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Old 04-11-2021, 04:36 PM   #1
Chaz9496
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Default Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

I'm replacing the lock cylinder in my SL2. Well, I ran into a slight problem. Really that doesn't matter right now. The problem is that I removed the ignition switch from the back of the cylinder until I can get it out. For some reason it will turn over with a screw driver, but won't stay running. Why would that make any difference ?! Google states using a screw driver should work. Another thing, I removed the Air Bag plug while I was working on it just for a safety precaution. YouTube videos say it's wise, but I don't know why. The Air Bag wouldn't keep it from running, would it ? It's still unplugged. It may sound strange but sometimes the engineers come up with some weird things like that. Like an old Ford I had that I replaced the tach and there's two wires and one came loose that showed positive/negative on the back of the cluster and it wouldn't start either. Hooked it back up and it fired right up. Why that would matter, that's a good one too, but that's what it was. Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Does this model have an ECU Immobilizer ? If this is the problem, how do you get a replacement lock cylinder to work ?! Plugged the Air Bag back in and nothing, so it's not that. Gotta be a security issue. Looks like a possible Mess right now with the lock problem. Now what ?!

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-11-2021 at 06:07 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

'00-'02 have GM's passlock security. Have fun starting it with any part of the security system not 100%.
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

So whats the fix for it ?! Edit: Let me rephrase the problem. It tries to run, but quits. From what I just read, it disables the fuel to the injectors. The pump does run in the On position on the switch.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-11-2021 at 07:44 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Replace the lock cylinder. The passlock system is designed to prevent the removal of the lock cylinder as a theft preventative.
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Old 04-11-2021, 08:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

I have a new one, a Dorman part with keys. I didn't check to see if the keys were pre-cut or not. I guess you just reset the passlock system by following the instructions that don't look too hard.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-11-2021 at 08:06 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 04-12-2021, 04:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Without service manuals or ex Saturn tech around here, guessing on repairs can be either easy or a monumental headache. I think you headed for the latter.

Passlock security relies on two things, rotating the lock cylinder as it's being detected with the Passlock sensor and the bcm measuring the embedded resistor in the ignition switch. Both in synch as design requires the lock cylinder rotate when the resistor is measured to comply with security procedures. The lock cylinder rotation is detected with Hall effect sensors looking for magnets. In effect, the precise timing of turning the ignition switch simultaneously with the lock cylinder is monitored by the bcm for correct mechanical and electronic synchronization between Passlock detecting lock cylinder rotation and measuring the embedded resistor in the ign switch. Despite google searches revealing info, not everything should be accepted as gospel. The presidential election last Nov 6 is a perfect example of how things went sideways with accusations until the facts were brought out.

If you removed the ignition switch and turned it, all you did was fulfill half the security steps. The passlock sensor didn't detect lock cylinder rotation. The bcm seeing half the security steps, resistor in ign switch but not lock cylinder rotation is determined as incorrect - a theft attempt and should turn on security in a flashing sequence while disabling injector operation. Whether or not security is flashing is inconsequential as you found the engine starts then stops. Passlock disabled injector operation with or without security flashing. Electronically, the bcm just does what its programmed to do. In this case, protect against theft attempts. It's doing its job. You inadvertently introduced a theft attempt by only rotating the ign switch and not the lock cylinder simultaneously. Both must be rotated as designed for Passlock security to operate its GO/NO GO security check.

Passlock relearn isn't needed since you haven't replaced the ign switch. Each ign switch has a different resistor so no two are alike electrically. Physically, they're all alike. Service manuals stipulate when a relearn is needed such as replacing the ign switch, ecm/pcm or bcm. The lock cylinder and three wire Passlock sensor can be replaced without a Passlock relearn.
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

