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Old 06-28-2020, 05:34 PM   #1
Kaervak
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1999 SL2
Default I got stung today...........

Not by a bumble bee though, this one is a yellow jacket to its core.


2001 SC2 with 185k, bought it as a crank no start, and now it's completely dead. Should be a fun time figuring out what's up. On the plus side, I can easily make my money back in parts if it's too far gone.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:32 PM   #2
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1994 SL2
Default Re: I got stung today...........

I had a crank-no-start from a jumped timing chain due to the chain guides being worn away and the chain stretched.

But it could be a crank position sensor or ignition module or fuel pump.

You can tell the chain jump, because it wont sound right when you crank it over.

The other three; the cranking sounds good, but no start.

Check the cranking "sound", spark at the plugs, pulse at the injectors. If all is well there, it's likely the pump.

A slipped timing chain will require a replacement head or valves. Been there, done that. Junkyard head fixed it.

Preston
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Bumble Bee was attacked and shot at several times, disabling him but never killing him. If you're gonna' call yours bumble bee then it must be resurrected to live on. Since you're not in possession of ALL Spark, aka the Cube, you're left to resort to Saturnfans, past threads and your skills to bring your bumble bee back to life.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Not to brag - but I got 2 of those...


..

..

Ok
.

I am bragging.


Oh...

And both run..

...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:14 AM   #5
Kaervak
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1999 SL2
Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonIII View Post
I had a crank-no-start from a jumped timing chain due to the chain guides being worn away and the chain stretched.

But it could be a crank position sensor or ignition module or fuel pump.

You can tell the chain jump, because it wont sound right when you crank it over.

The other three; the cranking sounds good, but no start.

Check the cranking "sound", spark at the plugs, pulse at the injectors. If all is well there, it's likely the pump.

A slipped timing chain will require a replacement head or valves. Been there, done that. Junkyard head fixed it.

Preston


It sounded normal during cranking when I looked at it last week, that's the only reason I decided to buy it. The story from the previous owner was the belt tensioner failed while driving. Replaced belt and tensioner and it wouldn't start. My guess is the CPS or it's wiring took a hit when the tensioner/belt grenaded. Verified fuel, did not verify spark though. I'm going to pull the valve cover and check timing in the morning. I pulled the battery to charge it, popped a jumper pack in it's place and there's absolutely no power now. Hooray for faulty wiring, gotta track down where the fault is. Or it was just a shoddy connection from the jumper packs, either way gonna be a fun little project to work on.





Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Bumble Bee was attacked and shot at several times, disabling him but never killing him. If you're gonna' call yours bumble bee then it must be resurrected to live on. Since you're not in possession of ALL Spark, aka the Cube, you're left to resort to Saturnfans, past threads and your skills to bring your bumble bee back to life.

It will live again, I see too many perfectly serviceable Saturns in the junkyard to let this one suffer the same fate.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
Not to brag - but I got 2 of those...


..

..

Ok
.

I am bragging.


Oh...

And both run..

You missed one - must be slipping.

Looks good Kaervak!
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:11 AM   #7
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Sad Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
You missed one - must be slipping.

Looks good Kaervak!
Two...

There is one for sale in Wisconsin....

...

I just don't have any more garage space...
...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
98 SL2
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:35 PM   #8
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1999 SL2
Default Re: I got stung today...........

The engine didn't jump time. All the timing marks line up perfectly, the chain looks good with minimal "stretch" too. The compression felt fine while cranking by hand, but a proper compression test will be done once I get the power issue taken care of. Oil on the dipstick is clean, no milkshake, no fuel smell either which makes me kinda suspect a fuel issue. The coolant reservoir is clean too. It badly needs a valve cover gasket and a date with some degreaser, oil everywhere.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:50 AM   #9
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1998 SL2
Default Re: I got stung today...........

Nice project.

I never find any good ones, pretty sure onlinebiker buys them all before I get a chance to look
...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Nice project.

I never find any good ones, pretty sure onlinebiker buys them all before I get a chance to look
If you want a yellow one - here you go......

https://madison.craigslist.org/pts/d...129901177.html
...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
98 SL2
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:52 PM   #11
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2001 SL1
Default Re: I got stung today...........

Car has new "breaks", seller is not familiar with spelling the English language.
Worse is that they don't even realize the error.
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
Car has new "breaks", seller is not familiar with spelling the English language.
Worse is that they don't even realize the error.
It could be right...

