it here.
You are correct, sir. We don't have that feature here. There were a number of things that didn't make the "leap across the ocean". This is one of them. I suspect that the automatic dampers are gawdawful expensive to replace.

The sport suspension on the XR has shorter springs with slightly higher spring rates, and larger bars. This contributes significantly to the roll stiffness, both in transition and steady-state cornering. This does much of what the IDS does electronically. The down side is that you can't select "couch", "sporty", and "track day" settings.

The bottom line here is the perception of the Astra in America. Because of it's size and format ( 3 dr & 5dr), it's marketed as an entry level Saturn. In Europe, the Astra is not an entry level car, but significantly higher up the ladder.

The benefit of this to Americans is that we get a relatively high level of standard equipment on the car compared to some other comparable U.S. brands.
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Last edited by SaturnRaycer; 12-25-2008 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 11:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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You are correct, sir. We don't have that feature here. There were a number of things that didn't make the "leap across the ocean". This is one of them. I suspect that the automatic dampers are gawdawful expensive to replace.

The sport suspension on the XR has shorter springs with slightly higher spring rates, and larger bars. This contributes significantly to the roll stiffness, both in transition and steady-state cornering. This does much of what the IDS does electronically. The down side is that you can't select "couch", "sporty", and "track day" settings.

The bottom line here is the perception of the Astra in America. Because of it's size and format ( 3 dr & 5dr), it's marketed as an entry level Saturn. In Europe, the Astra is not an entry level car, but significantly higher up the ladder.
The benefit of this to Americans is that we get a relatively high level of standard equipment on the car compared to some other comparable U.S. brands.
I beg to differ. In Europe it is a regular run of the mill car, kinda like a chevy here.
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Old 12-26-2008, 03:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

Don't confuse entry level and run of the mill. There are smaller, less expensive cars below the Astra, just as there are a wide variety of price points in Chevrolet, from the Aveo to the Impala.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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I beg to differ. In Europe it is a regular run of the mill car, kinda like a chevy here.

True , but a Chevy with higher quality and better styling . Can't really compare an Astra to a Cavalier .
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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True , but a Chevy with higher quality and better styling . Can't really compare an Astra to a Cavalier .
Or a Civic, or a Corolla, or a Fit, or a Versa, or a xD or a Yaris and the list goes on and on. Drove 'em all and zero comparison.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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Don't confuse entry level and run of the mill. There are smaller, less expensive cars below the Astra, just as there are a wide variety of price points in Chevrolet, from the Aveo to the Impala.
Regardless, the Astra is a entry-level car in Europe. The price of its base version is competitive with other compacts, and much lower than premium cars in its segment. Looking at the French Opel website, the base Astra (Enjoy model with 1.4L engine) is sold for a MSRP of 17 190 euros TTC (meaning after taxes equaling 19,6% of the price) before taxes it would be 14 373 euros, but they claim with discounts the price falls to 13 560 Euros. In comparison, the Cobalt has a MSRP of 15 660$, with the varying exchange rate, comparisons are hard to make precise, but it appears that both have similar opening prices.

But let's compare with a premium compact in Europe, the Volvo C30 for instance, its base version according to the French Volvo website is 20 550 with a 1.6L gas engine. That's more than 3 000 more than the Astra, 20% more actually. Quite a bit of difference.

Of course there are Astras at a much greater price-point, that's typically European to equip their compact cars way better than this side of the Atlantic, because they believe you don't have to be in a big car to have all the luxuries in a car. The fact that there are Astras that sell for a lot more doesn't change the fact that the Astra is basically GM's Cobalt in Europe: same platform, similar base price, similarly popular in rental companies, similarly discounted, etc...
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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Regardless, the Astra is a entry-level car in Europe. The price of its base version is competitive with other compacts, and much lower than premium cars in its segment. Looking at the French Opel website, the base Astra (Enjoy model with 1.4L engine) is sold for a MSRP of 17 190 euros TTC (meaning after taxes equaling 19,6% of the price) before taxes it would be 14 373 euros, but they claim with discounts the price falls to 13 560 Euros. In comparison, the Cobalt has a MSRP of 15 660$, with the varying exchange rate, comparisons are hard to make precise, but it appears that both have similar opening prices.

But let's compare with a premium compact in Europe, the Volvo C30 for instance, its base version according to the French Volvo website is 20 550 with a 1.6L gas engine. That's more than 3 000 more than the Astra, 20% more actually. Quite a bit of difference.

Of course there are Astras at a much greater price-point, that's typically European to equip their compact cars way better than this side of the Atlantic, because they believe you don't have to be in a big car to have all the luxuries in a car. The fact that there are Astras that sell for a lot more doesn't change the fact that the Astra is basically GM's Cobalt in Europe: same platform, similar base price, similarly popular in rental companies, similarly discounted, etc...
true. After all, in europe small cars are much more common than here, because of space, generally lower salaries, expensive gas, and people understanding that SUVs suck. So companies know what to do with them.
I've been saying this from the 1st day the Astra came out here. The Astra is one or two steps up for Saturn, but it's still an Opel. Here you read of people comparing it to BMWs and Audis and someone tried that with a Ferrari.
Being amazed by it just proves what kind of ****ty small cars we've been offered in the past in this country.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: IDS+ and Sport Button

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true. After all, in europe small cars are much more common than here, because of space, generally lower salaries, expensive gas, and people understanding that SUVs suck. So companies know what to do with them.
I've been saying this from the 1st day the Astra came out here. The Astra is one or two steps up for Saturn, but it's still an Opel. Here you read of people comparing it to BMWs and Audis and someone tried that with a Ferrari.
Being amazed by it just proves what kind of ****ty small cars we've been offered in the past in this country.
I disagree that the small cars available in North America are as bad as you claim. They are simply tailored to the needs and wants of the people here, meaning that they typically have much stronger engines (100-120 hp in compact-sized car is typical in Europe, here the Cobalt comes standard with a 155-hp engine, the Focus with a 140-hp engine and the Caliber comes with either a 148-hp or 158-hp engine depending on transmission), transmissions that are geared for cruising at low RPMs, suspensions tuned for comfort and that are more basic in the gadget area. North Americans believe that if you have enough cash to demand luxury items in your cars, the first thing you should "upgrade" is the size of the car, that's why BMW, Audi and other carmakers with premium compacts don't bring them here, they know they just wouldn't sell. Look at the Astra's horrible sales record, most people keep protesting that it's overpriced... it's not, it's just well equipped. If you equip a car from a competitor with the same equipment the Saturn Astra comes with, and the price for the two is basically equal. On another thread, I tested the Nissan Sentra, not a car known for being pricy, and equipped similarly, both had roughly the same price. The Astra only seems overpriced because you can't get a base model without trip computer, without power windows, without power locks, without automatic headlights, without rainsensing wipers, without cruise control, without ABS, without side airbags.

Let's add up a little, trip computer typically costs about 500$ (typically bundled with other goodies in option packs of more than 1000$), ABS, 500$, power everything typically comes in a higher trim, themselves alone typically cost about 2000$, side airbags, 500$, most cars come with 15-inch tires instead of the standard 16 on the Astra, add another 500$. That's 4 000$ worth of equipment that come standard on the Astra but often are optional on other compacts.
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