OK, here's the new situation. I had the locksmith replaced the ignition lock cylinder with the new one. She said that would be cheaper than re-keying the column cylinder. $80 is cheaper ? I had to get another column because of the condition of the original casing. She told me that relearn wasn't necessary but in case, told me what to do if it didn't run again. Well got everything back up, "Half-Assed" in case I have to take it down again. Yep, No Run. Didn't fix a thing, except the new lock cylinder, "Woopie !" Back to square one. The security light flashes constantly as long as the key is in the start position. The Air Bag being disabled has nothing to do with it ? It's still not back in yet. I wouldn't think so, but I don't know these things. My L200 ran because I had it disconnected before. We're talking about the cylinder and not the rear switch, correct, for the resistor ? It all comes down to, I should have just left it alone and just kept trying to turn it until it freed up or tried WD-40 instead of graphite, which didn't do anything to help. Maybe I should try the resistor in the passlock wire deal. The Techs I've talked to give me all different answers to fix it. Youtube video's show it can be bypassed with the resistor method. All I know is, I'm without wheels and I think I'm getting people tired of having to give me rides to work and back, just because I thought something was as easy as the video's showed for cylinder replacement, but really wasn't. It never is.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-14-2021 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Wording
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyne View Post
Replace the lock cylinder. The passlock system is designed to prevent the removal of the lock cylinder as a theft preventative.
I did, or the Locksmith did and No Go. I've still got nothing.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-14-2021 at 10:04 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Now that you stated security's flashing, this means Passlock detected a theft as described previously. Passlock, not the airbag system, is disabling injector operation. Don't believe it? Remove spark plugs. They're dry. Spark isn't affected.

Passlock relearn procedure; turn ignition ON for 10 minutes or until the security light turns off then cycle ignition OFF. Cycle the ignition switch (presumed along with the lock cylinder) ON again for another 10 minutes then cycle ignition OFF. Do this one more time for a total of three(3) ignition ON/OFF cycles, each lasting 10 minutes. The fourth cycle of turning on ignition is when the bcm learns the ignition switch resistor, adds into memory and should send an enable signal to the pcm to allow injector operation. Turning to START should start the engine. Security should be OFF during starting.
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Old 04-15-2021, 07:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

The security light doesn't turn off, It flashes constantly. I've gone thru steps to do this and so far without success. The only thing I can do next is the resistor method. A reliable tech on YouTube shows this is the easiest fix. They can swipe the car, they're welcome to it. This is a complete mess when nothing else works. Maybe I'm just not doing it correctly. This is the method I was using for relearn. Turn the ignition key to Run position for 10 min., off. Run position for 10 min, Off. On position for 10 min. Still stalls. Isn't this the correct procedure ? It was in a post You know of (fdryer) back in 2017 with another member with the same issue after changing the lock cylinder. I don't remember the member name that posted this method, but I wrote everything down. This is the same way that didn't work. Yes, I believe you about the Fuel Cut-Off. I also watched a YT video of someone doing the resistor method and stated, if you use the relearn method, you have to do this everytime you start it. I don't know how much truth there is in that. I have some resistors coming via Amazon if I can't figure a way to make the relearn work. I must not be doing it correctly or there's something else going on somewhere.
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Did you turn the key to start/crank during the relearn procedure? You turn the key to start and then release it to the on position and wait the ten minutes.
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

When you replaced the steering column, the Passlock three wire sensor is removable and transferable along with the lock cylinder and ignition switch. If one of these three parts are damaged or replaced, a Passlock relearn is required so the bcm can remarry all the parts electronically, including replacing the pcm or bcm.

Review all that you've done carefully. Something is missing in your replies and recollections of this repair that is not allowing a relearn to proceed. From my understanding, Passlock must be in operating condition before cutting the white wire in the three wire Passlock sensor on the steering column. I have not come across any thread(s) with a member stating successful bypassing with security flashing then cutting the white wire. If you are implying this procedure, good luck. I do not know if the white wire is cut before turning on ignition or afterwards. I don't follow those threads.

As a side topic, I had the pleasure of being locked out of my L300 several times in the past after installation of an aftermarket remote start system. It works when used except when an unexpected situation occurred when remote starting tried cranking then stopped just before I got into the car to drive away. I learned later that the timer to use the starter is adjustable from default to selecting 1 second, 1.5, etc. This adjustment can accommodate an aging vehicle, intermittent starting, diesel engines requiring several seconds and low temperatures making engines slower to turn over. In my case the NYC winters varied enough that a 0.5 second timed start wasn't enough time to get the engine turned over for ignition to fire the engine. I learned the hard way that up to the three starting attempts are made by remote start to get the engine running. Each start bypasses Passlock so the Passlock sensor detecting lock cylinder rotation and ignition switch resistor are bypassed for the duration of remote starting until the ignition key is inserted and turned to the ON/ RUN position when the remote start circuit is disabled and Passlock security is returned. I attempted to startup during the second remote start sequence when the circuit cut itself off and enabled security. I saw security flashing with the engine briefly starting then dying. No restart occurred - I can use the starter to turn over the engine but with security flashing the engine won't run. I had to sit there with ignition on for 10 minutes until security stopped flashing, shut off ignition then try restarting. This is tamper mode of Passlock and worked. Later, I learned to press the brake pedal when remote start failed to disable it and return Passlock to normal mode, disabled since I use my remote to unlock doors/disable Passlock simultaneously. Pressing the brake pedal after the first remote start attempt fails to get the engine running disables the remaining remote start sequences. I can then startup and drive away. Once I figured out what went wrong, I opened the manual and changed the start timer to a longer time, 1 second. This was enough for very cold temperature starts with a sluggish motor. None of this info was known after remote start was installed by a shop. I learned the hard way. I may have tried the relearn process too during this phase but it didn't change anything as Passlock works. The remote start system with a bypass relay interrupts Passlock temporarily but returns Passlock when it fails to get the engine running. Pressing the brake pedal disables the remote start circuit at any time when its used.