The frame just broke. That's new.
The windshield just broke. That also is new.....


...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
98 SL2
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
I just don't have any more garage space...
Didn't you just sell a couple?
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Didn't you just sell a couple?
Yup. The 92 and the 97.
...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
98 SL2
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post
If you want a yellow one - here you go......

https://madison.craigslist.org/pts/d...129901177.html
Thanks, but WI is a bit far for me to drive. If I'm going that far for an old Saturn, I'd go south first

Also need to get rid of a couple of cars before adding one more. Driveway is about maxed right now, any more and it'll get really inconvenient to move around.
...
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11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:33 PM   #16
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1999 SL2
Default Re: I got stung today...........

Well, it runs, not well, but it's not dead so that's a plus. I pulled the upstream O2 sensor and it started and stayed running. Throttle response was pretty good, didn't bog or stumble terribly. It's a Cali emissions car so it has the AIR pump and precat garbage on it. I'm guessing it's heavily clogged/restricted as when I put the O2 sensor back in and it did run, but throttle response was terrible and it died after I floored it. It wouldn't restart either. My compression tester must be off as the cylinder readings were way too low. 75 for cylinder 1 and 125 for 2, 3 and 4. Or the clogged cat was screwing with it, either way, I'm gonna run another test with a new gauge after I deal with the cats.


There's hope for this *****box yet, I'm only in it for $300 so I can probably break even on selling parts/having spares and scrapping the shell. I do want to get it running though, I like a challenge.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaervak View Post
Well, it runs, not well, but it's not dead so that's a plus. I pulled the upstream O2 sensor and it started and stayed running. Throttle response was pretty good, didn't bog or stumble terribly. It's a Cali emissions car so it has the AIR pump and precat garbage on it. I'm guessing it's heavily clogged/restricted as when I put the O2 sensor back in and it did run, but throttle response was terrible and it died after I floored it. It wouldn't restart either. My compression tester must be off as the cylinder readings were way too low. 75 for cylinder 1 and 125 for 2, 3 and 4. Or the clogged cat was screwing with it, either way, I'm gonna run another test with a new gauge after I deal with the cats.


There's hope for this *****box yet, I'm only in it for $300 so I can probably break even on selling parts/having spares and scrapping the shell. I do want to get it running though, I like a challenge.


If it hasn't been run lately - low compression test is common.. After it has run a bit retry test.
...
Currently owned
93 SC2 M(anual)
96 SC2 M
98 SL2 A(uto)
99 SC2 A
01 SC2 A
01 SC2 M
02 SC2 M
02 SL2 A
02 SL2 M
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.
98 SL2
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Well, either the manifold cat was clogged or the AIR passages were such a bottleneck that it caused the no start and poor running. I pulled the exhaust manifold today and ran a bunch of brake cleaner, degreaser and seafoam through the manifold cat (yeah I know, not the greatest idea, but it worked). Also cleaned the manifold passages as those were pretty carboned up. Someone had been tinkering with the manifold and AIR setup before as there are missing fasteners, seems this car has had this issue before. After putting everything back together, the car started without issue. No hesitation when giving throttle like before and it restarts without issue. Cylinder 1 is definitely low on compression though, you can feel the difference when it's running. I pulled the plugs again and am letting some MMO soak overnight (probably won't do jack though) Cylinder 1's plug was wet and oily while the rest were dry. Can't expect too much from a $300, 8 prior owner car. If the MMO doesn't do anything, I'm not gonna bother with a rebuild, just run it till it dies. Its been fun figuring out what's wrong with it.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Here is how I cleaned out my precat.

Primary tool was a screwdriver.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: I got stung today...........

Well, the MMO soak must have actually done something. The compression in cylinder 1 is now 125PSI like the rest. They're all still low compared to what they should be, but I'll take it. The P0300 code hasn't come back either and I'm not seeing any cylinder 1 misfires through my Autel anymore. The AIR system is working without issue, I had one of the vacuum lines disconnected and didn't realize it which was causing a code for it. Only code I now have is one for the EGR valve. Undoubtedly it needs a thorough cleaning to decarbon it. So, the only parts I'll currently be buying for it are a valve cover gasket, crank seal and top engine mount and maybe a new flex pipe. The rest of the issues with the car I'm not going to go nuts over, it runs and drives and will serve its purpose as a $300 beater car.


All in all, another S-series saved from the boneyard.
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