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Old 09-06-2018, 03:26 PM   #1
PaulGraz
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Decision time - LW200

Our LW200 has been the most reliable car I've ever owned. But it's coming up on 260K miles and needs a few things. Honestly I'm impressed some things on the car have lasted this long!

I'm totally on the fence on whether or not to keep it. It's primarily a winter car now, so if it's going to get used over another winter for my wife's commute, I have to start getting it in shape now.

Here's what it needs:
  • I suspect it will need a new exhaust, it's getting noisy and I see 2 hangers have rusted away
  • It will probably need front brakes (I can do those)
  • Since my mechanic replaced the blower motor, it leaks when it rains
  • The drivers seat has collapsed (but I think I can fix that)
  • Rear bushings are real noisy
  • Front struts are original but rear shocks were replaced
  • Rust bubbling has started on the left rear at the seam behind the rear wheel
  • A/C died years ago

It's really that first item that it stuck in my head. I estimate $600-800 to get that job done. (WAG)

If I try to sell the car, there's not much value to anyone else - I figure I'd get maybe $500-600?

So - let's hear opinions - should it stay or should it go?
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:16 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Whether to keep a car is either an emotional decision or a financial equation or both. I think for you it's likely just a financial equation.

I don't think it is ever, "well here's how much I have to put into it and afterwards, what is it worth?"

I think it is more "how much have I put into it and if I rid of it, how much do I have to spend to stay where I am or be ahead". I suspect to replace will involve 3 zero's plus a number at the front!

My son has a 2003 L300 (150K miles), which I am working on right now and we go through the same questioning process as altough we are Florida, the Satty came from up North complete with rust . His brother's never been out of Florida 2002 SL2 (150K miles) has been brilliant and cost me very little in 6 years of him having it. The L300 on the other hand has been heavy on the wallet. i wouldn't go as far as to say a money pit, but still a chunk of change replacing stuff ruined by rust.

His drivers cloth seat began to wear out and I found a complete leather interior for $150.00 at the JY, so his seat was replaced and I believe that has added value to the car. Certainly looks a nicer place inside.

I just replaced his front calipers, pads, rotors and flex coupling along with all new metal lines front and rear. I can't do lines, so my indi garage did them. Cheap materials, but labor charges hit me. Using RA, the parts came to about $200.00 with the metal lines jobs adding another $500.00. If I could have done the latter, I would have saved that amount.

I have just this week been pricing out struts front & back for him and from RA it comes out to $377.00 including shipping. I could do quick struts and save myself some time, but that adds more dollars. Time is something I have plenty of.

His rear end bangs and clatters and I reckon his bushings have bitten the dust. There are 2 'rose' bushes on each side and a large donut one on each of the trailing arms. You can get those from Europe by ordering Vectra B (the L series is a Vectra B underneath) for around $64.00 including shipping. You need a special tool to remove replace the rose bushes and you can get that kit from a vendor in CA for $45.00. So again, not a lot of cost for parts.

The exhaust is clearly the biggie and the only suggestion I can make is get it inspected and see where the wear is. You could be looking at just a muffler? There is a you tube by a guy called Chargermiles (Canadian) who details his efforts at the bushes and his comments at the size of the rear muffler. His suggestion is find a cheapo muffler and have that welded on instead of the regular Saturn big size.

As for the AC, if you are only using it in the winter, then you can pass on that.

On the rear seam rust, that needs inspecting and determining if it is repairable or terminal. If it is the latter, don't bother with anything else and just say bye.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:33 PM   #3
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Thanks - all good points.

I just took a 130 miles drive in the old girl. To add to the above there's a moderate vibration between 60-70mph. I've already had these tires rebalanced 3 times trying to get rid of it, and on the 3rd time the guys claims it's due to a bent rim. Hmmm

IF we get rid of this car we probably wont replace it. As you can see from my signature, we have a Volvo V50 which is a slightly smaller wagon.

I considered looking for a more low mileage LW to replace it, but I don't want a V6 model. And I think they stopped using the 4cyl well before the car was dropped from the line. I suppose maybe I'd consider a 4cyl Vue, but most of those have a V6 too.

In addition to winter beater duty, she's also our "hauler" and spare car for when one of the others in in the shop. I guess we have to figure out if it's worth it to have a 3rd car like that.