You're not alone with Passlock issues but when understood, it's the cheapest anti theft system without buying an aftermarket alarm system. It has its quirks like I found out but I see no need to disable Passlock even with a vehicle no one wants to steal. It's just a noise maker if I inadvertently trigger the alarm system with horns and lights flashing to let anyone within hearing range that I have an alarm system in my old car. No one knows the injectors are disabled. As a noise maker, it informs anyone that even an old car still has an alarm.

Hopefully you find something wrong to allow a Passlock relearn. Some here state they wait 10+ minutes for each cycle before a relearn works. Perhaps a 12 minute cycle may work otherwise I think there's a wiring to Passlock sensor, damage to the sensor or ignition switch fault preventing a relearn procedure. It's usually something that's in front of you and over looked.
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Success with the second relearn try. For some reason the security light went off after the second cycle and not the third like it says. Just for fun since the light stopped flashing, I tried it and it worked. Maybe it only needs two cycles of 10 min. Either way, it runs. I tried it 2 more times to make sure it would keep starting. Now, here's something else I noticed. There's the cable that clips to the bottom of the lock cylinder that must control the release for the shifter. When I removed it to take the old lock cylinder out, the top of the pin that goes into the bottom hole had been sheered off about 3/4 of the way. I'm wondering if that's why the cylinder wouldn't come out the first time. Anyway, I'm going to need another cable. What's the cable called ?! I looked up neutral safety switch cable and that's not it. I can turn the ignition by pressing the cable end in that shows in the front of the housing. My clips are broken off and so is the one I got the column out of at the yard, so it won't clip into the cylinder housing. I could probably zip tie it but I need one that the pin's not broken off first. I just wondered what the name of it is. Thanks.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 04-15-2021 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Wording
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Good to know a second Passlock relearn procedure restored factory security to allow normal starting.

I do not have any S-series service manuals for reference. Perhaps members here can offer help. I'm not familiar with your descriptions of a pin and cable assembly. The fact that you determined it broke may very well be the reason for not being able to remove the lock cylinder. This part is most likely either buried somewhere with online parts searches confined to GM inventory with less detailed parts lists or junk yards. Is it possible to ignore replacing it? Does the ignition switch operate fine as is?

In general, the steering column lock prevents the steering wheel from turning and operates from the ignition switch/lock assembly. We all know this as inserting the ignition key and unable to turn it when the steering wheel was previously left turned off center. When the ign key was removed, if the steering wheel was turned a few degrees, say grabbing the steering wheel as a handle when getting out of the car, a distinctive click may be heard. The is would be the steering column lock engaging. When inserting the ign key to turn it fails, the steering column lock is engaged, preventing the ign switch from turning to ACC or ON/RUN position. Turning the steering wheel away from its locked position releases tension on the ign switch/lock assembly to allow it to turn to ACC or ON/RUN. I think this is the park lock mechanism. An electrical switch on the steering column (lock cylinder?) operates the brake transmission switch interlock (BTSI).

The BTSI prevents automatics from shifting out of Park position unless the brake pedal is depressed when ign is ON. In ACC position, the shift lever can move. A switch detects ignition switch position and informs the bcm whether or not to enable the BTSI solenoid in the shifter assembly to lock or unlock the shifter from moving out pf Park position. There's another lock preventing the ign switch from returning to the OFF position when the shifter is not in Park position.
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bad Lock Cylinder/Won't Run

Park lock cable assembly
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