But yeah, step one is going to be to have my mechanic give it a good once over and make a list of how much I would have to spend.
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:47 PM   #4
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

260k miles is a good use out of a car, and I am happy for you that she made it this far. In my opinion, a car like that is a difficult sell. With high mileage and its age, it deters people looking cars. Its good as a winter beater, which is what you're using it for. Since you plan on replacing it with another L series, why don't you keep this old one as a parts car? I am not sure if its doable in your circumstances, but it would be a good option.

The drivers seat collapsing happened on mine with just 148k miles. Its doable if you don't mind a bit of jury rigging to keep it steady. I had a thread detailing this which can be found by clicking on my profile.

One last thing. If you do plan on sending your car to the scrapper, PLEASE consider taking off the exterior appliques and saving them. They're near impossible to find at junkyards and new old stock is 50 bucks. I'd pay good money for a pair of them.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

I absolutely cannot keep it as a parts car - no space.

That's another factor that I didn't mention. This car is parked on the street, as our 2 daily drivers go in the driveway. When it snows, I have to cram all 3 cars into the driveway or it's a $250 fine. I can do it, but it's a royal pain. So that's another point towards getting rid of it and not replacing it at all.

But if I do decide to scrap it, I'll offer to remove parts for people here - why not? As long as it can still be driven the 5-6 miles to where I would scrap it.
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:59 PM   #6
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Here you go...

A 2003 LW200 4 pot model with just 61K miles on it. Given the decal on the side and the tow connections on the front, I would say this was a tow behind on a big rig RV.

https://daytona.craigslist.org/ctd/d...691642344.html
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:35 PM   #7
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2004 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Here you go...

A 2003 LW200 4 pot model with just 61K miles on it. Given the decal on the side and the tow connections on the front, I would say this was a tow behind
^^^^ Yes , no doubt this was a "Toad" behind a motor home.

Only warning bell I see is that Auto Climate Control HVAC system that was used on the 03's. Some members report quite a few problems with that system. Saturn used a manual HVAC system for all other L's except 03.

However, I did see one apparently very late 02 that had that Auto Climate Control System in a JY a few years ago.

As far as the engine choice. The only engine in 05 was the 3.0. If you want to stay with a wagon, you have model years 2000-2004 to consider. No wagon in 05.
...
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:02 PM   #8
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Here you go...

A 2003 LW200 4 pot model with just 61K miles on it. Given the decal on the side and the tow connections on the front, I would say this was a tow behind on a big rig RV.

https://daytona.craigslist.org/ctd/d...691642344.html
Interesting - when we got our wagon in 01 one of my frustrations was that we couldn't get any of those options on a 4cyl car. We wanted heated cloth seats, which wasn't available in any trim - but on this car I see heated leather, fog lights and the auto HVAC - all of which were only available on V6 cars in 01.

I'm a bit concerned that it's a 2 owner car and now sitting at a dealer - but I guess that's minor...
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:09 PM   #9
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGraz View Post
Interesting - .... . We wanted heated cloth seats, which wasn't available in any trim - but on this car I see heated leather, fog lights and the auto HVAC - all of which were only available on V6 cars in 01.
...
Your idea of heated cloth seats is a great idea and unfortunately the car companies decided heated seats are only for leather seats. Perhaps heated cloth seats are available. I'm not aware of it. I've never had the 'luxury' of leather seats. I've read and heard of owners having freezing and burned butts from leather with electric heating the only way to overcome sitting on freezing leather. I felt it in a Hyundai with leather seats and welcomed the heat. With cloth seats, I don't feel any freezing or burns. I suspect many feel the same with cloth seats. Since they don't burn bottoms in summer heat, using the heater in winter warms everyone without frozen butts.

There are aftermarket seat heaters that can be inserted into cloth seats.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:46 AM   #10
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2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2004 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Agree with Fdryer, I have never seen a heated cloth seat in a L-Series.
...
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Our 2 current Volvos have heated cloth seats, and back when I had a MINI it was available in that car too. We both dislike leather - I had leather in a Olds Alero I had for a short time, didn't like it.

I know Saturn never offered it. We even discussed it with our sales guy when we bought the LW200 - and he agreed that it would be a great thing, as he didn't like leather either.
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:59 PM   #12
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Here you go.... now you can have cake and eat it (well butt warmed with cloth seats actually, but you can eat cake while sitting on them!)

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-628-04.../dp/B002U6IL9O
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Old 12-28-2019, 06:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

I thought it might be amusing to update this thread.

I did not get rid of the LW200, it's now at 268,500. Since this post from a little over a year ago, I've done the following work:
  • Did front brakes (pads & rotors) myself
  • Replaced leaking PS hose (mechanic)
  • Repaired sagging drivers seat (myself)
  • A couple oil changes (myself)

On Monday it goes into the shop again - I bought the cat-back replacement exhaust kit from rockauto (Walker) and my mechanic is going to put that in. He said the cat is OK.

But now there's a coolant leak - while I was doing the oil change today I looked around, and it seems to be the water pump. Looks like this is driven off the timing chain (which was replaced at the dealer on a recall around 100K miles). Doesn't look like an expensive part, but I'm betting there's significant labor. We'll see what my mechanic says. This may have to wait a little, I just spent $500 on my 08 Volvo.
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:45 PM   #14
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2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

It is a labor intensive job probably three hours of shop labor plus the tool to hold the balance shaft chain in place. The pump is reasonable and the small seal and gasket kit is inexpensive as well. I recommend replacing the thermostat at the same time, the thermostat housing has to come out to replace the pump.
...
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

That's about what I thought, based on my limited research. And the thermostat was just changed about 30-40K ago - knowing my mechanic, he wont want to change it again unless I absolutely insist (he's kind of a minimalist - only do the work that's absolutely needed)

I'm going to have to live with the leak for about a month. Will just have to check coolant level constantly. I do know that the low coolant light is working properly though!
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGraz View Post
That's about what I thought, based on my limited research. And the thermostat was just changed about 30-40K ago - knowing my mechanic, he wont want to change it again unless I absolutely insist (he's kind of a minimalist - only do the work that's absolutely needed)

I'm going to have to live with the leak for about a month...
The following link relates to my replacements of the water pump.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...ght=water+pump

If a mechanic will be doing the work for you then the information is probably unnecessary. In the event that he many not know of it, be sure to warn him to drain the water pump. There is a plug at the base of the pump's rear cover which must be opened to drain antifreeze found there and in the tube running from the back of the water pump, underneath the exhaust manifold, to the water inlet where the heater hoses attach. If the antifreeze mix is not drain first then I can guaranty that there will be a big mess to contend with afterwards. Further, one needs a small funnel with a 30 to 36 inch section of hose attached to drain that fluid cleanly down into a container below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGraz View Post
...Will just have to check coolant level constantly. I do know that the low coolant light is working properly though!
That is useful to know. I learned that mine was functioning correctly because a leak as well. It dropped the level down far enough to trigger the low coolant warning lamp!
...
358K miles - Holy canolli!
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Well, another $600 invested - my mechanic did the water pump and I supplied him with the walker cat-back replacement exhaust I got from RockAuto. (He only charged me an hour labor for the exhaust install)

He had originally told me to go to a muffler chain for the exhaust, and I refused - on the basis that they (Midas, Meineke, etc) would have a field day with my car - claiming it needed everything they sold. He agreed and then changed his mind about doing the job - and it was he who suggested that I just order the exhaust from RockAuto and bring it down for him to install. So it all worked out well.

I'm hoping that will be it for repairs for the rest of the winter. Snow tires are on, new wiper blades installed, and the el-cheapo heated seat covers are in . All fluids are fresh - I even replaced the burned out bulbs in the 3rd brake light (a recurring issue on the LW) So bring on the snow!
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

That's good news, PaulGraz, and it's great that you have a mechanic that's trustworthy and has clear mind!
...
358K miles - Holy canolli!
Biden/Harris predictions, '21 -'25: weak economy; weakened military; increased terrorism; an emboldened RED CHINA. Sadly, B & H are proving me correct...too bad.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

That is a lot cheaper than car payments.
...
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: Decision time - LW200

Well, a lot has changed since January (for all of us it seems).

I hung on as long as I could, but finances are forcing my hand - our LW200 has to be sold. I know I wont get much for it, but it'll take about $800/yr off my insurance bill.

If anyone out there is looking for a wagon, drop me a line.
...
----
~Paul
2001 LW200 (4th saturn owned) 276K+ Miles!
71 Volvo 1800E, 73 Volvo 1800ES, 08 Volvo C30, 11 Volvo V50
Gone on to other owners: 92 SL2, 95 SW2, 96 SC2
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